Name: 「宛如透過鑰匙孔窺探！」－克萊瑞莎・沃德談伊朗通訊全面封鎖下的採訪祕辛 ("Like Looking Through A Keyhole" - Clarissa Ward On Reporting Amid A Communications Blackout In Iran)
Uploaded: 2026-03-12T17:10:29.000Z
Duration: 7 min 4 s

My first guest tonight is a Peabody Award winning journalist and CNN's chief international correspondent.

今晚我的第一位來賓是一位獲得奧斯卡獎的記者，也是 CNN 的首席國際特派員。

Please welcome back to THE LATE SHOW, Clarissa Ward.

讓我們再次歡迎來到 THE LATE SHOW 的 Clarissa Ward。

Now, you're not here with us right now because you're abroad covering the war in Iran.

現在，妳人不在這裡，因為妳在國外報導伊朗的戰爭。

I am in the lovely city of Erbil in northern Iraq in Iraqi Kurdistan, about 60 miles from the border with Iran.

我現在在伊拉克庫德斯坦北部的埃爾比勒，一個美麗的城市，離伊朗邊境大約 60 英里。

Secretary Hegseth has told us that the attack on Iran is continuing and growing.

Hegseth 祕書告訴我們，對伊朗的攻擊正在持續且擴大。

Every day there where you are, do you see sorties of American flights and missiles going in right now?

妳們那裡每天都會看到美國的飛機和飛彈正在進行突襲嗎？

我們有時候會聽到天空中有噴射機的聲音。

It's not clear whose jets those would be.

Presumably the US Although possibly is Israel as well.

應該是美國的，但也可能是以色列的。

What we hear more here, in fact, we heard them just a little while before coming on the show.

事實上，我們在這裡聽到的更多，在節目開始前不久我們就聽到了。

Drone attacks, some missile attacks, too, and

還有無人機攻擊，以及一些飛彈攻擊，

those are targeting US Bases, sometimes hotels, sometimes Iranian, Kurdish opposition groups sometimes.

這些攻擊的目標是美國基地，有時是飯店，有時是伊朗、庫德族的反對派團體。

But they are coming in pretty regularly and certainly pretty much every single night.

但它們幾乎每天晚上都相當規律地出現。

Well, Secretary Hegseth has said that this, this war is just at the beginning.

嗯，Hegseth 祕書說，這場戰爭才剛開始。

川普說這場戰爭已經非常完整了。

There's been a sort of vagueness and definition of what victory or an exit strategy is or what the goals are from where you are and what you're hearing.

關於勝利或撤軍策略的定義，或是你的目標是什麼，你聽到的消息，一直有些模糊不清。

Do you have any greater sense of what the purpose or the end game might be here?

你對這裡的目標或最終結局有什麼更明確的感覺嗎？

You know, Stephen, my good friend journalist Holligrani today quoted Machiavelli who wrote, wars will begin when you will, but

你知道，Stephen，我一位好朋友記者 Holligrani 今天引用了馬基維利的說法，他說，戰爭可以隨你意願開始，

So I think this war is particularly disconcerting in the sense that it is so difficult to prognosticate or predict when it will end, how far it will unravel, how far the repercussions will reach.

所以我覺得這場戰爭特別令人不安，因為很難預測或判斷它何時會結束，會蔓延多廣，後果會有多嚴重。

We're talking about 13 or 14 countries have now become embroiled in one way or another with this conflict.

我們談到有 13、14 個國家以某種方式捲入了這場衝突。

I'm not sure that that was part of the calculus going into this.

我不確定這是否是當初考量的一部分。

And most importantly, let's just talk for a second about the Iranian people, because for all the declarations from the US From President Trump, from Israel's Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu about Iranians, take to the street, take your country back.

最重要的是，讓我們來談談伊朗人民，因為儘管美國總統川普和以色列總理班傑明·納坦雅胡都宣稱，伊朗人民要走上街頭，奪回你們的國家。

The Iranians, the few Iranians that we've been able to get in touch with because obviously there has been an Internet blackout since, since this war began, are mostly hiding.

我們聯繫到的少數伊朗人，因為這場戰爭開始後網路就一直被封鎖，他們大多都在躲藏。

They're hiding from relentless bombardment.

They're hiding from a brutal regime that has made very clear that they will shoot to kill if anyone dares to take to the streets.

他們躲避著一個殘酷的政權，這個政權已經非常明確地表示，如果有人敢走上街頭，他們就會開槍射殺。

And for those ordinary Iranian people, I can only imagine how horrifying it is right now to have just so little sense of where this is going and what the metric is from victory for the United States.

