The migrant experience, it's a powerful one.

移民的經驗，這是一個強大的經驗。

In an environment where we're talking about global inclusive growth, this entire group

在我們談論全球包容性增長的環境中，這整個集團

of people is being left behind and ignored.

的人正在被拋在後面，被忽視。

A migrant worker is defined as someone who lives and works in a country where they don't

移徙工人被定義為在一個他們不在的國家生活和工作的人。

hold citizenship.

擁有公民身份。

And some 67% of migrant workers reside in high-income countries.

而大約67%的移民工人居住在高收入國家。

That's nearly 114 million people.

這相當於近1.14億人。

So, what are the ways their presence bolsters an economy, and what are the challenges that

那麼，他們的存在以何種方式支持經濟，又有哪些挑戰？

lie ahead?

擺在面前的是什麼？

The growing speed of economic globalization has created more migrant workers than ever

經濟全球化的速度越來越快，創造了比以往更多的移民工人

before.

之前。

As long as there's been history, people have been going overseas to work.

只要有歷史，人們就會去海外工作。

And it's connected with the economic cycles as well.

而且它也與經濟週期有關。

That's Sri Jegarajah.

這就是斯里-傑格拉傑。

He's a Singapore-based senior correspondent for CNBC and has covered international markets

他是CNBC駐新加坡的高級記者，曾報道國際市場。

for over 15 years.

超過15年的時間。

Sri, it's really great to have you here.

斯里，你能來這裡真是太好了。

It's my pleasure, Nessa.

這是我的榮幸，內薩。

There's a lot that we can unpack about migrant workers right, but we're focusing now on

關於移民工人，我們有很多東西可以解讀，但我們現在的重點是

their impact on the global economy.

他們對全球經濟的影響。

And seeing that many are concentrated in wealthy countries, is it just the appeal of well-paying

而看到許多人都集中在富裕國家，是否只是因為高薪的吸引力？

jobs that's motivating them?

激勵他們的工作是什麼？

There are a number of push and pull factors.

有一些推動和拉動的因素。

What it comes down to is the dynamics of the international labor markets.

它歸結為國際勞動力市場的動態。

And it's exactly like that, it's exactly like a market.

而它恰恰是這樣的，它恰恰是一個市場。

You go where you get the best price for your unit of labor, whether you are skilled, unskilled

你去你的勞動組織、部門得到最好的價格，無論你是熟練的，還是非熟練的

or semi-skilled worker.

或半熟練工人。

That dictates the flow.

這就決定了流量的大小。

Then of course, globalization.

然後，當然是全球化。

The increasingly interconnected world has just accelerated those trends.

日益相互關聯的世界只是加速了這些趨勢。

The barriers to entry have come down in the workforce.

勞動力的准入門檻已經降低了。

There are the demographics involved.

這裡面涉及到人口統計學的問題。

Fertility rates have been falling, low birth rates, higher ageing population, and that

生育率一直在下降，出生率低，人口老齡化加劇，而且

depletes the available pool of labour, creates the dynamics for entrants into the economy.

消耗了可用的勞動力，為進入經濟的人創造了動力。

But who are the biggest drivers of a migrant workforce?

但誰是移民勞動力的最大驅動力？

In 2020, the top three sources for remittances, which is the money workers send home, were

2020年，匯款（即工人寄回家的錢）的前三個來源是

the United States, United Arab Emirates and Saudi Arabia, all high-income countries.

美國、阿拉伯聯合酋長國和沙特阿拉伯，都是高收入國家。

In the same year, the top 5 recipient countries for remittances inflows were India, China,

同年，匯款流入的前5個接受國是印度、中國。

Mexico, the Philippines and Egypt, all low to middle-income countries.

墨西哥、菲律賓和埃及，都是中低收入國家。

In fact, India has received the highest number of remittances since 2008.

事實上，自2008年以來，印度收到的匯款數量是最高的。

The foreign exchange factor is a big driver in terms of the flow.

就流量而言，外匯因素是一個很大的驅動力。

So if you take the Singapore example, many foreign workers, migrant workers who work

是以，如果你以新加坡為例，許多外國工人，工作的移民工人

in the construction industry, in the shipbuilding industry, from Bangladesh and from India for

在建築業、造船業中，來自孟加拉國和印度的工人們正在努力工作。

example, Sri Lanka too, come here because they can remit their salary in Singapore dollar

例如，斯里蘭卡人也來這裡，因為他們可以用新加坡元匯出他們的工資。

terms back to their families, which will inevitably mean more currency in their bank account,

條款回到他們的家庭，這將不可避免地意味著他們的銀行賬戶上有更多貨幣。

better standard of living for their family.

為他們的家庭提供更好的生活標準。

Is it just the pay that's drawing them?

