Name: 造山者：獨家專訪紀錄片製片人 (‘A Chip Odyssey’: An Exclusive Interview with Documentary’s Producer | Taiwan Talks W18)
Uploaded: 2025-07-28T03:22:53.000Z
Duration: 29 min

Hello and welcome to Taiwan Talks, I'm Jasmine Lee.

大家好，歡迎收看《臺灣談話》，我是 Jasmine Lee。

Taiwan's semiconductor industry plays a pivotal role in the global supply chain.

臺灣的半導體產業在全球供應鏈中發揮著舉足輕重的作用。

情態副詞

A newly released documentary, A Chip Odyssey, which took five years to produce, chronicles the rise of this history and the rise of the semiconductor industry in Taiwan, and is now gaining international attention.

最新發布的紀錄片《造山者》歷時五年製作，記錄了這段歷史的興起和臺灣半導體產業的崛起，目前正受到國際關注。

So today we're diving into how Taiwan became the world's leading foundry hub, and at the same time, how this industry is shaping the world politics.

今天，我們將深入探討臺灣如何成為世界領先的代工中心，同時，這個行業又是如何影響世界政治的。

Joining us today are Ben Tsiang, the producer of A Chip Odyssey, also the CNEX co-founder and chairman, and Rocky Uriankhai, SciTech Power Research CEO.

今天加入我們的有《造山者》的製片人、Cenex 聯合創始人兼董事長蔣顯斌（本），以及 SciTech Power Research 首席執行官烏凌翔（洛基）。

A very warm welcome to both of you on the show.

So first, I just want to say congratulations to Ben.

我真的很喜歡它，我學到了很多東西。

I'm currently forcing all of my family members to watch the film.

我現在正強迫我所有的家人觀看這部電影。

So let's begin, maybe you've been asked multiple times, what inspired you to capture this part of the history?

那麼讓我們開始吧，也許你已經被問了很多次，是什麼激發了你去捕捉這段歷史？

Yes, A Chip Odyssey is a result of five years' work, as you just said.

是的，正如你剛才所說，《造山者》是五年工作的成果。

Actually all began from a farewell, because five years ago, our director, Xiao Juzhen, attended a memorial service of Mr. Hu Dinghua, who is the key figure of semiconductor industry.

其實，這一切都源於一次告別，因為五年前，導演蕭菊貞參加了半導體行業泰斗胡定華先生的追悼會。

And during the memorial, she heard a lot of, like the engineers and also the civil servants, they talk about the story, they are not talking about the technology, they all talk about how they fought together for the journey side by side, all the very emotional experience that she never felt before.

在悼念活動中，她聽到很多人，比如工程師和公務員，都在談論這個故事，他們談論的不是技術，而是他們如何並肩戰鬥的歷程，所有這些都是她從未感受過的非常感人的經歷。

是以，他的所見所聞讓她深受感動。

And she asked her friend that, are those stories being properly documented in the film?

她問她的朋友，這些故事在電影中得到了適當的記錄嗎？

And coincidentally, I have a friend, a tech company chairman at the same memorial, and after the ceremony, he actually called me, said, Ben, could you do something for these people?

巧合的是，我有一個朋友，一家科技公司的董事長也參加了這次紀念活動，儀式結束後，他給我打電話說，本，你能為這些人做點什麼嗎？

So we start digging the piece of the history, and eventually we joined forces and become a team and worked for five years.

於是，我們開始挖掘這段歷史，最終我們聯合起來，成為一個團隊，工作了五年。

And we didn't set out to glorify the industry or chips, we just want to understand how this little island can really become essential to the modern world.

我們並不是要美化這個行業或芯片，我們只是想了解這個小島是如何真正成為現代世界不可或缺的。

And really the conviction, the long-term belief and also perseverance make the whole industry possible.

而真正的信念、長期的信念和堅持不懈的精神使整個行業成為可能。

So we feel very fortunate, very honored that we have opportunity to capture the really last mile of those first generation of engineers who can share their life story with us.

是以，我們感到非常幸運、非常榮幸，因為我們有機會捕捉到第一代工程師真正的最後一英里，他們可以與我們分享他們的人生故事。

And why does the film title, A Chip Odyssey?

影片的名字為什麼叫《造山者》？

If you're going to see this film, what we found is not really about just technology.

如果你要看這部電影，我們發現的其實不僅僅是技術。

It's actually a lot of people, human story behind all the technology.

