Name: 瑞典國防首長回應川普痛批北約盟友，在此伊朗開戰之際！ (Sweden defense chief reacts to Trump slamming NATO allies amid Iran war)
Uploaded: 2026-03-26T23:03:58.000Z
Duration: 9 min 4 s
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基礎被動語態

As the war with Iran nears the one-month mark, the patience of some of America's allies is wearing thin, with some European leaders calling for an end to the war, including Spain's Prime Minister, who earlier today said, quote, "It is not fair that some people are setting the world ablaze whilst the rest of us are left to swallow the ashes." Meanwhile, France's army chief called the USA, quote, "an unpredictable ally," and said the US's actions are impacting France's security.

隨著與伊朗的戰爭接近一個月，美國一些盟友的耐心正在減弱，一些歐洲領導人呼籲結束戰爭，包括西班牙總理，他今天稍早表示，引述：「有些人點燃世界，而我們其他人卻得吞下灰燼，這是不公平的。」同時，法國軍隊參謀長稱美國是「一個不可預測的盟友」，並表示美國的行動正在影響法國的安全。

That's in contrast to the message we heard from the NATO Secretary General this weekend.

這與我們這個週末從北約祕書長那裡聽到的訊息形成對比。

I know there is a lot of debate in the US and in Europe whether this, um, campaign of the president, uh, against Iran was necessary.

我知道在美國和歐洲有很多關於總統這次對伊朗的行動是否必要的爭論。

It is crucial that the president, that the US is doing this.

總統、美國這麼做是至關重要的。

Joining me now is Sweden's Chief of Defense and Supreme Commander of the Swedish Armed Forces, Michael Claessen.

現在加入我們的是瑞典國防軍總司令兼瑞典武裝部隊最高指揮官 Michael Claessen。

Thank you for having me on, on the program.

Well, we really appreciate your being here.

好的，我們真的很感謝您能來。

I want to start off by getting your big-picture view of the war with Iran.

我想先請您談談對伊朗戰爭的大局觀。

President Trump has argued that Iran did pose an imminent threat, quite frankly, to global security.

總統川普認為，伊朗確實對全球安全構成了迫在眉睫的威脅，坦白說。

Do you believe that Iran posed an imminent threat?

您認為伊朗構成了迫在眉睫的威脅嗎？

I think that Iran definitely poses a, a, a threat, uh, to, uh, to, uh, the global community.

我認為伊朗絕對對全球社群構成威脅。

And, and, uh, we all know about the, uh, the axis between Russia and in Iran and, uh, Russia, Iran, and

我們都知道俄羅斯、伊朗和北韓之間的軸心，

North Korea, for example, uh, which definitely poses a threat to global security.

例如，這絕對對全球安全構成威脅。

Uh, in what order to address that, it's not my, my thing to decide, of course, but, uh, it's just a fact that, that this axis exists.

至於如何處理，當然不是我決定的，但這個軸心確實存在，這是事實。

Part of the president's justification for the war and I'll just quote for you a little bit of what he says, is that Iran was developing weapons that could, quote, "target our very good friends and allies in Europe as well as US troops overseas." Did Sweden have that perspective, that Iran could potentially target it?

總統發動戰爭的理由之一，我引用他的一段話，是伊朗正在研發可能「瞄準我們在歐洲的摯友和盟友以及海外美國部隊」的武器。瑞典也有這樣的看法嗎，認為伊朗可能會瞄準瑞典？

we have seen some, some evidence in the last couple of weeks that they actually have the capability, to what extent, and, and, uh, with what sustainability you can always discuss, but, uh, that they definitely have these long-range capabilities and, and, uh, po opens up a new vector, so to speak, uh, against also, uh, targets in, in Europe.

我們在過去幾週看到了一些證據，顯示他們確實有這個能力，至於能力到什麼程度，以及能持續多久，這都可以討論，但他們確實擁有這些遠程能力，這也打開了一個新的途徑，可以說是針對歐洲的目標。

That's, uh, more or less a, a, a fact, too, I, I would say.

我認為這或多或少也是一個事實。

but again, I mean, we have been very focused on Russia and are still very focused on Russia.

但話說回來，我們一直非常關注俄羅斯，現在也仍然非常關注俄羅斯。

So in that regard, of course, again, going back to the, uh, the axis between those countries.

所以在這方面，當然，又回到了這些國家之間的軸心。

Well, and, and I do want to ask you about Russia in just a moment.

