Why do you want people invested in gold and not make any money?

為什麼你希望人們投資於黃金而不賺錢？

The only people who make money out of Bitcoin are those few people at the beginning, everyone else is not making money right now, 92% of people that have invested in Bitcoin have made money at the current market prices.

從比特幣中賺錢的只有一開始的那幾個人，其他人現在都沒有賺錢，92%投資比特幣的人在目前的市場價格下都賺了錢。

You're just saying for people to invest in Bitcoin because you're one of the early people you're getting people to invest so you can make money.

你只是說讓人們投資比特幣，因為你是早期的人之一，你讓人們投資，這樣你就可以賺錢了。

Hi my name is Sophia and I'm welcoming you to the second episode of nasty debates today, we have a very interesting topic to debate Bitcoin versus gold.

大家好，我叫索菲亞，歡迎大家收看今天的第二集《討厭的辯論》，我們有一個非常有趣的話題來辯論比特幣與黃金的關係。

What is better, what is safer and what should you invest in on my left?

什麼是更好的，什麼是更安全的，你應該在我的左邊投資什麼？

I have Rockwell shot.

我有洛克威爾的鏡頭。

Hi I'm Rockwell shaw co founder of Invisible College a web through university and I believe Bitcoin is a much better asset than gold.

嗨，我是Rockwell shaw，是Invisible College的聯合創始人，這是一所網絡大學，我相信比特幣是一種比黃金更好的資產。

And on my right I have Alex Trebek defending gold.

而在我的右邊，我有亞歷克斯-特雷貝克在捍衛黃金。

Yeah.

是的。

Hi everyone I'm Alex I own gold and I believe gold is here to stay.

大家好，我是亞歷克斯，我擁有黃金，我相信黃金將繼續存在。

The structure of the debate is fairly simple.

辯論的結構相當簡單。

Both Rockwell and Alex have 30 seconds to defend their arguments and our audience can either who if they agree with their statements or boo if they disagree with their statements now Rockwell you may open the debate Alex, I gotta be honest with you, I have no idea why we're having this debate.

洛克威爾和亞歷克斯都有30秒的時間為自己的論點辯護，我們的觀眾如果同意他們的說法，可以選擇誰，如果不同意他們的說法，可以選擇噓聲，現在洛克威爾你可以開始辯論了，亞歷克斯，我得跟你說實話，我不知道為什麼我們要進行這場辯論。

If you look at a price appreciation of Bitcoin versus gold over the last 10 years?

如果你看一下過去10年裡比特幣相對於黃金的價格升值？

Bitcoin has appreciated over 700,000% Where gold is appreciated 15% on top of that.

比特幣已經升值超過700,000%，而黃金則在此基礎上升值15%。

If you actually look at the market caps like the total value of each market, the gold market cap is over $12 trillion.

如果你真正看一下每個市場的總價值等市值，黃金的市值超過12萬億美元。

But the Bitcoin market cap is like 607 $100 billion.

但比特幣的市值好像是607千億美元。

When you think about how much more room Bitcoin has to grow.

當你想到比特幣還有多大的發展空間。

It's a no contest.

這是一個不爭的事實。

Okay Rockwell but you're missing one very important point over time.

好吧，洛克威爾，但你錯過了一個非常重要的時間點。

Gold has appreciated.

黃金已經升值。

The price of gold was $300 in 2001.

2001年，黃金的價格是300美元。

The price of gold today is $1,800.

今天的黃金價格是1,800美元。

So actually if you look at it, if you held onto gold you would have made 8% every single year.

是以，實際上如果你看一下，如果你持有黃金，你每年都會有8%的收益。

That's a really really good return.

這真是一個非常非常好的回報。

You know most people think That gold is slow and steady but you can see that most of gold's price is actually speculation.

你知道大多數人認為，黃金是緩慢而穩定的，但你可以看到，黃金的大部分價格實際上是投機。

Do you know what the year 1730 and the year 2010 have in common.

你知道1730年和2010年有什麼共同點嗎？

The price of gold did not change.

黃金的價格沒有變化。

If you invested $100 in 1730 you would still have $100 280 years later.

