Name: 伊朗：德國梅爾茲避開川普批評，英國、西班牙卻面臨川普盛怒！ | DW 新聞 (Iran: Germany's Merz avoids Trump's criticism as UK, Spain, face Trump's anger | DW News)
Uploaded: 2026-03-04T06:18:29.000Z
Duration: 17 min 55 s

Well, the strong endorsement Chancellor Merz received in the Oval Office is in stark contrast with what we heard the president say about several other European leaders tonight.

總理梅爾茨在橢圓形辦公室獲得了強有力的支持，這與我們今晚聽到的總統對其他幾位歐洲領導人的說法形成了鮮明對比。

Donald Trump said he told his Treasury Secretary to cut all trade with Spain after the Spanish Prime Minister, Pedro Sanchez, refused to allow the US to use its airbase in Spain for missions against Iran.

唐納·川普說，他告訴他的財政部長，在西班牙總理佩德羅·桑切斯拒絕允許美國使用其在西班牙的空軍基地執行對伊朗的任務後，要切斷與西班牙的所有貿易。

The Trump administration is also at odds with one of its closest allies, the United Kingdom.

川普政府也與其最親密的盟友之一英國意見不合。

president said tonight that he was not happy with the UK and that's after the British Prime Minister, Sakiya Starmer, initially refused permission to use the British to use its airbase Diego Garcia, to attack Iran.

總統今晚表示，他對英國不滿，此前英國首相薩基亞·斯塔默最初拒絕允許英國使用其迭戈·加西亞空軍基地攻擊伊朗。

Later, the Prime Minister allowed the bases to be used for what he called defensive purposes.

後來，首相允許基地用於他所謂的防禦目的。

This government does not believe in regime change from the skies.

這個政府不相信從天而降的政權更迭。

That the lessons of history have taught us that it is important when we make decisions like this that we establish there is a lawful basis for what the United Kingdom is doing.

歷史的教訓告訴我們，當我們做出這樣的決定時，建立一個合法的基礎來支持英國的行動是很重要的。

That is one of the lessons from Iraq and that there's a viable thought through plan with an objective that can be achieved or has a viable prospect of being achieved.

這是從伊拉克學到的教訓之一，而且有一個可行的、經過深思熟慮的計劃，有一個可以實現的目標，或者有實現的可能。

Let's explore some of these issues and more of these issues arising between Washington and Europe.

我們來探討一下華盛頓和歐洲之間出現的這些問題，以及更多相關議題。

Jeff Ratke is president of the German American Institute in Washington.

傑夫·拉特克是華盛頓德美研究所的所長。

He's a former US Diplomat with more than two decades of experience in European and transatlantic affairs, having previously served at NATO and at the U.S.

他是前美國外交官，在歐洲和跨大西洋事務方面有二十多年的經驗，曾任職於北約和美國駐柏林大使館。

We heard President Trump say Germany's doing great over Iran.

我們聽到川普總統說德國在伊朗問題上做得很好。

Why is he saying that when Germany's support has been so equivocal?

為什麼他會這麼說，而德國的支持卻如此模稜兩可？

Well, I think the President was mostly drawing a contrast to the countries he was looking to berate during this Oval Office interlude.

嗯，我認為總統主要是為了與他在橢圓形辦公室這段期間想責罵的國家做對比。

It's true that Germany has not stood in the way in, in the way that Spain has, for example.

確實，德國並沒有像西班牙那樣阻礙。

But it's also pretty clear that the United States is not looking for major material contributions from its European allies in this war against Iran.

但也很清楚，美國在這場對抗伊朗的戰爭中，並不期望歐洲盟友做出重大的實質貢獻。

That's really interesting that you say that, because I think we've seen this pattern before where the Americans lead others into an adventure, into a foreign adventure.

你這樣說真的很有意思，因為我認為我們以前就看過這種模式了，美國人會帶領其他人去冒險，去一場海外冒險。

Then afterwards, there is talk of allies and others coming together and raising money for the reconstruction.