對那些普通的伊朗人民來說，我只能想像現在他們有多麼恐懼，因為他們完全不知道這場衝突會走向何方，也不知道美國的勝利標準是什麼。

Do you have some sense of how this is being received by the countries that are affected by this, the ones who have been attacked in response to the United States and Israel's bombing of Iran?

你對那些受這場衝突影響的國家，那些因美國和以色列轟炸伊朗而遭到攻擊的國家，他們如何看待這件事，有什麼感覺嗎？

I think for all of these countries that have come under fire now, retaliatory fire from Iran, whether it's the Gulf countries, whether it's Iraqi Kurdistan, where I am, there is a sense of dread like, oh, my God, not this again.

我認為對於所有這些現在遭受砲火攻擊的國家，來自伊朗的報復性砲火，無論是海灣國家，還是我所在的伊拉克庫德斯坦，都有一種恐懼感，像是「天啊，又來了」。

Are we seriously going to get dragged into some protracted regional conflagration which has the potential to escalate in so many different ways?

我們真的會被捲入一場可能以各種不同方式升級的長期區域性戰火嗎？

You know, when you think back to the US invasion of Iraq in 2003, and

你知道，回想 2003 年美國入侵伊拉克時，

everybody kind of laughed at then Secretary of Defense Donald Rumsfeld when he talked about the known knowns and then the unknown unknowns, and

當時國防部長 Donald Rumsfeld 談到已知與未知的未知，大家都在笑他，

I think for the people who live here, it's the fear of the unknown unknowns and the fear that maybe no one in the White House right now is really trying to get to grips with what those unknowns might be in order to potentially mitigate this getting even bloodier and even uglier.

我想對於住在這裡的人來說，他們害怕的是未知的未知，以及白宮裡現在可能沒有人在真正試圖掌握這些未知，以避免情況變得更血腥、更難看。

As you said, that there's, there's a news blackout in Iran.

正如你所說，伊朗有新聞封鎖。

What are the stories that were possibly missing here in the region because there isn't a way to actually convey the reality on the ground.

因為沒有辦法真正傳達當地真實情況，這個地區可能錯過了哪些報導？

Well, first of all, I really want to give a big shout out to my colleague Fred Plaikin, who was just inside Iran for a week and working under inclusion, incredibly stressful and dangerous conditions and doing really important reporting.

嗯，首先，我真的很想大力稱讚我的同事 Fred Plaikin，他剛在伊朗待了一週，在極度壓力與危險的環境下工作，做了非常重要的報導。

But I think he would be the first to admit that you are very challenged, even when you are lucky enough to actually be on the ground in Iran to really talk to people because they are so frightened.

但我想他會第一個承認，即使你幸運地能在伊朗當地，要真正跟人們交談也非常困難，因為他們太害怕了。

And so what we are missing right now so clearly is the humanity of this.

所以我們現在非常清楚地錯過了這件事的人性面。

We're not seeing the mothers of those 168 children who were killed, almost certainly by a U.S. tomahawk.

我們看不到那 168 位被殺害的孩子的母親們，她們幾乎可以肯定是死於美國的戰斧飛彈。

We're not seeing the people hiding in their bathrooms, clutching their children as the ceiling comes down.

我們看不到那些躲在浴室裡，緊抱著孩子，看著天花板崩塌的人們。

We're not seeing people who were cheering when the Ayatollah, when the supreme Leader was killed, but

我們看不到那些之前為阿亞圖拉、為最高領袖被殺而歡呼的人們，但是

who have now been told that if there are more reports coming from that apartment block that anyone's cheering or booing that they will be raided, and

現在他們被告知，如果再有來自那棟公寓樓的報導，說有人在歡呼或噓聲，他們就會被突襲，

the fear that they live with, the trauma that they went through in January, more than 7,000 people massacred for taking to the streets and demanding freedom and a better future.

他們所承受的恐懼，他們在一月份經歷的創傷，七千多人因為走上街頭爭取自由和更好的未來而被屠殺。

We are not getting that texture, that layer of complexity and humanity, which, frankly, as a war correspondent, to be trying to cover this, it feels like you are looking through a keyhole.

我們無法獲得那種細膩感、那種複雜性和人性的層次，坦白說，作為一名戰地記者，試圖報導這一切，感覺就像透過鎖孔在看。

And it's incredibly frustrating and humbling.

But it is what it is, and we continue to try to do the best that we can.

但這就是現實，我們會繼續盡力而為。

We'll be right back with more Clarissa Ward, everybody.

馬上回來，還有更多 Clarissa Ward 的報導。