Name: Gabor Mate 醫師與 Shelly Prosko 醫師對談：W.O.W. 暢聊：智慧的言語！ (Dr. Gabor Mate with Shelly Prosko: W.O.W. Chats: Words Of Wisdom)
Uploaded: 2026-02-28T13:53:00.000Z
Duration: 7 min 58 s

Words of wisdom with people that I admire and respect and whose work is in line with making this world a better place.

與我崇拜、尊敬，並且工作宗旨是讓世界變得更美好的人們分享智慧。

And I have the honor and the privilege of bringing the words of wisdom of Dr. Gabor.

我非常榮幸能帶來 Gabor 醫師的智慧。

Well, thanks for those kind words so much.

嗯，非常感謝你這麼客氣的話。

And for those of you that don't know him, or maybe you don't know of his work, just look at all the links below.

如果你們不認識他，或者可能不知道他的作品，請看看下面的所有連結。

I'm gonna leave his website and all of the links to your books and events and your calendar, but

我會放上他的網站，以及所有你書籍、活動和行程表的連結，但是

There's so much I want to ask you, and I think I'm gonna take this right now.

我有好多問題想問你，我想我現在就要問了。

I'll just give you a little bit of history here.

I just spent two full days with Gabor at the Compassionate Inquiry Workshop.

我跟 Gabor 在 Compassionate Inquiry 工作坊待了整整兩天。

And yesterday there was something that happened that I wanted your.

昨天發生了一件事，我想要請大家。

I want you to comment on and just elaborate on a little bit.

來評論一下，然後稍微多說一點。

And it was when you had someone up on stage and you were working with them.

那時候你找了一位來賓上臺，然後你正在跟他互動。

And what he does is, in this workshop is he demonstrates sort of how he uses.

在這個工作坊裡，他示範了他如何運用。

How he compassionately inquires and how he uses different concepts and approaches.

他如何 Compassionate Inquiry，以及他如何運用不同的概念和方法。

And so you had this woman up on stage, and there was a moment that felt.

所以你找了這位女士上臺，然後有一個時刻感覺。

I don't say off, but just not like in that flow.

我不是說停下來，只是不像在那樣的流動裡。

And sure enough, you said something under your breath.

And I'm wondering if you can comment on that and maybe even how it relates to healthcare practitioners in that therapeutic environment.

我想知道你能不能評論一下，甚至是如何與在 therapeutic environment 裡的醫護人員相關。

I don't actually recall the specific incident.

When I'm actually doing the work, I'm so much in the flow, I actually end up not recalling what happens, but

當我實際在工作時，我太投入了，我其實不太記得發生了什麼，但是

I can certainly relate that to other times when that's occurred.

我當然能把它連結到其他發生過類似情況的時候。

So in this compassionate inquiry, it's really about going into what's behind people's feeling states and emotions and behaviors and chronic patterns and to conduct it effectively.

所以，在這個 Compassionate Inquiry 裡，我們真的要深入瞭解人們的感受、情緒、行為和長期的模式，以及如何有效地進行。

It's not enough that I pay attention to the client, but I really do.

光是關注 client 這樣還不夠，我真的必須要。

I have to really pay attention to the client's voice, facial expressions, body language, in other words, what they're messaging me about their internal states, not just what they're saying and how they're saying it, but

我必須真的去留意 client 的聲音、表情、肢體語言，也就是他們透過這些傳達給我的內在狀態，不只是他們說了什麼、怎麼說，而是

also who's present in them at that moment.

在那一刻，他們裡面是誰在場。

So that requires attention, but requiring equal attention is what's happening inside me.

所以這需要專注，但同樣需要專注的是我內在正在發生什麼。

So what would have happened in that incident yesterday?

那麼昨天那件事，到底發生了什麼？

I would have noticed some tension inside me, inside myself, which is not about the client.

我會注意到我內在、我自己裡面有些緊繃，這不是關於 client。

It's about what's happening inside me at that moment.

而是關於在那一刻，我內在正在發生什麼。

And that happens when I've got an intention and I'm maybe working a little bit too hard to get the client aligned with my intention.

而這會發生在我有一個 intention，然後我可能有點太努力想讓 client 符合我的 intention 的時候。

But getting the client aligned with my intention is not the purpose of the work.

但讓 client 符合我的 intention 並不是工作的目的。

The purpose of the work is to get me aligned with the client's intention and the client's needs and internal states.

工作的主要目的，是要讓我跟 client 的 intention 和 client 的需求、內在狀態對齊。

So if I find myself pushing too hard trying to get them to see something that I might see and I want them to see, then I'm going to notice that tension in myself.

