Name: 加薩調查中的法證證據保全與重建：可能嗎？ | DW 新聞 (Securing forensic evidence in Gaza investigations while rebuilding - Is it possible? | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-24T17:04:25.000Z
Duration: 9 min 15 s

The UN official responsible for overseeing human rights in the Palestinian territories says Gaza needs to be treated as a crime scene before substantial rebuilding can begin.

聯合國負責巴勒斯坦領土人權事務的官員表示，加薩必須先被視為犯罪現場，才能開始大規模重建。

Flooding caused by winter rains has added to the misery of hundreds of thousands living in makeshift accommodations.

冬季降雨造成的洪水，讓數十萬住在臨時住所的人們更加困苦。

基礎被動語態

But the UN Special Rapporteur, Francesca Albanese, says more investigation is required ahead of a major reconstruction program.

但聯合國特別報告員 Francesca Albanese 表示，在重大重建計畫之前，還需要進一步的調查。

我認為加薩會被重建，而且是可以重建的。

We have rebuilt European cities who had been torn into pieces.

我們曾經重建過被摧毀的歐洲城市。

I really think that it is to be rebuilt, but

without building over a mass, over the mass graves, there should be justice first.

在亂葬崗上方進行重建之前，應該先伸張正義。

Gaza is a crime scene, so first of all should be preserved so that evidence can be collected to document the crimes that have to have to lead to accountability and so that people who have ordered and carried them out and committed them can be held accountable.

加薩是一個犯罪現場，所以首先必須加以保存，以便收集證據，記錄那些必須追究責任的罪行，讓那些下令、執行和犯下罪行的人能夠被追究責任。

He's a forensics expert with 40 years of experience investigating mass graves and war crimes.

他是一位法醫專家，擁有 40 年調查亂葬崗和戰爭罪的經驗。

He has also assisted in identifying victims of terrorist attacks going all the way back to the 2004 Indian Ocean tsunami.

他也協助辨識了自 2004 年印度洋海嘯以來，歷次恐怖攻擊的受害者。

Mr. McNeil, it's good to have you with us.

McNeil 先生，很高興您能加入我們。

I want to get your reaction to what we just heard there from Francesca Albaneza about Gaza should first be treated as a crime scene before it can become a construction site.

我想聽聽您對 Francesca Albaneza 剛才說法的看法，她認為加薩在成為建築工地之前，應該先被視為犯罪現場。

It would seem from what I've seen in the news, that there are many eight parts of Gaza where crimes have been committed and people have been killed.

從新聞中我看到，加薩有許多地方發生了罪行，也有人被殺害。

So I think first of all, what should happen is that assuming that the hostilities have ceased, a tribunal similar to those of the former Yugoslavia and Rwanda should be established.

所以，我認為首先應該做的是，在敵對行動停止後，應該設立一個類似前南斯拉夫和盧安達的法庭。

And first of all, crime scene investigators should locate the victim's bodies.

首先，犯罪現場調查員應該找到罹難者的遺體。

Contact should be made to local and international forensic experts to their availability for rotation.

應該聯繫在地和國際的法醫專家，瞭解他們輪調的可用性。

And that would include forensic anthropologists, pathologists, radiographers and other forensic specialists to form an examination team and a mortuary team.

這將包括法醫人類學家、病理學家、放射師和其他法醫專家，組成一個勘驗小組和一個太平間小組。

Then the sites secure, the sites where human remains might be found, including mass graves, because I understand that many people who were killed were buried in mass graves, respectfully by families and others.

然後，要確保發現人骨遺骸的現場，包括亂葬崗，因為我知道許多被殺害的人被家人或其他親友安葬在亂葬崗裡。

But nevertheless, those graves should be secured.

但即便如此，這些墓地也應該被妥善保護。

And the first thing that a crime scene investigator, one of the things first thing should be to clear the site of any potential ordinance or IEDs, and

犯罪現場調查員，首先要做的事情之一，是清除現場任何潛在的爆炸物或簡易爆炸裝置，然後

then set up a safe, secure temporary mortuary solely for the detailed forensic investigations.

設立一個安全、有保障的臨時太平間，專門用於詳細的法醫調查。

Is all of this possible, in your opinion, considering what the situation is right now in Gaza?

考量到加薩目前的狀況，您認為這一切有可能實現嗎？

We're talking about hundreds of thousands of people who do not have shelter.

我們談論的是數十萬沒有住所的人。

And we're also talking about torrential rains and flooding in the last couple of weeks that may have washed away valuable evidence that forensic scientists maybe could find.

我們也在談論過去幾週的傾盆大雨和洪水，這可能會沖走法醫科學家或許能找到的寶貴證據。

I mean, when you put all of that together, doesn't it seem like we need to worry about the living first?

說真的，把這些狀況加在一起，難道我們不應該先擔心活著的人嗎？

Well, yes, they should be a priority, but

嗯，是的，他們應該是優先考量，但

I'm sure that the living and the relatives of those who die would be keen to seek justice for the loss of their loved ones.

我相信活著的人以及往生者的親屬，都會非常希望能為他們摯愛的逝去尋求正義。

And so it's something that should be done in tandem.