如果你在1730年投資100美元，280年後你仍然會有100美元。

If you actually invested in the stock market and got index based returns 8% per year.

如果你真的投資於股票市場，並得到基於指數的每年8%的回報。

Like you're talking about after 280 years you'd have over $4 billion.

就像你說的280年後你會有超過40億美元。

$4 billion.

40億美元。

Okay guys hold on hold on hold on before you kill each other.

好了，夥計們，在你們自相殘殺之前，堅持住，堅持住。

I'm gonna take a little bit of a break and then tell you about this guy Rockwell actually is the newest teacher, Donna's academy and he's teaching something incredible.

我要稍微休息一下，然後告訴你這個傢伙羅克韋爾實際上是最新的老師，唐娜的學院，他正在教一些不可思議的東西。

Can you guess?

你能猜到嗎？

He's teaching Bitcoin, He's teaching a master class on how to understand Bitcoin.

他在教比特幣，他在教一個關於如何理解比特幣的大師班。

Probably the most comprehensive class on Bitcoin in the world.

可能是世界上最全面的關於比特幣的課程。

Bitcoin's price is very volatile.

比特幣的價格是非常不穩定的。

It can have very bad days, it can have very good days.

它可以有非常糟糕的日子，它也可以有非常好的日子。

If you're going to be a Bitcoin investor you need to stay strong even during the very bad days.

如果你要成為一個比特幣投資者，你需要保持堅強，即使在非常糟糕的日子裡。

Remember you're a long term investor.

記住你是一個長期的投資者。

So hostile and also is teaching you how not to get screwed in crypto 101, you wanna tell them about the class.

是以，敵意，也是在教你如何在加密貨幣101中不被坑，你要告訴他們這個課。

Absolutely.

絕對的。

So in the Bitcoin master class we're gonna teach you about this transformational technology that's happening really.

是以，在比特幣大師班上，我們要教你這個正在發生的變革性技術，真的。

If you want to get involved in Bitcoin, if you want to invest in Cryptocurrency, you need to know how to do it safely.

如果你想參與比特幣，如果你想投資加密貨幣，你需要知道如何安全地進行投資。

You need to know how to do it thoughtfully.

你需要知道如何深思熟慮地做這件事。

You need to know what percentage of your portfolio should you be putting in?

你需要知道你的投資組合中應該投入多大比例的資金？

Where should you be buying it?

你應該在哪裡購買？

How should you be storing it?

你應該如何儲存它？

We're going to teach you all of that and more and remember this is not a class actually right, this is a community.

我們將教你所有這些，還有更多，記住這不是一個班級，實際上是一個社區。

So if I take your class, I will be surrounded with like hundreds of other people that also want to understand but going also wanna understand crypto and we become part of your community, correct?

所以，如果我上了你的課，我身邊就會有成百上千的其他人，他們也想了解，但也想了解加密貨幣，我們會成為你社區的一部分，對嗎？

Absolutely.

絕對的。

We're here to support you.

我們在這裡支持你。

You're here to support.

你在這裡是為了支持。

We're here to support, We're here to support.

我們在這裡支持，我們在這裡支持。

That's cool.

這很好。

Okay.

好的。

The classes available right here on this link.

這些課程可在此鏈接中找到。

All right back to the debate.

好了，回到辯論中來。

So Rocco, what I think this debate is actually about whether you're about stability or volatility, Gold has proven to stand the test of time.

是以，羅科，我認為這場辯論實際上是關於你是穩定還是波動的問題，事實證明，黃金經得起時間的考驗。

In fact, gold was first used in 4000 BC.

事實上，黃金在公元前4000年就被首次使用。

The ancient Greeks used it, the Romans used it, the Italians used it and we still use it today.

古希臘人使用它，羅馬人使用它，意大利人使用它，我們今天仍然使用它。

So gold has proven to stand the test of time.

是以，事實證明，黃金經得起時間的考驗。

Bitcoin has stood the test of time of 13 years.

比特幣已經經受了13年的時間考驗。

It hasn't even been through a major recession yet.

