Name: 馬克·凱利稱哈米尼之死是「好事」，但抨擊伊朗缺乏「計畫」：完整專訪 (Mark Kelly calls Khamenei’s death a ‘good thing’ but slams lack of 'plan' in Iran: Full interview)
Uploaded: 2026-03-01T23:08:35.000Z
Duration: 8 min 37 s

And joining me now is Democratic Senator Mark Kelly of Arizona.

現在和我一起的是亞利桑那州的民主黨參議員 Mark Kelly。

Senator Kelly, welcome back to Meet THE press.

參議員 Kelly，歡迎回來 Meet THE press。

Let me start with what you just heard from Senator Lindsey Graham.

讓我先從你剛才聽到的 Lindsey Graham 參議員的發言開始。

You heard him argue the world is now safer because the supreme leader of Iran is dead.

你聽到他說，因為伊朗的最高領導人死了，現在世界更安全了。

參議員，現在世界更安全了嗎？

I mean, it's a good thing that the supreme leader is gone and some of the folks around him.

我的意思是，最高領導人和他身邊的一些人走了，這是好事。

And I have to give a shout out to the young men and women of the US Military who, you know by their skill and, you know, focus on the mission and determination and patriotism, were able to conduct this operation.

而且我必須讚揚美國軍隊的年輕男女，他們憑藉他們的技能、專注於任務的精神、決心和愛國心，成功執行了這次行動。

But what I also heard from Lindsey and we saw in the president's tweet earlier today, is they're talking about hope.

但我也聽到 Lindsey 參議員，以及我們今天稍早看到總統的推文，他們都在談論希望。

The president said, hopefully, Lindsey a number of times said, we hope.

總統說，希望，Lindsey 參議員也說了好幾次，我們希望。

I mean, what is the, what is the strategic goal and how do we achieve it?

我的意思是，我們的策略目標是什麼？我們要如何達成它？

And my job here in the United States Senate is to make sure that this administration, you know, has a plan and doesn't put Americans, especially U.S.

而我在美國參議院的工作，就是要確保這個政府，你知道，有個計畫，而且不會讓美國人，特別是美國軍隊成員，面臨更大的風險。

Well, and you, of course, flew combat missions during the Gulf War.

你當然在波斯灣戰爭期間執行過作戰任務。

Broadly speaking, do you support this military operation?

總的來說，你支持這次軍事行動嗎？

Well, I want to see a strategy, and I mean, broadly.

嗯，我想要看到一個策略，我的意思是，總的來說。

I mean, the president said the Iranian nuclear capability was obliterated last summer.

我的意思是，總統說伊朗的核武能力在去年夏天被摧毀了。

So is this about that, or is it about ballistic missiles?

所以這是關於那件事，還是關於彈道飛彈？

Lindsey talked about ballistic missiles being able to range the United States, you know, reach the continental United States.

Lindsey 提到彈道飛彈能夠打到美國本土，你知道的，打到美國大陸。

現在，他不是那個意思，但是。

But they're trying to achieve it, which is true.

但他們正在努力達成，這倒是真的。

所以，迫在眉睫的威脅是什麼？

Or is this about, you know, getting rid of the entire regime, which is really challenging?

還是這是關於，你知道的，要推翻整個政權，這真的很具挑戰性？

My concern here, you know, going forward is what happens now.

我這裡的擔憂，你知道的，接下來會發生什麼。

We saw in Iraq that in 2006, Saddam Hussein was finally killed, and

我們在伊拉克看到，在2006年，薩達姆·海珊終於被殺了，然後

then over more than a decade, we lost 1500Americans.

然後十幾年過去，我們損失了 1500 名美國人。

I don't want to see a wide conflict in the Middle East.

我不想看到中東發生大規模衝突。

Well, Senator Lindsey Graham says that it is possible to carry out this military operation without putting US Boots on the ground.

參議員 Lindsey Graham 說，這次軍事行動可以在不派美軍地面部隊的情況下進行。

Do you think it is possible to continue with this military operation without putting US Boots on the ground.

你認為這次軍事行動有可能在不派美軍地面部隊的情況下進行嗎？

I mean, for somebody, you know, myself, I've, you know, used air power in defense of this country.

我的意思是，對我來說，你知道的，我曾利用空軍力量來保衛這個國家。

You could even, you know, based on what happened, you know, previously, you could this summer, you know, you can even hit underground targets.

甚至，你知道的，根據之前發生的事，你知道的，今年夏天，你知道的，你甚至可以攻擊地下目標。

But eliminating things and fully taking out a capability is really challenging without putting people there on the ground.

但要消滅事物並完全摧毀一個能力，如果沒有人親自到場，那真的很有挑戰性。

Well, you know, let me ask you, because as you think about how long this military operation might be, President Trump effectively said, look, it's going to last at least the week ahead of the strikes.

嗯，你知道的，讓我問你，因為你考慮到這次軍事行動可能會持續多久，川普總統實際上說，看，在這次打擊之前，至少會持續一週。

vance said, quote, There is no chance the U.S. will be drawn into a prolonged war with Iran.