然後事後，大家就會開始談論盟友和其他人要聚在一起，為重建籌集資金。

Can you see America turning to its allies and saying, well, yeah, I know we didn't involve you, we didn't consult you, but

你覺得美國會轉向盟友說，嗯，是啊，我知道我們沒有讓你們參與，沒有諮詢你們，但是

now here is the thing that needs rebuilding.

Well, it's a possibility, I guess, but I think we're a long way away from that.

嗯，我猜這是有可能的，但我覺得我們離那一步還很遠。

I think one of the most striking things about the question and answer period in the Oval Office today was Trump acknowledging that the United States really doesn't have much of a plan for what comes next.

我認為今天在橢圓形辦公室問答環節中最令人驚訝的一件事是，川普承認美國對於接下來會發生什麼，真的沒有什麼計畫。

And I think you saw in that respect, Friedrich Merz coming back multiple times to this concern Germany has about the day after.

關於德國對「之後」的擔憂，你看到弗里德里希·梅爾茨（Friedrich Merz）在這方面多次重申。

And Trump admitted that even the sort of people who might take over in Iran have mostly been killed in the attacks.

川普也承認，即使是可能接管伊朗的那些人，大部分也都在攻擊中喪生了。

And so he was unable to specify where things go from here.

所以他無法具體說明接下來的走向。

And I think that's certainly got to be troubling for, for countries like Germany and America's European allies, who in normal circumstances would probably want to be part of a solution and putting this back on a more even keel.

我認為這肯定讓像德國和美國的歐洲盟友這樣的國家感到不安，在正常情況下，他們通常會想參與解決方案，讓事情恢復平穩。

But it's unclear where the, where this trip is taking us.

但這個行程到底會把我們帶往何處，還不清楚。

You see, that's really interesting because again, we heard the German chancellor say, yeah, we need to talk about what happens the day after, but

你看，這真的很耐人尋味，因為我們又聽到了德國總理說，對，我們需要談談「之後」會發生什麼，但是

this is an administration that I just wonder if that we is doing a lot of heavy lifting there.

這個政府，我只是在想，他們是不是做了很多吃力不討好的工作。

I wonder if the German chancellor is actually kidding himself when he says that we will talk about it because the words might be exchanged, but

我在想，德國總理說我們會談談，是不是在自欺欺人，因為話語或許會交換，但

Well, I don't think the chancellor has an inflated view of his ability to shape how Donald Trump approaches the war that he and the Israeli government are carrying out in Iran right now.

嗯，我不認為總理對他影響川普處理目前他與以色列政府在伊朗進行的戰爭的能力有過高的評價。

I think what the chancellor most likely wants to understand is what the United States intentions are and then to be able to understand how that might affect German or European interests.

我想總理最想了解的，應該是美國的意圖是什麼，然後才能知道這可能會如何影響德國或歐洲的利益。

We are not in one of those earlier conflicts, as you already mentioned, where the United States is asking its allies to, to be involved on the ground or in some major way in reconstruction.

就像你剛才提到的，我們這次不像以前那些衝突，美國會要求盟友在地面上或重建工作上，以某種主要方式參與。

That doesn't seem to be the way the United States is going about this.

In fact, the United States is really asking very little of its closest allies right now.

事實上，美國現在對它最親近的盟友，要求真的很少。

People have been comparing this attack on Iran to previous Gulf wars, but

大家都在拿這次對伊朗的攻擊，跟過去的波斯灣戰爭做比較，但是

what we have here is no attempt by the United States to try and form any sort of wider coalition beyond Israel.

這次美國並沒有試圖組成一個，除了以色列之外更廣泛的聯盟。

Well, I think that tells us, on the one hand, that the United States believes that this war will be manageable within the resources the United States has.

嗯，我認為這一方面告訴我們，美國認為這場戰爭在美國現有的資源內是可以應付的。

The second thing I think is the United States does not want to be constrained by the expectations or requirements of its allies in how it conducts a war.

第二點，我認為美國不想在戰爭的進行方式上受到盟友期望或要求的限制。

You know, we heard just yesterday the US Secretary of defense disparagingly talking about rules of engagement.

