Name: BBC 獨家報導！烏東前線阿兵哥親口說出心聲 | BBC News (Troops in eastern Ukraine speak to the BBC | BBC News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-09T17:04:16.000Z
Duration: 7 min 36 s

Lets bring you the latest from Ukraine where officials insist they're still resisting Russian advances in the city of Pokrovsk in eastern Ukraine.

帶您關心烏克蘭最新消息，當地官員堅稱，在烏東城市波克羅夫斯克，他們仍在抵抗俄羅斯的推進。

轉承詞

That's despite Russian claims last week that it's now taken control of the city.

這是在俄羅斯上週宣稱已控制該城市之後。

While Pokrovsk has been a key battleground for more than a year, Ukraine seeing it as a major obstacle to preventing Russian forces from taking control of the entire Donetsk region.

儘管波克羅夫斯克已成為一年多來的關鍵戰場，但烏克蘭視其為阻止俄羅斯軍隊完全掌控頓內茨克地區的重大障礙。

Well, our defence correspondent Jonathan Biel has been with Ukrainian troops who continue to defend the city.

我們的防務記者 Jonathan Biel 已經和持續保衛這座城市的烏克蘭軍隊在一起。

The Crovsk hasn't fallen despite Russian claims to have taken the city.

儘管俄羅斯宣稱已攻下波克羅夫斯克，但該市並未陷落。

This the command center where Ukraine's Scalar assault regiment is coordinating the fight.

這裡就是烏克蘭 Skala 突擊團協調戰鬥的指揮中心。

They say they have hundreds of soldiers still in the city.

他們表示，城裡還有數百名阿兵哥。

They want to show us to refute what they say is another Kremlin lie.

他們想向我們展示，以駁斥他們所說的，克里姆林宮又一個謊言。

So to prove that Ukrainian troops are still in Pokrovsk, they're just getting some of the troops talking to them now to show their flag.

所以為了證明烏克蘭軍隊仍在波克羅夫斯克，他們正讓一些阿兵哥和我們談話，展示他們的國旗。

So Sasha has been talking to his men on the ground to show that they're fighting in Perkrovsk.

所以薩沙一直在和地面上的弟兄們溝通，讓大家知道他們還在波克羅夫斯克戰鬥。

He's asked them to put up a Ukrainian flag and there it is.

他請他們升起一面烏克蘭國旗，現在就在那裡。

They're then told to change their position.

然後他們會被告知要轉移陣地。

If we do not show this, the whole world will lose faith and stop helping the Ukrainian people.

如果我們不展示這個，全世界都會失去信心，停止幫助烏克蘭人民。

The Ukrainian army, that is why we are doing this, to prove we're still strong.

烏克蘭軍隊，這就是我們這麼做的原因，證明我們依然強大。

The green plastic soldiers, Ukrainian troops still holding the north of the city, the brown ones, small Russian units trying to advance from the south.

綠色的塑膠阿兵哥代表烏克蘭軍隊仍守在城北，棕色的則代表試圖從南方推進的小股俄羅斯部隊。

Ukraine is once again outnumbered but it's proving costly for Russia.

烏克蘭再次陷入寡不敵眾的局面，但這對俄羅斯來說代價高昂。

Basically you think you killed a lot of Russians in Pokrovsk?

所以你認為你們在波克羅夫斯克殺了很多俄羅斯人？

I think the idea about giving up land for peace, what do you say to that?

關於為了和平而放棄土地的想法，你怎麼看？

So much blood of Ukrainian people in this ground.

這片土地上流淌著烏克蘭人民的鮮血。

所以放棄任何一部分都會是個恥辱。

If we will give some, Russia will take more.

如果我們放棄一部分，俄羅斯就會得寸進尺。

With the constant menace of Russian drones, this is what it's like fighting in Perkrovsk.

在俄羅斯無人機的持續威脅下，這就是在波克羅夫斯克作戰的景象。

What a unit of the Skala regiment experienced this week.

The same threat Khotabi had to face for nearly 30 days.

這也是 Khotabi 近 30 天來必須面對的威脅。

當無人機發現你時，真的很可怕。

We always wished for good weather, meaning fog or some rain, a gray sky, because at such times we could resupply and reinforce our positions and the rest of the time we just Sat there without going out so that the drones wouldn't spot us.

我們總是希望天氣好，像是起霧或下點雨，天空灰濛濛的，因為那時候我們可以補給和加強我們的陣地，其他時間我們就只能待在裡面，不出門，以免被無人機發現。

The battle for Perkrovsk has been going on for more than a year.

波克羅夫斯克之戰已經持續了一年多。

But Ukraine needs proof of its resolve at this critical time.

但在這個關鍵時刻，烏克蘭需要證明其決心。

Jonathan Biel, BBC News, Eastern Ukraine.

BBC新聞東烏克蘭記者 Jonathan Biel 報導。

Well, let's speak now to Jonathan, who is in Dnipro, a city in the east of Ukraine.

好的，我們現在連線在烏克蘭東部城市第聶伯羅的 Jonathan。

So, Jonathan, did you get the sense from the troops that you spoke to that there's any willingness to sacrifice territory to.