它甚至還沒有經歷過一次大的經濟衰退。

Gold is the one that I would bet for the long term and I think gold is the one that everyone listening will bet on for the long term.

黃金是我長期押注的對象，我認為黃金是每個聽眾都會長期押注的對象。

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up gold history because gold has a really long history of doing nothing.

是的，我很高興你提出了黃金的歷史，因為黃金有一個非常長的歷史，就是什麼都不做。

So if you like not making any money on your money, if you like having the same amount of money today as you will 10 years from now invest in gold.

是以，如果你喜歡在你的錢上不賺任何錢，如果你喜歡今天的錢和10年後的錢一樣多，就投資黃金。

I think that's a great idea.

我認為這是個好主意。

But if you actually want to make returns on your investment, as most investors do, then gold is a terrible asset plus and it has a very long history of demonstrating that so Rockwell, this is where I think you're wrong because when people look at investing, they also look at preserving what they own, not just about growing, what they, When it comes to any recession over the course of the last 200 years, there is a common thing that everyone has done.

但是，如果你真的想在你的投資上獲得回報，就像大多數投資者那樣，那麼黃金是一個可怕的資產加，它有一個非常長的歷史證明，所以羅克韋爾，這是我認為你錯了，因為當人們看投資時，他們也看保存他們擁有的東西，不僅僅是關於增長，他們，當涉及到過去200年的任何經濟衰退時，有一個共同的事情，大家都做過。

They have taken their money and they put it in gold.

他們拿著自己的錢，把它放在黃金裡。

Gold provides stability that the everyday person needs in order to preserve their wealth and to preserve their life.

黃金提供了日常人所需要的穩定性，以保存他們的財富和維護他們的生活。

Just focusing on long term returns is not what every day you need to pay your bills, you need that money available to you to use.

只是關注長期回報，並不是每天都需要支付賬單，你需要這些錢可供你使用。

So it's interesting you talk about long-term stability.

是以，你談到長期穩定是很有意思的。

If they pull up the graph of the gold prices, you'll see major drops in the prices multiple times, including in the 80s and the 2000s.

如果他們調出黃金價格的圖表，你會看到價格多次大跌，包括在80年代和2000年代。

And so how can you say that there's long-term stability when you see 80% price depreciation over these time periods.

是以，當你在這些時間段看到80%的價格貶值時，你怎麼能說有長期的穩定性。

In fact, if you bought gold In the early 1980s, you still haven't made any money and frankly, if you want something safe and you want something secure just by inflation adjusted government bonds, which is what most rational well versed investors do.

事實上，如果你在20世紀80年代初買了黃金，你仍然沒有賺到任何錢，坦率地說，如果你想要安全的東西，你想要安全的東西，只要通過通貨膨脹調整的政府債券，這就是大多數理性的精通的投資者所做的。

So Rockwell, let's talk a little bit about what Bitcoin was created to do.

所以羅克韋爾，讓我們來談一談比特幣的創建目的。

Bitcoin was created to be a currency, but we don't see it being used as a currency today, interestingly, gold has been used as a currency, It has been used for many, many other things as well.

比特幣被創造為一種貨幣，但我們今天沒有看到它被用作貨幣，有趣的是，黃金一直被用作貨幣，它也被用來做很多很多其他事情。

It's used for jewelry.

它被用來製作珠寶。

It's used for electronics.

它被用於電子產品。

You know there are so many things that gold can be used for.

你知道有這麼多東西可以用在黃金上。

I can't see the things that Bitcoin are being used for.

我看不出比特幣被用來做什麼事情。

Yeah that's funny you say that because I just saw a headline where we send $100 million dollars to Ukraine to help fight the war through cryptocurrencies including Bitcoin.

是的，你這麼說很有趣，因為我剛剛看到一個頭條新聞，我們通過包括比特幣在內的加密貨幣向烏克蘭發送了1億美元，幫助打仗。

So one of the things that's amazing about Bitcoin is that travels across the world in an instant.

是以，比特幣的一個神奇之處在於，它可以在瞬間穿越世界。

Now I understand your point it's not a currency yet but over the next 100 years as Bitcoin grows and plateaus and gets a stable price eventually it could become a currency until then enjoy the price appreciation.