Vance 說，引述：「美國沒有機會捲入與伊朗的長期戰爭。」

Do you accept that or do you think it's possible that this could become a prolonged military engagement?

你同意嗎？還是你認為這有可能變成一場長期的軍事對抗？

And that's why we need to get back in Washington and have a discussion with the White House on this and have a vote.

這也是為什麼我們需要回到華盛頓，和白宮討論這件事，並進行投票。

Hey, you got the president and the vice president saying things that are 180 degrees out right in one hand not going to be prolonged and the other it could be a drawn out conflict.

嘿，總統和副總統的說法完全是前後矛盾，一方面說不會延長，另一方面又說可能會是場漫長的衝突。

Which one is it and what is your plan going forward?

到底哪個是真的？你們接下來的計畫是什麼？

And by the way, Kristen, I mean, if the Iranians decide to shut down the Straits of Hormuz, what is the plan there?

順帶一提，Kristen，如果伊朗人決定封鎖荷姆茲海峽，那你們的計畫是什麼？

Because you're going to put a huge number of service members at risk.

因為這會讓大量的軍人面臨風險。

And on the other side, if you don't do something about it, we could wind up with significant, a significant economic hit to the worldwide economy.

另一方面，如果我們什麼都不做，可能會對全球經濟造成重大的衝擊。

So these are complicated scenarios and complicated decisions.

所以這些都是複雜的狀況和艱難的決定。

And I think this administration, my sense is that they did not go into this with any kind of strategic plan.

我認為這個政府，我的感覺是他們並沒有任何策略計畫就進入了這件事。

It was an operation with no, nothing, no discussion about what comes next.

這只是一個行動，沒有後續的討論。

Let me ask you, speaking of the plan and the reaction from Capitol Hill, this is what Democratic Senator Jackie Rosen had to say about the strikes on Saturday.

讓我問你，說到計畫和國會的反應，這就是民主黨參議員 Jackie Rosen 在週六對這次襲擊的看法。

你可以在另一邊看到你的回應。

She says Iran can never be allowed to obtain a nuclear weapon.

她說絕對不能讓伊朗獲得核武。

Iran's support for ballistic missiles and terrorist proxies are some of the leading national security threats to the U.S.

伊朗對彈道飛彈和恐怖組織代理人的支持，是美國面臨的主要國安威脅之一。

Now, she does believe Congress should authorize any military action.

現在，她確實認為國會應該授權任何軍事行動。

But do you agree with her central point, which is that Iran's military program and nuclear program did in fact pose a threat to the the United States?

但你同意她提出的核心論點嗎？也就是伊朗的軍事計畫和核武計畫確實對美國構成威脅？

And we can't allow Iran to get a nuclear weapon.

而且我們不能讓伊朗獲得核武。

But you've got to remember this president tore up the Iran deal in his first administration and they were not close to what we call breakout capability with the enrichment of uranium.

但你得記住，這位總統在他的第一個任期就撕毀了伊朗協議，當時他們距離我們所說的鈾濃縮突破能力還很遠。

They weren't that close to getting a weapon.

After that was torn up, they went further.

那份協議被撕毀後，他們反而走得更遠了。

There was some damage done this past summer.

過去這個夏天，確實造成了一些損害。

We have a lot of information about where their programs are.

我們有很多關於他們計畫進展的資訊。

Iran was not an imminent threat to the homeland.

伊朗對美國本土並沒有迫在眉睫的威脅。

Again, I'm going to reiterate, Khamenei being dead is a very positive thing for the region.

我再說一次，哈米尼的死亡對該地區來說是件非常好的事。

But we have a lot of service members there, a lot of equities.

但我們在那裡有許多軍人，也有很多利益。

They've got the, you know, the Houthis and Hamas that are, you know, in the region, Hezbollah.

他們有葉門的胡塞武裝和哈瑪斯，還有真主黨。

There are options that the Iranian regime, whoever comes next, has to target US Citizens.

伊朗政權，無論誰接任，都有選項可以攻擊美國公民。

Two more quick critical questions for you.

還有兩個快速的關鍵問題想請教您。

If there is a war powers vote, Senator, will you be a yes?

如果進行戰爭權力表決，參議員，您會投贊成票嗎？

Well, I'm going to have to take a close look at it.

I want to hear from the White House what their strategy is going forward.

我想聽聽白宮接下來的策略是什麼。

I would say at this point it's rather unlikely that it would be, you know, they went into this with, without any discussion with us ahead of time.

我會說，目前來看，這不太可能，他們進行這一切之前，沒有事先跟我們討論過。

And by the way, why on Tuesday during the State of the Union, didn't the president make a case to the American people on why he is going to conduct an attack on Iran?

對了，為什麼總統在週二國情諮文演說時，沒有向美國人民說明他為何要攻擊伊朗？

And then just finally, Secretary Hegseth has had you in his crosshairs.

他鎖定了您和其他的國會議員。

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馬克·凱利稱哈米尼之死是「好事」，但抨擊伊朗缺乏「計畫」：完整專訪 (Mark Kelly calls Khamenei’s death a ‘good thing’ but slams lack of 'plan' in Iran: Full interview)

incredibly

significant

strategy

conflict