你知道，我們昨天才聽到美國國防部長貶低地談論交戰規則。

And so I don't think President Trump is interested in having European allies conceptions of the rule of law and of international humanitarian law and the laws of war intrude onto his approach to Iran in this particular case.

所以我認為川普總統對歐洲盟友關於法治、國際人道法和戰爭法的觀念，幹預他處理伊朗問題的方式，並不感興趣。

And so I think there it's in some ways perhaps a comfortable position.

所以，我認為這在某些方面或許是一個舒服的位置。

President Trump can talk to Chancellor Merz, but he's not asking the chancellor for anything specific.

川普總統可以跟總理梅爾茨談話，但他並沒有向總理提出任何具體要求。

And at the same time, the chancellor is not being dragged into the conflict in the way that previous US Administrations have tried to involve their European allies in various military actions and indeed, wars.

同時，總理也不會像過去的美國政府試圖讓歐洲盟友參與各種軍事行動，甚至戰爭那樣被拖入衝突。

Okay, so we have the Chancellor Meirz arguing, and

好的，所以我們有總理梅爾茨主張，

indeed the French president arguing, lots of people arguing that Europe has to become more strategically independent from Washington.

事實上法國總統也主張，很多人主張歐洲必須從華盛頓獲得更大的戰略獨立。

Does his latest war in the Middle east, does that strengthen that case or just expose Europe's continued dependence on the U.S.

他最近在中東的戰爭，是加強了這個論點，還是隻是暴露了歐洲對美國的持續依賴？

well, I think it highlights the dependence because one of the other questions that hangs in the background during this war is that the United States is expending a large amount of its munitions in carrying out the strikes and also in intercepting the air defense and missile defense mission.

嗯，我認為這凸顯了這種依賴，因為在這場戰爭期間，另一個懸而未決的問題是，美國在執行打擊任務以及攔截防空和飛彈防禦任務時，正在消耗大量的彈藥。

The European allies have been dependent on the ability to purchase supplies from the United States in order to donate them to Ukraine.

歐洲盟友一直依賴從美國購買物資，以便捐贈給烏克蘭。

One can only ask questions at this point.

the ability of the United States to continue providing those kinds of munitions to Ukraine via European buyers will rise the longer the American war in Iran continues.

隨著美國在伊朗的戰爭持續越久，美國透過歐洲買家繼續向烏克蘭提供這類彈藥的能力就會上升。

And so that presents in very stark relief the problem that Europeans have of their weapons dependency on the United States and the need to ramp up their own industrial capacity in order to be able to dedicate it to priorities that European leaders set for themselves.

這就非常清楚地凸顯了歐洲在武器上對美國的依賴問題，以及他們需要提升自身的工業產能，以便能將其用於歐洲領導人為自己設定的優先事項。

So on that, European leadership clearly got the message from the US they are no longer a strategic priority.

所以在這方面，歐洲領導層顯然已經收到美國的訊息，他們不再是戰略優先事項了。

Everybody agrees that they have to become more independent.

大家都同意他們必須變得更獨立。

Are you even close to being certain that a clear, coherent policy on strategic independence from the US Will ever emerge, never mind actually being executed?

你確定歐洲會制定出一個清晰、連貫的對美戰略獨立政策嗎？更不用說實際執行了。

Well, it's not going to emerge in the sense that a single European statesman or stateswoman is going to lay it out neatly and tidily in a speech that everyone will recognize, nod their heads and say, okay, now we have a vision of strategic autonomy or of independence or whatever label you want to put on it, I think because it will have to emerge from among European countries that are much closer to being peers than the United States is towards European allies.

嗯，這不會是那種由某位歐洲政治家在演講中清晰、整齊地闡述，讓大家一看就點頭稱是，然後說「好，現在我們有了戰略自主或獨立的願景，或是你想要貼上的任何標籤」那樣出現的。我認為這是因為它必須在歐洲國家之間產生，這些國家比美國對待歐洲盟友時，更像是彼此之間的夥伴。

This will have to arise through a process of negotiation and coalition building rather than through someone laying down the law the way American presidents have often felt able to do toward Europe.