現在我明白你的觀點，它還不是一種貨幣，但在未來的100年裡，隨著比特幣的增長和平穩，得到一個穩定的價格，最終它可以成為一種貨幣，直到那時享受價格升值。

So Rocco, there's one point you're not mentioning about Bitcoin which is it's amazing that you can send Bitcoin across borders and help people.

是以，Rocco，有一點你沒有提到關於比特幣的問題，那就是你可以跨越國界發送比特幣並幫助人們，這很令人驚訝。

But the truth is today you cannot withdraw Bitcoin in large amounts.

但事實是今天你無法大量提取比特幣。

In fact a lot of places a lot of crypto exchanges only let you withdraw Up to $50,000 By the way, the price of Bitcoin was higher than $50,000.

事實上很多地方很多加密貨幣交易所只讓你提取最多5萬美元 順便說一句，比特幣的價格高於5萬美元。

So that means at some point you can't even withdraw one Bitcoin.

所以這意味著在某些時候你甚至不能提取一個比特幣。

So what's the point of transferring all this money around the world if you can't even draw it out and use it.

是以，如果你甚至不能把它抽出來使用，那麼把所有這些錢轉移到世界各地有什麼意義呢。

Oh You know it said like somebody who's actually never transacted a Cryptocurrency before as somebody who routinely does, I can tell you centralized exchanges definitely let you withdraw more than $50,000.

哦，你知道它說的是像一個實際上從未交易過加密貨幣的人，作為一個經常交易的人，我可以告訴你集中式交易所肯定會讓你提取超過5萬美元。

Not all of us have $50,000 a day to withdraw from our bank account.

不是所有的人每天都有5萬美元可以從我們的銀行賬戶中提取。

And I think that's one of the really important points.

我想這是真正重要的一點。

You know when I think when people sit down today and think about Bitcoin or gold, what they're thinking about is what do I have access to today and I think today the challenges if I want to start investing in Bitcoin there are many different hoops that I need to go down in order to start gold today.

你知道當我認為當人們今天坐下來思考比特幣或黃金時，他們所想的是我今天能得到什麼，我認為今天的挑戰是如果我想開始投資比特幣，有許多不同的圈套，我需要走下去，以便今天開始黃金。

I can walk to my bank and I have an ability to start investing in gold.

我可以走到我的銀行，我有能力開始投資黃金。

Do you still walk into your bank?

你還會走進你的銀行嗎？

What are you?

你是什麼人？

A boomer?

一個潮人？

Ouch.

哎喲。

Unbelievable.

難以置信。

I think it's quite clear if you want to invest in assets of any kind, whether it's gold or stocks or Cryptocurrency, there are many ways to do that cash out so far.

我認為很清楚，如果你想投資任何種類的資產，無論是黃金、股票還是加密貨幣，到目前為止有很多方法可以做到兌現。

Robin Hood coin base, there's lots of places that you can go within a couple of minutes, set up an account and buy these assets in terms of ease of use and in terms of your, your accessibility to them, they're all equivalent at this point.

羅賓漢幣基地，有很多地方，你可以在幾分鐘內去，建立一個賬戶，併購買這些資產，在易用性方面，在你，你對它們的可及性方面，它們在這一點上都是等同的。

So Rockwell.

所以洛克威爾。

You talk about all these different apps but how many people actually use them, how many people actually even heard of them at this stage?

你談論所有這些不同的應用程序，但有多少人真正使用它們，有多少人在這個階段實際上甚至聽說過它們？

You know, I think when it comes down to many, many people today, they rely on 1-2 apps to do everything right when it comes to their money.

你知道，我認為當今天很多很多人歸結起來，當涉及到他們的錢時，他們依靠1-2個應用程序來做一切正確的事情。

And so the concept of just starting with all these apps they don't know they don't trust is a big step and I think many people are not ready to do that yet.

是以，剛開始使用所有這些他們不知道、不信任的應用程序的概念是一個很大的步驟，我認為許多人還沒有準備好這樣做。

You've never heard of Paypal like seriously you might actually be a boomer.