吸引他們的僅僅是薪酬嗎？

It's not necessarily a case of country A, which is lower to middle income, workers there

這不一定是A國的情況，它是中低收入國家，那裡的工人

looking at country B, which is at a higher stage of economic development, better prospects,

看看B國，它處於經濟發展的更高階段，前景更好。

higher exchange rate and thinking, I'll have a piece of that.

更高的匯率，並想，我也要分一杯羹。

It is across different countries of different rates of economic development.

這是在不同的經濟發展速度的國家之間。

An example was the U.K. in the 80s.

一個例子是80年代的英國。

There were many British construction workers who went to work in Germany, when the Berlin

有許多英國建築工人去德國工作，當柏林

Wall came down during the East-West reunification, because there were opportunities.

在東西方統一期間，牆倒了，因為有機會。

So that's an example of the higher-income country, not necessarily a developing country,

所以這是一個高收入國家的例子，不一定是開發中國家。

where the workforce and labor have shifted.

勞動力和勞工已經轉移的地方。

It's a broad global theme that manifests itself in different ways across the income

這是一個廣泛的全球主題，在不同的收入中以不同的方式表現出來。

spectrum.

頻譜。

What are some of the commonalities of low-income countries who are providing these migrant

提供這些移民的低收入國家有哪些共同點？

workers?

工人？

Countries like Indonesia, Bangladesh, like the Philippines, they're still trying to

像印度尼西亞、孟加拉國、菲律賓這樣的國家，他們仍在努力

move higher up the value chain.

向價值鏈的高端發展。

They're at that stage of economic development where it's a lot of agriculture, a lot of

他們正處於經濟發展的階段，那裡有很多農業，有很多

manufacturing.

製造。

And they have not yet fully developed a higher-value tech industry, for example.

而且他們還沒有完全發展出更高價值的科技產業，比如說。

So those workers, who may even want to transition, may not be able to do so because the infrastructure

是以，那些甚至可能想要轉型的工人，可能無法做到這一點，因為基礎設施

isn't there, the upscaling isn't there and they are stuck.

不在那裡，升級不在那裡，他們被卡住了。

And they see the prospects, with the skills that they have, are better in other countries

他們看到，以他們所擁有的技能，在其他國家的前景會更好。

within Asia, Singapore, Malaysia for example.

在亞洲範圍內，例如新加坡、馬來西亞。

And they gravitate there.

他們就會向那裡靠攏。

While there is no internationally accepted statistical definition of labour migration,

雖然沒有國際公認的勞動力遷移的統計定義。

they are usually categorized by the sectors they work in.

他們通常按其工作的部門進行分類。

And the challenges differ according to their skillset.

而挑戰也因其技能的不同而不同。

You have varying degrees of exclusion, varying degrees of injustice, when it comes to the

你有不同程度的排斥，不同程度的不公正，當它涉及到

issues of basic pay, working conditions, living conditions, recourse to basic labor rights

基本工資、工作條件、生活條件、求助於基本勞動權利等問題

and advice.

和建議。

In fact, there are very strong laws that are put in place to protect and safeguard their

事實上，有非常強大的法律來保護和保障他們的利益。

rights.

權利。

It's enforcing those laws that's the tricky part because that comes down to the companies

執行這些法律才是最棘手的部分，因為這涉及到公司的問題。

that employ them.

僱用他們的公司。

And typically, many of these companies, many of these contractors and subcontractors, it's

通常，這些公司中的許多人，這些承包商和分包商中的許多人，它是

not really a huge priority for them.

對他們來說，這並不是一個巨大的優先事項。

According to Human Rights Watch, Qatar's two million migrant workers make up an estimated

根據人權觀察的數據，卡達的200萬名移民工人中，估計有一半以上的人是來自中國。

95% of the country's workforce.

佔全國勞動力的95%。

The country has faced intense international scrutiny over its treatment of migrant workers16

該國在對待移民工人的問題上面臨著激烈的國際審查16

since it won the 2010 bid to host the World Cup in 2022.

自從它在2010年贏得2022年世界盃的主辦權後。

And many of them are in debt.

而且他們中的許多人都在負債。

Pre-pandemic, that was a big, big problem.

在大流行之前，這是個很大很大的問題。

Also, there is no basic insurance or health coverage for when these men are hurt in an

此外，當這些人在事故中受傷時，沒有基本的保險或健康保障。

accident in the workplace.

工作場所的事故。

The vulnerability of migrant workers was highlighted even further with the pandemic18, as borders

隨著大流行病的發生，移民工人的脆弱性更加突出18，因為邊境

were closed and mobility was heavily restricted.

被關閉，流動性受到嚴重限制。

A lot of these men and women cannot go back because of the restrictions in their own country,

這些男人和女人中的很多人不能回去，因為他們自己國家的限制。

and have to stay here and have to work because of the economic desperation in their own country.

並不得不留在這裡，因為他們自己國家的經濟絕望而不得不工作。

The situation is quite different for migrant workers who still had their jobs in their

對於那些仍然在自己國家有工作的移民工人來說，情況則完全不同。

host country.