這將需要透過協商和建立聯盟的過程來產生，而不是像美國總統經常能對歐洲做的那樣，由某人來制定規則。

It's going to need to be a messy compromise.

Thanks so much for talking us through that.

Jeff Ratke from the American German Institute, thanks for the invitation.

感謝邀請，來自德美研究所的傑夫·拉特克。

Well, let's see what the German chancellor may or may not have achieved with this visit with Tyson Barker.

嗯，讓我們看看德國總理這次訪問泰森·巴克，可能達成或沒達成什麼。

Tyson's a non resident senior fellow at the Atlantic Council here in Berlin.

泰森是這裡柏林大西洋理事會的非常駐高級研究員。

So the chancellor and the president do seem to have got on well again.

所以總理和總統似乎又相處得不錯。

Is that as much as Chancellor Matz could hope for?

這就是總理梅爾茨所能期望的嗎？

Well, this was a press camera spray before the substantive meeting.

嗯，這是在實質性會議前的媒體拍照時間。

So obviously you want to go into that meeting having done no harm.

所以很明顯，你希望在進行這次會議前，不要有任何損害。

And to the extent that the optics were right for the chancellor, I think that that was successful.

我認為，就總理而言，如果這次的形象不錯，那就算成功了。

That said, you know, he has a couple of offensive interests that are being crowded out by the war in Iran, specifically around keeping the United States on regards Ukraine.

也就是說，你知道，他有一些攻擊性的利益，但因為伊朗的戰爭而被擠壓了，特別是在美國對烏克蘭的態度上。

And there are some, you know, unsettling words from President Trump on that front.

而且，你知道，川普總統在這方面也說了一些令人不安的話。

And then the second is, of course, making some advancements on, on trade issues, trying to get some stability and guardrails in place for the trade relationship.

其次，當然是希望在貿易議題上取得一些進展，試圖為貿易關係建立一些穩定性和護欄。

And that's still an open question as to how that will look.

這仍然是一個懸而未決的問題，不知道最終會是什麼樣子。

Friedrich Merz has said that Germany and the US Are on the same page in ending what he called the terrible Iranian regime.

Friedrich Merz 表示，德國和美國在結束他所謂的「可怕的伊朗政權」這件事上是立場一致的。

Yet Berlin has ruled out taking part in this attack.

不過，柏林已經排除參與這次攻擊的可能性。

And the chancellor said today that we have to look at the strategy that follows the fall of the Iranian regime.

總理今天說，我們必須看看伊朗政權垮臺後的策略。

I wonder is that we wishful thinking, is Germany likely to be in that particular loop?

我在想，這是不是一廂情願的想法，德國有可能會參與其中嗎？

I don't even know if the United States is going to be in that loop.

我甚至不知道美國會不會參與其中。

To be quite frank, it doesn't seem that the administration has messaged that they are going to take a role in what comes next.

坦白說，看起來政府並沒有傳達他們會在新局勢中扮演角色的訊息。

Obviously, they've taken a decapitation offensive with the Israelis, but

顯然，他們和以色列一起發動了斬首行動，但是

I think that they're quite satisfied with the operation as it played out in Venezuela, where you remove the top layer of leadership and then kind of see where the chips fall where they may, as much as they are preserving, you know, an intact structure.

我認為他們對在委內瑞拉發生的行動感到相當滿意，也就是移除最高層領導，然後看看情況如何發展，盡可能地保留一個完整的結構。

I think that if you looked at the body language of President Trump when he, when Matt's mentioned that a couple of times, it wasn't as positive as in other points of the conversation.

我認為，如果你看川普總統在 Matt 幾次提到這件事時的肢體語言，並沒有像談話中其他部分那樣積極。

Why do you think the chancellor is being so equivocal about supporting the US And Israel?

你認為總理為什麼對支持美國和以色列的態度如此含糊其辭？

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伊朗：德國梅爾茲避開川普批評，英國、西班牙卻面臨川普盛怒！ | DW 新聞 (Iran: Germany's Merz avoids Trump's criticism as UK, Spain, face Trump's anger | DW News)

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