實際上，所有技術背後都有很多人和故事。

So the whole technology building and all the shared purpose and the shared effort make

是以，整個技術大樓以及所有共同的目標和共同的努力使得

Taiwan and make the whole industry possible.

It's about how the group of people really, you know, they answered the calling from what

這是關於這群人是如何真正地，你知道，他們是如何迴應來自何方的召喚的。

And we thought this is a story that Taiwan needs to tell.

我們認為這是臺灣需要講述的故事。

And probably we invite all the Taiwan society and the world to hear it.

我們可能會邀請整個臺灣社會和全世界來聆聽。

還有洛基，你也看了一部電影。

So first, a very open question to you, what's your biggest takeaway from this film?

首先，問你一個非常開放的問題，你從這部電影中最大的收穫是什麼？

Honestly speaking, looking back, it's very difficult for me to remember any one of my classmates, you know, that man knows that I majored in EE, right, have a lot of classmates in EE.

老實說，回想起來，我很難記住我的任何一個同學，你知道，那個人知道我主修電子工程，對吧，有很多同學都是電子工程專業的。

I couldn't remember probably only one who had set up this goal to enter this field.

我不記得大概只有一個人設定了進入這一領域的目標。

At the very beginning, probably none of us had a clear plan to run into this, at least not in foundry.

一開始，我們可能都沒有明確的計劃來解決這個問題，至少在代工廠沒有。

But of course, later on, some of my classmates, they achieved great success in this field and became even millionaires, billionaires.

當然，後來我的一些同學在這一領域取得了巨大成功，甚至成為了百萬富翁、億萬富翁。

So my point is, there are really a lot of coincidences and the chance factors in this field.

是以，我的觀點是，這個領域確實存在很多巧合和偶然因素。

And there have been, of course, like Prime Ministers Sun Yat-sen and the KTD, they are great persons.

當然，也有一些人，比如孫中山總理和國民黨首相，他們都是偉人。

They had a great view and setting up great goals for the government.

他們視野開闊，為政府制定了宏偉的目標。

But at the very beginning, I didn't, I don't think any one of them had expected that Taiwan would become like, again, a position like what it is right now.

但在一開始，我不認為，我認為他們中的任何一個人都沒有想到臺灣會再次成為現在這樣的地位。

No wonder Ben will name it Odyssey, it's a really amazing journey.

難怪本會把它命名為 "奧德賽"，這真是一段神奇的旅程。

And Ben, so you mentioned a little bit about the background of this history.

本，你提到了一些關於這段歷史的背景。

At that time, Taiwan is receiving very, very high pressure internationally.

當時，臺灣在國際上承受著非常、非常大的壓力。

So the film at the beginning started from the early days of that period.

是以，這部電影一開始就是從那個時期的早期開始的。

It's this, it is a mission of the national importance and now become the global hub for the chip.

就是這個，它是一項具有國家重要意義的任務，現在已成為全球芯片中心。

So from your view, how has the development of Taiwan's semiconductor sector been shaped by the international landscape?

在您看來，國際形勢如何影響了臺灣半導體行業的發展？

Well, as we know, the whole Taiwan semiconductor industry wasn't born or raised in a vacuum.

眾所周知，整個臺灣半導體產業並非誕生或成長於真空之中。

It's actually alongside with all the global major events, like the UN, Taiwan was pushed out from the UN, and also about the Cold War, and also the US and Asian relationship changing and globalization, and now it's de-risking.

實際上，這與所有全球重大事件有關，比如聯合國，臺灣被擠出了聯合國，還有冷戰，以及美國和亞洲關係的變化和全球化，現在它正在去風險化。

So I think Taiwan as a little island, I think probably the greatest strength is we never have the luxury of the size and the certainty.

是以，我認為臺灣作為一個小島國，最大的優勢可能就是我們從來沒有那麼大的面積和那麼大的確定性。

So we always, I think the conviction of all the leaders and all the people who are in the circle, in the industry, really make the whole thing possible.

是以，我們始終認為，所有領導者和圈內人、業內人士的信念，確實讓整個事情成為可能。

And all the engineers, the scientists, and also the leaders, they are not just reacting to the outside world.

所有的工程師、科學家以及領導者，他們不僅僅是對外界做出反應。

They are committing for the past finding.

I think that's something we saw in the film.

我想這是我們在影片中看到的。

And I think that's also quite inspiring for even half century later, because Taiwan has been still in a very, very complicated situation.