你從來沒有聽說過支付寶，就像認真的你可能真的是一個潮人。

I mean There's there's so many apps, it's so accessible.

我的意思是，有這麼多的應用程序，它是如此的方便。

In fact over 50 million Americans.

事實上，超過5000萬美國人。

Transact with Cryptocurrency today globally.

今天在全球範圍內使用加密貨幣進行交易。

We're talking about hundreds of millions of users actually have access and use crypto today.

我們正在談論數以億計的用戶今天實際接觸和使用加密貨幣。

So one of the important things when it comes to investing for me and I think for many others is around safety.

是以，當談到投資時，對我來說，我認為對許多其他人來說，重要的事情之一是圍繞安全。

You know when I think about investing my money I want to ensure that it's somewhere trustworthy that I have a fallback that it's reliable and I think what gold has been able to show is that it has regulations around it.

你知道，當我考慮投資我的錢的時候，我想確保它是在一個值得信賴的地方，我有一個退路，它是可靠的，我認為黃金已經能夠表明，它周圍有法規。

If someone's broken in gold or trader in gold they have a whole system of how they should behave.

如果有人在黃金中破了產，或者是黃金交易商，他們有一套完整的系統，知道自己應該如何行事。

Bitcoin they do not yet necessarily have a system in place to hold people accountable and I don't know about you but I want to be able to know that I have a system that I can trust.

比特幣他們還不一定有一個系統來追究人們的責任，我不知道你怎麼想，但我希望能夠知道我有一個可以信任的系統。

It's funny the things that you're saying, I'm not quite sure that you've researched them fully.

你說的這些事情很有意思，我不太確定你是否對它們進行了充分的研究。

100% many of the gold E.

100%的許多金E。

T.

T.

S.

S.

Are unregulated, You don't actually know that there are gold bars, somewhere in some vault backing up what the E.

是不受監管的，你實際上不知道有金條，在某個金庫的某個地方支持著E的內容。

T.

T.

F.

F.

Audit actually says.

審計實際上說。

Additionally, when you're talking about centralized exchanges, like Coinbase, Coinbase is a highly regulated company.

此外，當你在談論集中式交易所，如Coinbase時，Coinbase是一家受到高度監管的公司。

They have to have all sorts of licenses to operate.

他們必須有各種各樣的許可證才能經營。

They have to work with the sec actively all the time when you're talking about safety, When you're talking about security, many of the centralized exchanges are far better regulated than these goldie PDFs that you might be investing in.

當你談論安全問題時，他們必須一直積極地與證券公司合作，當你談論安全問題時，許多集中式交易所的監管遠比你可能投資的這些金子般的PDF更好。

So Rockwell who found a Bitcoin.

所以，找到比特幣的羅克韋爾。

So Alex who found in gold.

是以，在黃金中發現的亞歷克斯。

Mm hmm.

嗯，嗯。

So the fact is that gold physically exists, gold is here in the world and we can actually find gold.

是以，事實是，黃金實際存在，黃金就在這個世界上，我們實際上可以找到黃金。

Right?

對嗎？

With Bitcoin?

用比特幣？

We have claims that someone created it, but no one is quite sure who that person is.

我們有說法是有人創造了它，但沒有人很確定這個人是誰。

We don't know the ethics of that person.

我們不知道那個人的道德觀。

We don't know whether there was another agenda and we don't know whether those people who have essentially accumulated wealth through Bitcoin may have other purposes or other things that they do.

我們不知道是否有另一個議程，我們不知道那些基本上通過比特幣積累財富的人是否可能有其他目的或做其他事情。

There is no visibility at all over this.

在這一點上，完全沒有可見性。

The beautiful thing about Bitcoin is that it stands on its own, it doesn't need a founder.

比特幣的美麗之處在於它是獨立存在的，它不需要創始人。

The code is open source.

該代碼是開放源代碼的。

It's auditable and that's the point that if we want to live in a world that is more decentralized and we need a system that's not reliant on a human being or a set of human beings.