But as far as the forensic work is concerned, the conditions not only for the local people in Gaza, but

但就法醫工作而言，不僅是加薩當地居民，

for those investigating crimes should be taken into consideration.

還有調查罪行的人，他們所處的條件都應該被考慮進去。

That would make any exhumations more challenging.

這會讓任何開棺驗屍的過程更加困難。

And so I think that the time is right when conditions are better and examinations could be carried out safely without disturbing too much of the evidence, then it might be worth waiting until such times as that can be done.

所以我認為，等到條件比較好，而且檢查能夠安全進行，又不會過度幹擾證據的時候，或許值得等到那樣的時機再做。

But, yes, it will be a major challenge, including, for example, setting up a temporary mortuary that should be exclusive only for victims.

但，是的，這將是一個巨大的挑戰，包括，舉例來說，設立一個專門只供罹難者使用的臨時太平間。

And from what I've seen of what's happened in Gaza, it may well be that some sort of construction work should be done to ensure the integrity of that work in a building that I would guess would be used for a number of years, many years, in fact.

而且從我對加薩發生的事所見，或許應該要做一些建築工程，來確保一座我猜測會使用很多年、甚至數十年的建築物的完整性。

You know, in Bosnia, for example, what happened 30 years ago, that work is still going on today.

你知道，以波士尼亞為例，三十年前發生的事，到今天都還在進行。

Can you imagine a time horizon as long as 30 years to also become a reality for Gaza?

你能想像加薩也需要長達三十年的時間來實現嗎？

We're talking about forensics work that could take a long time.

我們談論的是法醫工作，這可能需要很長的時間。

We're also talking about a geopolitical situation in the Gaza Strip that remains volatile and that could reignite at any moment.

我們談論的也是加薩地帶的地緣政治局勢，仍然不穩定，隨時可能再次爆發。

Yes, I mean, I don't suppose that people fully understand how long this work takes.

是的，我的意思是，我認為人們並不完全理解這項工作需要多久。

I mean, obviously politics plays an immense part in all of this.

我的意思是，很明顯政治在這一切中扮演著極其重要的角色。

But as far as the forensic people experts are concerned, they're not interested whatsoever in the politics, geopolitics or whatever.

但就法醫專家而言，他們對政治、地緣政治或任何其他事情完全不感興趣。

They're there to do a job, a similar job to that that they do in their own facilities, in their own countries.

他們在那裡是為了完成工作，就像他們在自己的設施、自己的國家裡所做的工作一樣。

And that's why I think it's important that international experts from around the world, who are objective, will carry out this work as they do in their own home, in their own countries.

這就是為什麼我認為，來自世界各地、客觀的國際專家進行這項工作非常重要，就像他們在家裡、在自己的國家所做的一樣。

And so I don't think we take any of that into consideration at all.

所以我覺得我們根本不會考慮這些。

And so we just go on and do the job that we're asked to do as best we can.

所以我們就繼續盡力做好我們被要求做的。

McNeil, what would you say would be the consequences if investigators, they don't get access to these areas in time, what will happen then?

您認為如果調查人員無法及時進入這些區域，後果會是什麼？會發生什麼事？

Well, as far as the forensic work is concerned, of course it's true that the longer it takes to begin this work, the more challenging it becomes to gather proper evidence of illegal death and, of course, of identification.

嗯，就法醫工作而言，當然，這項工作開始得越晚，要收集非法死亡和身份識別的適當證據就越具挑戰性，這確實是真的。

But that's not a real issue for the forensic experts because I've worked in situations where victims have been buried for 100 years and still been able to identify them.

但這對法醫專家來說不是真正的問題，因為我曾在受害者被埋葬了 100 年後，仍然能夠識別他們的情況下工作過。

So the disruption of work, well, I think that the potential really is too.

所以工作的幹擾，嗯，我認為潛在的影響也太大了。

I mean, I don't know what it would be like in Gaza, but

我的意思是，我不知道加薩會是什麼樣子，但是

in these situations, there are often times where it's in some people's interest to disrupt at work, and

在這些情況下，經常會有人為了幹擾工作而這麼做，

這可能會成為一個重大的安全問題。

I don't know if that's true, and that will be true in Gaza.

我不知道這是否屬實，在加薩是否也會如此。

So it's just one of the many challenges that we have to face.

所以這只是我們必須面對的眾多挑戰之一。

I think that from my experience, especially in Bosnia, a lot of mistakes were made at the beginning, and

我認為根據我的經驗，尤其是在波士尼亞，一開始犯了很多錯誤，

it would seem that it would make sense not to make the same mistakes again.

而且看起來應該要避免重蹈覆轍。

Mr. McNeil, unfortunately, we're out of time.

McNeil 先生，很可惜，我們時間到了。

I'm sorry to interrupt you there, but good talking with you.

很抱歉打斷您，很高興和您聊。

We appreciate your time today, and let's talk again soon.

我們很感謝您今天撥冗，下次再聊。

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加薩調查中的法證證據保全與重建：可能嗎？ | DW 新聞 (Securing forensic evidence in Gaza investigations while rebuilding - Is it possible? | DW News)

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