那麼 Jonathan，你從你採訪的阿兵哥那裡感受到他們是否願意犧牲領土來。

I think the closer you get to the fighting and the longer they've been fighting, the harder it is for them to accept any territorial concessions.

我認為，你越接近戰場，他們打仗的時間越長，他們就越難接受任何領土讓步。

So certainly no sense from those troops we spoke to.

所以，我們採訪的那些阿兵哥肯定沒有這種想法。

You got to remember that they're with commanding officers.

你要記得，他們和指揮官在一起。

It's less likely that they're going to say anything critical about the war and about the way Ukraine's conducted it.

我認為，他們不太可能會對這場戰爭以及烏克蘭的處理方式說出任何批評的話。

But I think there is a real belief there that they've sacrificed so much and they don't want to sacrifice any more.

但我認為他們真的相信，他們已經犧牲了這麼多，不想再犧牲了。

And also a belief that if they did sacrifice more land, then Russia would just take more, as you heard in that piece earlier.

而且，他們也相信，如果他們再犧牲更多土地，俄羅斯就會得寸進尺，就像你剛才聽到的那樣。

So I think that that is the mood of the troops fighting this battle who've made huge sacrifices, seen their comrades fall, a mood of defiance, essentially.

所以我認為，這就是正在戰鬥的部隊的情緒，他們付出了巨大的犧牲，看到了戰友倒下，基本上是一種反抗的情緒。

I think the further away you get from the fighting, if you're a civilian, if you've moved from the east, for example, your home, it may be, and

我認為，離戰鬥越遠，如果你是平民，如果你從東部搬來，例如你的家，可能是這樣，

we've spoken to people that they will not return.

我們也採訪過一些人，他們說他們不會回去。

They do not believe that it will be safe enough to return.

他們不相信那裡會足夠安全讓他們回去。

That's certainly some of the comments we've heard.

這絕對是我們聽到的一些評論。

There's a desire for peace amongst soldiers.

軍人之間也有渴望和平的聲音。

There's a desire for peace amongst civilians, too, and from President Zelensky himself, but not at any price.

平民也是，澤倫斯基總統本人也是，但不是不計代價的。

And President Zelensky has made clear that this U.S.

澤倫斯基總統已經說得很清楚，美國

peace plan that has been put forward at the moment, it is not acceptable to Ukraine because it would mean ceding more territory.

目前提出的和平計畫，烏克蘭無法接受，因為這意味著要割讓更多領土。

And he says he is not willing to do that.

So that is the key sticking point about these peace talks at the moment.

所以這就是目前和平談判的關鍵癥結點。

And there is evidence on the front line that President Zelensky, his standard is supported by his forces.

前線的證據顯示，澤倫斯基總統的立場，他的部隊也支持。

And, Jonathan, is there a sense from the troops that you spoke to that they think they can still retain parts of the east, land which they've been asked to give up?

Jonathan，你採訪的部隊，他們覺得自己還能守住東部一部分，那些被要求放棄的土地嗎？

I mean, certainly among those troops we spoke to, there's some frustration that if you look at some of the battlefield maps, it shows that Russia has infiltrated inside, across, beyond their own lines, into Ukrainian lines.

我想，跟我們談過的那些部隊，他們確實有些沮喪，因為如果看看戰場地圖，會發現俄羅斯已經滲透到他們自己的防線裡面，越過，超越了，進入了烏克蘭的防線。

And therefore the battle map looks like it's completely taken by the Russians.

是以，戰場地圖看起來就像是俄羅斯完全佔領了。

They say they are still holding in Pokrovsk, the north of the city.

他們說他們還守在波克羅夫斯克，城市的北部。

And we spoke to soldiers, certainly who were near the railway line which bisects that city and who have been defending Pokrovsk.

我們也採訪了阿兵哥，他們就在將這座城市一分為二的鐵路線附近，一直在保衛波克羅夫斯克。

So there is frustration, I think Ukrainian troops say they need support, they need weapons, they need Western weapons.

所以，我認為烏克蘭部隊感到沮喪，他們說他們需要支援，需要武器，需要西方武器。

They need, for example, night vision drones, which the Russians have in significant numbers.

他們需要，例如，夜視無人機，這是俄羅斯擁有大量的一種。

They need air power, which again, Russia has the advantage.

他們需要空中力量，這方面俄羅斯又佔有優勢。

So I think there is concern that America might pull the plug on support.

所以我認為，大家擔心美國可能會停止支援。

Remember, America is not directly supplying weapons to Ukraine, but

請記住，美國並未直接向烏克蘭供應武器，但是

Western countries, NATO countries, European countries are buying American equipment to give to Ukraine.

西方國家、北約國家、歐洲國家正在購買美國的裝備送給烏克蘭。

So I think, you know, there is concern about long term military support as far as Ukrainian troops are concerned.

所以，我認為，就烏克蘭部隊而言，他們擔心長期的軍事支援。

And if they don't get that support, then I think it's very hard to see them holding the territory in the east because Russia, no doubt about it, is making advances.

如果他們得不到這種支援，那麼我認為很難看到他們守住東部的領土，因為俄羅斯無疑正在推進。

Okay, Jonathan Bale, thank you very much for bringing us up today with the very latest from Ukraine.

好的，Jonathan Bale，非常感謝你今天為我們帶來烏克蘭的最新消息。