它是可審計的，這就是重點，如果我們想生活在一個更加分散的世界，我們需要一個不依賴人或一組人的系統。

It doesn't really matter what the ethics or who this person was, what matters is what the code enables all of the use cases that's building a new money, a new digital decentralized money that's tamper proof from centralized control.

道德規範或這個人是誰其實並不重要，重要的是代碼能使所有的用例建立一個新的貨幣，一個新的數字去中心化的貨幣，可以防止中央控制的篡改。

So one point we need to talk about when it comes to Bitcoin and it comes to gold is the number of scams that get reported day after day after day.

是以，當涉及到比特幣和涉及到黃金時，我們需要談論的一點是日復一日被報道的騙局數量。

You read about someone getting scammed, you read about people losing all their savings, there is no accountability with Bitcoin when it comes to scams and that is the reason why people need to be careful about Bitcoin.

你讀到有人被騙，你讀到有人失去了他們所有的積蓄，當涉及到詐騙時，比特幣沒有責任，這就是人們需要對比特幣謹慎的原因。

That's the reason why established ways to invest have been able to eliminate a lot of this fraud, a lot of these scams, why should anyone invest in Bitcoin when there's so many scams going on, buying, holding Bitcoin is an incredibly safe activity but just like any technology, there's many sides to this, I get phone calls almost every day about some expired warranty from my car that I don't have right scams are prevalent in all areas of our society, not just Cryptocurrency, unfortunately it seems like you've been brainwashed by headlines and sensationalist news media.

這就是為什麼既定的投資方式能夠消除很多這種欺詐，很多這種騙局的原因，既然有這麼多騙局，為什麼還要投資比特幣，購買，持有比特幣是一個非常安全的活動，但就像任何技術一樣。這有很多方面，我幾乎每天都會接到電話，說我的車有一些過期的保修，但我並沒有。

Yes, there are scams in crypto but there are scams everywhere and yes you can 100% invest in crypto and be safe.

是的，加密貨幣有騙局，但到處都有騙局，是的，你可以100%地投資於加密貨幣並保證安全。

So I think 11 point, so we're not talking about is the impact of Bitcoin on the environment, you know today when we reimagine things, we think about how we can do things that are better for the environment, not worse, but we can see the carbon footprint of Bitcoin, we can see the Bitcoin mining hurts the environment, so why do you want to contribute to more environmental damage rather than trying to improve the environment?

所以我認為11點，所以我們不是在討論是比特幣對環境的影響，你知道今天當我們重新想象事情的時候，我們會考慮如何做對環境更好的事情，而不是更糟，但是我們可以看到比特幣的碳足跡，我們可以看到比特幣開採對環境的傷害，那麼為什麼你想促成更多的環境破壞而不是試圖改善環境？

So one of the fantastic things about Bitcoin is that over half of the energy used to mine Bitcoin comes from renewable energy sources.

是以，比特幣的一個奇妙之處在於，用於開採比特幣的一半以上的能源來自於可再生能源。

In fact, they're building it in areas that oftentimes our remote villages or places where you wouldn't necessarily see this infrastructure and one day, many years from now past the year 2040 when all the Bitcoin mining stops that infrastructure will remain and can be repurposed to build local community energy resources and frankly contribute to the energy pipeline in the world.

事實上，他們正在建設的地區，往往是我們的偏遠村莊或你不一定能看到這種基礎設施的地方，有一天，從現在起到2040年，當所有的比特幣開採停止時，這些基礎設施將保留下來，並可以重新利用，建立當地的社區能源資源，坦率地說，為世界的能源管道作出貢獻。

Well that was an intense debate now, before we let the audience vote, I would like to hear your closing arguments Alex, So today we've had good points from both sides and I think from my perspective it's not saying you can't invest in Bitcoin or you can't invest in gold, I think what you really need to decide is this, am I for stability or am I for volatility?

好了，這是一場激烈的辯論，在我們讓觀眾投票之前，我想聽聽你的結束語，亞歷克斯，所以今天我們雙方都有很好的觀點，我認為從我的角度來看，不是說你不能投資比特幣或不能投資黃金，我認為你真正需要決定的是，我是為了穩定還是為了波動？