好，我馬上就要問您關於俄羅斯的事了。

There's been a lot of talk about whether there can be diplomatic discussions.

有很多關於是否能進行外交談判的討論。

President Trump says that the US is talking to Iran.

川普總統說美國正在和伊朗談判。

Uh, we have reporting that the US has, in fact, submitted a 15-point plan.

嗯，我們有報導指出，美國實際上已經提交了一項15點計畫。

Do you think diplomacy is possible, and do you think it's possible in this moment?

你覺得外交有可能嗎？而且你覺得現在這個時刻有可能嗎？

Well, um, to be honest, I think that, that diplomacy always must play a role simultaneously with military action.

嗯，說實話，我認為外交行動和軍事行動必須同時進行。

Uh, it's, it's, uh, from my perspective, it's never either/or.

呃，從我的角度來看，這從來都不是二選一。

Uh, the main effort can be on one or the other, uh, aspect, of course, but,

呃，當然，主要的努力可以放在其中一個方面，

I spoke with President Trump a couple of weeks ago,

and he said that he was reaching out to NATO allies asking for your help to secure and reopen the Strait of Hormuz.

他說他正在聯繫北約盟友，尋求你們的幫助來確保和重新開放荷姆茲海峽。

He's expressed frustration in the wake of that, that more allies have not come forward.

他對更多盟友沒有挺身而出表達了沮喪。

Does Sweden have any intention to play a role in reopening the strait?

瑞典有打算在重新開放海峽方面扮演角色嗎？

Well, uh, we are open for, for anything that, that could, uh, contribute to a, uh, de-escalation, uh, a de-escalation, and, uh, also going back to sort of the, uh, uh, uh, free movement, freedom of navigation, uh, through international straits, including the Hormuz.

嗯，我們對任何能有助於降溫、

So I guess that, that if, if there are any approaches made through the NATO system or bilaterally, uh, we would be open to, uh, to discuss that.

緩和局勢，以及恢復國際海峽，包括荷姆茲海峽的自由通行、航行自由，持開放態度。

So you would be open to potentially help,

所以我想，如果透過北約體系或雙邊有任何接觸，

but Sweden hasn't made any commitments at this point in time?

但瑞典目前還沒有做出任何承諾？

I want to just get your broad reaction to what we've heard from President Trump recently about NATO.

He's called NATO a paper tiger, quote, "cowards," and I want to play you a little bit of what we've heard from him.

我想聽聽您對川普總統最近關於北約的說法有什麼廣泛的看法。

In case of, uh, NATO, they don't want to help us defend the strait,

如果，嗯，北約不想幫我們防衛海峽，

NATO could help us, but they so far haven't had the courage to do so.

北約可以幫我們，但到目前為止他們還沒有那個膽量。

What is your reaction when President Trump makes these comments about NATO?

當川普總統發表這些關於北約的評論時，您的反應是什麼？

Uh, well, I think that, uh, to start with, I can only speak from a Swedish military perspective and,

嗯，我想，嗯，首先，我只能從瑞典軍方的角度來說，而且，

and certainly not comment on, on, uh, uh, foreign, uh, political leaders' comments commentary on, on, on the alliance or anything else, basically.

也絕對不會評論，嗯，嗯，外國，嗯，政治領袖對聯盟或其他任何事情的評論。

I can I can assure any, anyone that wants to listen that, that, well, Sweden and Swedes are no cowards, uh,

我可以向任何願意聽的人保證，嗯，瑞典和瑞典人不是懦夫，嗯，

and we have proven that in international operations over decades, uh, also together with NATO and together with our American allies, uh, shoulder to shoulder.

我們在國際行動中已經證明瞭這一點數十年，嗯，也與北約以及我們的美國盟友並肩作戰。

Do you think those comments impact European leaders?

你覺得那些評論會影響歐洲的領導人嗎？

Uh, well, it in, in many ways, of course, uh, it, it does, but, uh, it also makes us think twice, um, uh, to what extent we, we actually are, um, uh, in need of, of focusing on more, more aspects and more threats than only, uh, sort of the ones that directly affect us, which is very often, again, uh, only Russia.

嗯，嗯，從很多方面來說，當然，呃，它確實有影響，但是，呃，它也讓我們三思，嗯，嗯，在多大程度上，我們實際上，嗯，嗯，需要關注更多，更多方面和更多威脅，而不僅僅是，呃，直接影響我們的威脅，這經常是，又，呃，只有俄羅斯。

Let me ask you, because Spain's Prime Minister earlier today and we were talking about Russia, your focus on Russia, claimed that Russia has made €8 billion, which is some $9 billion, from increased energy prices since the start of the war.