所以如果我發現自己太用力，想讓他們看到我可能看到、而我希望他們看到的東西，我就會注意到自己內在的緊繃。

And my mantra on that is whenever there's tension, it requires attention.

這時候我的心法就是，只要有緊繃，就需要關注。

So it requires that I tend to myself because I know surely from past, grievous, past practice.

這表示我需要照顧好自己，因為我從過去慘痛的經驗中，非常確定這一點。

But if I'm pushing too hard on a client and if I don't pay attention to that attention myself, I'm actually going to never mind not help them.

如果我對 client 太過用力，而且我自己沒有注意到這個緊繃，那我其實不只幫不上忙。

I may even create some unnecessary suffering for them.

我甚至可能會為他們製造一些不必要的痛苦。

So that's what that would have been about.

And if I can just ask you one other thing about that.

如果我可以再問你一件事關於這個。

When you said you notice the tension, is it a feeling that's always the same?

當你說你注意到緊繃感時，那種感覺是一樣的嗎？

Like, is it something that you're familiar with every time or does it change?

像是，你每次都熟悉這種感覺，還是會改變？

Like, is it sometimes you feel it differently in your body, your breath or your mind?

像是，你感覺到身體、呼吸或思緒上的緊繃感有時候會不一樣嗎？

Well, I can give you the two broad cues, not as subtly as you're asking it.

嗯，我可以給你兩個比較大的提示，不像你問得那麼細膩。

If I pay attention, there's attention here in my chest area.

如果我注意到的話，我的胸腔這裡有種注意力的感覺。

On the mind level, I'm wanting them to see something.

在心智層面，我希望他們能看到一些東西。

I'm really wanting something to happen that isn't happening.

我真的很希望發生一些沒有發生的事。

Inquiring means you don't know and you're curious.

探詢意味著你不知道，而且你感到好奇。

When I want something to happen and I know where I want to go with it, that's not curiosity anymore, that's not inquiry anymore.

當我希望某件事發生，而且我知道我要導向哪裡時，那就不再是好奇心了，那也不再是探詢了。

And so if I notice that urgency on the mind level or the tension in the body, then it's absolutely time for me to pause and inquire as to what's going on with them, what's going on with me and Just to switch gears.

所以，如果我注意到心智層面的那種急迫感，或是身體的緊繃感，那時候我絕對需要停下來，探詢一下他們身上發生了什麼事，我身上發生了什麼事，然後轉換一下方向。

And as soon as you do, as soon as I do, you just feel an easing of the tension and an easing of the compulsiveness of the intention.

而且你一做，我一做，你就會感覺到緊繃感減輕了，意圖的強迫性也減輕了。

I find to that point, then the mind becomes clearer too, and things become more in flow.

我發現到那個點，心智也會變得更清晰，事情也會更順暢。

Yeah, well, my mind becomes clearer because I've removed this content.

對啊，嗯，我的心智變得更清晰，因為我移除了這些內容。

But the mind of the client becomes clearer because when people are pushed upon, if they perceive themselves as pushed upon, even when they're not pushed upon, they just perceive themselves.

但 client 的心智變得更清晰，因為當人們覺得被強迫時，即使他們沒有被強迫，他們也只是覺得自己被強迫了。

It puts them into physiological and neurological states of defensiveness.

這會讓他們進入生理和神經系統的防禦狀態。

And as soon as you put somebody in a state of defensiveness, their mind doesn't work.

而且一旦你讓一個人進入防禦狀態，他們的大腦就無法正常運作。

Their upper brain circuits don't function as well.

他們大腦上方的迴路功能也會變差。

So it certainly leads to clear thinking on the part of the health care provider, and

所以這絕對有助於醫療照護提供者清晰思考，而且

it certainly leads to more clarity on the part of the client as well.

這也絕對有助於 client 變得更清晰。

You clear out what's in the way and there's clarity.

你清除掉阻礙的東西，就會有清晰。

I hope so many of you healthcare practitioners find value in that.

我希望很多身為醫療照護從業者的你們，能從中獲得價值。

Do you use that just in your regular personal life too, in relationships?

你也會在日常的個人生活中，在人際關係中使用這個嗎？

What kind of an interview is this anyway?

對啊，我越來越有這種感覺了。

And I hadn't for a long time and the effects and say my relationship with my wife were always negative.

還有很長一段時間我不是這樣，而且我跟我太太的關係一直都很負面。

And so I actually have learned to do that.

所以我其實已經學會這樣做了。

So much space and so much more clear and loving communication.

很多空間，還有更清晰、更有愛的溝通。

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Gabor Mate 醫師與 Shelly Prosko 醫師對談：W.O.W. 暢聊：智慧的言語！ (Dr. Gabor Mate with Shelly Prosko: W.O.W. Chats: Words Of Wisdom)

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