我認為這對半個世紀後的今天也很有啟發，因為臺灣仍然處於非常、非常複雜的局勢中。

I think that we hope the chips is just a service.

我認為，我們希望芯片只是一種服務。

What's beneath is the resilience, and that actually will become a Taiwan can really survive, and also moving forward to really among all the headwinds, that really lies behind is the resilience spirit.

其背後是堅韌不拔的精神，而這實際上也將成為臺灣能夠真正生存下來，並在所有逆風中真正前進的動力。

Rocky, what do you think is the key conditions that allow Taiwan to create the semiconductor miracles?

洛基，你認為臺灣創造半導體奇蹟的關鍵條件是什麼？

Yeah, remember in the movie, they interview one of the engineers who were sent to RCA to study how to make chips.

是的，記得在電影中，他們採訪了一位被派往 RCA 研究如何製造芯片的工程師。

One of them, he answered the question, he said, by that time when we were there, we noticed that most of the American workers, their educational background, only high school or even primary school, that's what he said.

其中一個人在回答問題時說，當時我們在那裡，注意到大多數美國工人的教育背景，只有高中甚至小學，他就是這麼說的。

So in the back to 1990s, after TSMC was founded, it was easy for them to hire those graduate students from National Taiwan University, Tsinghua University, Chiao Tung University.

是以，早在 20 世紀 90 年代，臺積電成立之後，他們就很容易從臺灣大學、清華大學和交通大學聘請到研究所學生。

So people will say, oh, they are overqualified.

是以，人們會說，哦，他們資質過高。

They are doing fundamental jobs, engineer jobs, overqualified.

他們從事的是基礎性工作、工程師工作，超額完成任務。

Because by that time, Morris Jones designed a system of the stock sharing, right?

因為那時，莫里斯-瓊斯設計了一套股票共享系統，對嗎？

So it was really a good job, good return.

所以，這真是一份好工作、好回報。

So I would say that because of the talent, we are attracted, the system attracted a lot of good talents to go into this industry.

所以我想說，因為人才，我們被吸引了，這個系統吸引了很多優秀人才進入這個行業。

這就是為什麼我們變得如此有競爭力。

And do you still think that at this current moment, as Ben mentioned, that we are still facing very high international pressure at this current moment.

你是否仍然認為，在當前這個時刻，正如本所提到的，我們仍然面臨著非常大的國際壓力。

So do you still think that talent is still the key for Taiwan to move forward this industry?

那麼，您是否仍然認為人才仍然是臺灣推動這一產業發展的關鍵？

Because when you're talking about the international situation, I believe you're talking about the geopolitics, right?

因為當你談到國際形勢時，我相信你說的是地緣政治，對嗎？

Most of the origins of the geopolitics are from the competition between great powers, especially China and the US, right?

地緣政治的起源大多來自大國之間的競爭，尤其是中美之間的競爭，對嗎？

So we like to, I mean, Taiwan needs to preserve our competitive edge.

是以，我們希望，我是說，臺灣需要保持我們的競爭優勢。

And that comes from the technology and the technology investing in talent's mind.

而這一切都源於技術，源於技術對人才心智的投資。

So we have to cultivate, keep those competitive edge.

是以，我們必須培養和保持這些競爭優勢。

Those are embedded in those talents' brains.

這些都植入了這些人才的大腦。

So I wanted to highlight one of the statistics here.

是以，我想在這裡強調一個統計數據。

So according to Trend4's latest report, TSMC, they maintain its dominant position in the global foundry market in the first quarter of this year, holding a 667.6% share.

是以，根據 Trend4 的最新報告，臺積電在今年第一季度保持了其在全球代工市場的主導地位，佔有 667.6% 的份額。

And the later half of the film discussed the US-China tech war and the challenges that

影片的後半部分討論了中美科技戰以及中美科技戰帶來的挑戰。

Taiwan is facing right now under the Trump 2.0.

臺灣目前正面臨特朗普 2.0 的衝擊。

So Ben, as now there are various, multiple countries, they are hoping to localize their chip manufacturing, such as the US Chip Act.

所以，本，因為現在有不同的、多個國家，他們希望將芯片製造本地化，比如美國芯片法案。

So how do you think Taiwan can strike a balance between preserving our own competitiveness and strength, but at the same time, strengthening international cooperation?

那麼，您認為臺灣如何才能在保持自身競爭力和實力的同時，加強國際合作？

Yeah, I think TSMC, no doubt, is going to expand globally.

是的，我認為臺積電毫無疑問會在全球範圍內擴張。