讓我問你，因為西班牙的總理今天早些時候，我們在談論俄羅斯，你對俄羅斯的關注，聲稱自戰爭開始以來，俄羅斯從能源價格上漲中獲利了 80 億歐元，約合 90 億美元。

Do you believe that Russia is benefiting right now from this war?

你相信俄羅斯現在正在從這場戰爭中獲利嗎？

In, indeed, of course, they, they, they do.

嗯，確實，當然，他們，他們，他們有。

They already run a sort of a wartime economy.

他們已經在運作一種戰時經濟了。

Uh, they have increased their production capacity with regard to, um, missiles and, and

嗯，他們增加了產能，關於，嗯，飛彈和，和

and this will be an injection of energy into, uh, to their war economy.

這將為他們的戰時經濟注入活力。

You are very focused on the war in Ukraine as well, trying to bring that conflict to an end.

你也很關注烏克蘭的戰爭，希望能讓這場衝突早日結束。

How does the war in Iran impact the efforts to try to bring the war in Ukraine to an end, do you think?

你認為伊朗的戰爭會如何影響結束烏克蘭戰爭的努力呢？

I think one, one concern that we all share in the in the military community globally, uh, or, uh, at least in the West, is, of course, security of supply.

我想我們在全球軍事社群，或者至少在西方，共同關切的一點，當然就是供應安全。

Uh, we know that, that, um, we need the same type of, of weapon systems up and running for deterring Russia in Europe, uh, and

嗯，我們知道，我們需要同樣的武器系統運作正常，來嚇阻俄羅斯在歐洲，

Uh, we know that we need the same type of weapon systems to continue to support Ukraine, uh, to, uh, underpin their, uh, ability to defend themselves.

嗯，我們知道我們需要同樣的武器系統來持續支持烏克蘭，來鞏固他們自衛的能力。

And of course, um, the, the war and the operations in the in the Middle East requires, uh, even more.

當然，中東的戰爭和軍事行動，還需要更多。

So all this together needs, uh, a balancing and, and

所以這一切加起來，需要一個平衡，

needs, uh, to be weighed against the production capacity of the defense industrial base, uh, in, in the West.

需要權衡西方國防工業基礎的生產能力。

and then there's also the space to actually try to have global leaders work towards bringing an end to the war in Ukraine.

而且我們也需要空間，讓全球領導人努力促成烏克蘭戰爭的結束。

Do you have concerns that the focus has shifted to Iran and that that could potentially prolong the war in Ukraine?

你是否擔心焦點已經轉移到伊朗，而這可能會延長烏克蘭的戰爭？

politically, and, and, uh, if I may say that also in this context, that, that media of very often has, has focused on one thing at a time.

而且，政治上，如果我可以這樣說，媒體也常常一次只關注一件事。

Uh, so obviously it takes focus away from Ukraine, um, um, and, and, uh, this is something that we need to keep in mind.

所以顯然這會轉移對烏克蘭的關注，而這是我們需要記住的。

and focus on which countries, which axes are actually playing, um, uh, the strategic play, um, simultaneously.

並關注哪些國家、哪些軸心正在同時進行戰略博弈。

What do you want the world to know about Ukraine and what's happening there right now?

你希望全世界知道關於烏克蘭以及那裡現在正在發生的事情什麼？

I had the chance to, to travel 3,000 kilometers.

I don't know how much that is in miles, but, but 3,000 kilometers by car throughout Ukraine.

我不知道那等於多少英里，但，但開車穿越烏克蘭三千公里。

I met with, uh, several maybe tens and twenties, uh, of, of, of military leaders.

我見了，呃，好幾十位，大概二、三十位，呃，軍事領導人。

But the most important thing was to get, uh, uh, my own perception of, of the atmospherics in the country.

但最重要的是，呃，呃，親身感受這個國家的氛圍。

And my main conclusion is it's not a broken country.

我的主要結論是，它不是一個破碎的國家。

Uh, they are tired for obvious reasons, but it's not a broken country.

呃，他們很疲憊，這很明顯，但它不是一個破碎的國家。

So we need to maintain focus on, on more than one problem.

所以我們需要同時關注不只一個問題。