東道國。

For example, at one point in December 2020, almost half of migrant workers living in packed

例如，在2020年12月的某一時刻，幾乎有一半居住在包裝內的移民工人。

dormitories in Singapore had had a Covid-19 infection.

新加坡的宿舍曾有過Covid-19感染。

Social distancing in a dormitory, where there are 12 men sleeping there and using that as

在一個宿舍裡，有12個男人睡在那裡，並以此作為社會距離。

their living quarters, transmission will happen.

他們的生活區，傳輸會發生。

Covid will spread.

Covid會傳播。

And that happened.

而這一切都發生了。

We saw that.

我們看到了這一點。

We saw that in Singapore, we saw in Malaysia, we saw that in Thailand.

我們在新加坡看到，我們在馬來西亞看到，我們在泰國看到。

If there was anything good that came out of this pandemic, it did shine a much-needed

如果說這次大流行有什麼好處的話，那就是它確實照亮了一個亟需的

light on the living conditions of these workers in Singapore, and I'm sure it's the case all

我相信在新加坡，這些工人的生活條件都是這樣的。

over the world as well.

在世界範圍內也是如此。

Despite the challenges, migrant workers provide a great benefit not only to their host country,

儘管有這些挑戰，移民工人不僅為他們的東道國提供了巨大的利益。

but for the countries they hail from.

但對於他們所來自的國家而言。

What does it bring a country?

它能給一個國家帶來什麼？

And I think it brings a country an incredible diversity, richness and economic benefit.

而且我認為它給一個國家帶來了難以置信的多樣性、豐富性和經濟利益。

It will benefit the broader economy because of a lot of demographic challenges related

這將有利於更廣泛的經濟，因為有很多與人口有關的挑戰。

to low birth rates, the ageing population.

對低出生率、人口老齡化的影響。

Those are really challenging, longer-term, big structural demographic questions that

這些都是真正具有挑戰性的、長期的、大的結構性人口問題。

are not going to be resolved anytime soon.

暫時不會很快得到解決。

The money migrant workers send back home is such a lifeline to the families who are receiving

移徙工人寄回家的錢對接受他們的家庭來說是一條生命線。

them.

他們。

So, the official record of remittance flows to low and middle-income countries was $540

是以，流向低收入和中等收入國家的匯款的官方記錄是540美元

billion in 2020.

2020年將達到10億美元。

If we're going to start to think seriously about global inclusive economic growth, then

如果我們要開始認真思考全球包容性經濟增長問題，那麼

it cuts both ways as well.

這也是雙向的。

I think many of the countries, the countries where they are from, start thinking seriously

我認為許多國家，他們所在的國家，開始認真思考

about how can we reconfigure our economy, to make it more attractive for this pool of

我們如何能夠重新配置我們的經濟，使其對這批人更有吸引力？

labour that feel that there are no opportunities or the opportunities are better overseas because

覺得沒有機會或機會在海外更好的勞工，因為

of the income and the exchange rate.

的收入和匯率。

How can we retool and reconfigure our economy, to offer a value-added incentive for them

我們如何能夠重新調整和配置我們的經濟，為他們提供一個增值的激勵機制？

to stay in that country?

留在那個國家？

Because after all, they are assets.

因為畢竟他們是資產。

And losing them to another country is, yes it's part of labour mobility, but I think

而失去他們到另一個國家是，是的，這是勞動力流動的一部分，但我認為

it also says a lot for the lack of a longer-term structural plan to really take the economy

這也說明了缺乏一個長期的結構性計劃來真正推動經濟發展。

to the next stage in those countries.

在這些國家進入下一個階段。

Over time, migrant workers – both high- and low-skilled - bring substantial economic

隨著時間的推移，移民工人--包括高技能和低技能工人--都會帶來大量的經濟收入。

benefits to their host countries, especially high-income ones.

對他們的東道國，特別是高收入國家的好處。

Addressing the shorter-term challenges could be the key to maintaining this progress.

應對短期挑戰可能是保持這一進展的關鍵。

Sri, did you know that three out of four of my grandparents are migrants and they all

斯里，你知道嗎，我的祖父母四人中有三人是移民，他們都是

worked here.

在這裡工作過。

I think everyone has that story, you know, “bring me your huddled masses yearning to

我想每個人都有這樣的故事，你知道，"把你那蜷縮在一起的民眾帶到我這裡來，他們渴望得到幫助。

breathe free.”

自由呼吸"。

And my parents, it's something that resonates with me as well.

還有我的父母，這也是讓我產生共鳴的事情。

The civil war in Sri Lanka escalated and really started to take a turn for the worse.

斯里蘭卡的內戰不斷升級，並真正開始轉向惡化。

My parents came to the UK in 1968.

我的父母在1968年來到了英國。

My father wanted to improve his skill set as a doctor, and we made our lives there.

我父親想提高他作為醫生的技能，我們就在那裡生活了。