Name: 烏克蘭總統稱俄羅斯「不想要和平」，將在與川普會面前發表 | BBC News (Ukraine’s president says Russia ‘doesn’t want peace’, ahead of meeting with Donald Trump | BBC News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-28T17:01:59.000Z
Duration: 7 min 48 s

未來進行式

Ukraine's President Zelensky will be meeting with President Donald Trump at Palm beach in Florida on Sunday to discuss the latest peace proposals aimed at ending the war with Russia.

澤倫斯基總統週日將在佛羅裡達的棕櫚灘與總統唐納·川普會面，討論旨在結束與俄羅斯戰爭的最新和平提議。

The European and NATO leaders have expressed their full support for Ukraine ahead of this crucial meeting with the Ukrainian leader consulting with allies.

歐洲和北約領導人在此次關鍵會議前已表達對烏克蘭的全力支持，烏克蘭領導人正與盟友協商。

During a stop off in Canada on his way to Florida, Vladimir Putin said Russia will achieve its goals by force if the Ukrainians refuse to relent.

弗拉基米爾·普丁在前往佛羅裡達途中，於加拿大停留時表示，如果烏克蘭人不讓步，俄羅斯將武力達成目標。

He said there are smart people, his words, in the west, that have been encouraging Ukraine to negotiate an end to the war.

他說，西方有一些聰明人，他說，一直在鼓勵烏克蘭談判結束戰爭。

But Kiev had been reluctant, he said, to do so.

但他表示，基輔一直不願這樣做。

President Zelensky says the relentless Russian attacks over the Christmas period prove the Kremlin is not really serious about peace.

澤倫斯基總統表示，俄羅斯在聖誕節期間持續不斷的攻擊證明克里姆林宮並未真正認真對待和平。

Let's get a life to Kiev and speak to our correspondent Abdul Jalil.

讓我們連線到基輔，與我們的記者阿卜杜勒·賈利勒談談。

阿卜杜勒·蘇拉，很高興見到你。

What do we think will be discussed at this meeting later today?

我們認為今天稍晚的會議將會討論什麼？

Well, on a plane, President Zelenskyy outlined some of the issues that he is going to discuss during the meeting with President Trump.

嗯，在飛機上，澤倫斯基總統概述了他將在與川普總統的會談中討論的一些議題。

One of them is, of course, the issue of territory, which has proven to be one of the most contentious and difficult ones to agree.

其中一個議題，當然就是領土問題，這也被證明是最具爭議且最難達成共識的議題之一。

Russia wants Ukrainian troops to withdraw from Luhansk and Donetsk regions in the east.

俄羅斯要求烏克蘭軍隊從東部的盧甘斯克和頓內茨克地區撤軍。

And Ukraine says that this is not acceptable for Kyiv.

而烏克蘭表示，基輔無法接受這一點。

And they want to is keep their positions, the current positions.

And the United States offered a compromise.

They're saying that there will be a demilitarized zone, and

Ukraine hinted that this could be accepted, but

烏克蘭暗示這或許可以接受，但

it has to be decided by the people of Ukraine by a referendum.

這必須由烏克蘭人民透過公投來決定。

And President Zelensky says that other issues will be discussed as well, and

澤倫斯基總統表示，其他議題也會被討論，

one of them is the security guarantees from the U.S.

其中一個就是美國提供的安全保障。

ukraine wants legally binding security guarantees from the U.S.

烏克蘭希望獲得美國具有法律約束力的安全保障，

to ensure that Russia will not continue its aggression in the future.

以確保俄羅斯未來不會繼續其侵略行為。

And also as part of this package of security guarantees, Ukraine wants not just security guarantees from the US but also from European allies.

同時，作為這套安全保障的一部分，烏克蘭不僅希望獲得美國的安全保障，也希望獲得歐洲盟友的安全保障。

And Ukraine wants to be a member of the European Union as part of this package as well.

烏克蘭也希望成為歐盟成員國，作為這套方案的一部分。

But crucially, Ukraine wants to clarify the timing and sequencing of events which once the agreement is signed, they want to make sure that there is a certain understanding what comes first and what comes next, whether the withdrawal will happen before any elections or once the ceasefire regime is announced.

但關鍵是，烏克蘭希望釐清事件的時間點和先後順序，一旦協議簽署，他們希望確保對哪些事情先發生、哪些事情後發生有明確的理解，例如撤軍是否會發生在任何選舉之前，或是在停火機制宣佈之後。

These activities by both sides will reflect each other's measures.

雙方的這些行動將會互相呼應。

And Kyiv says that the latest attacks just show that Russia is not keen in stopping the war.

基輔表示，最新的攻擊顯示俄羅斯並不熱衷於停止戰爭。

It just shows that Russia wants to continue their aggression.

這只是顯示俄羅斯想要繼續他們的侵略。

And just yesterday, they launched more than 500 drones and 40 missiles targeting residential buildings and Also energy facilities.

就在昨天，他們發射了超過 500 架無人機和 40 枚導彈，目標是住宅區和能源設施。

And Kyiv accuses Russia saying that they want to weaponize the weather because it's really cold now in Ukraine, the temperatures drop below zero.

基輔指責俄羅斯，說他們想要武器化天氣，因為現在烏克蘭天氣非常寒冷，氣溫降到零度以下。

And following the attacks yesterday, about 40% of the residents in Kyiv were left without heating.

而且在昨天的攻擊之後，基輔大約有 40% 的居民沒有暖氣。

And there are still regular power cuts in across the country.

So Russia is attacking this energy facility in order to increase the pressure on the leadership of Ukraine so that they will accept Russia's terms to reach this deal.

所以俄羅斯攻擊這個能源設施，是為了增加對烏克蘭領導層的壓力，讓他們接受俄羅斯的條件來達成協議。

阿卜杜勒·賈利勒，謝謝你的即時報導。

Let's then speak to Major General Vladimir Halfrell off.

那我們來訪問前烏克蘭國防部副部長弗拉基米爾·哈夫雷爾少將。

He was the former Ukrainian Deputy Minister of Defense.

Are you hopeful that something will come of this meeting today?

你對今天的會議有任何期望嗎？

There are no any expectations or positive expectations from the outcome of this meeting, because it's a meeting of the two leaders or the two presidents.

這次會議的結果，並沒有任何期望或正面的期待，因為這是兩位領導人或兩位總統的會議。

But at the same time, from Ukrainian side, it's about the people, it's about the parliament, it's about the civil society to decide what are the concessions or ideas in this resolution.

不過同時，從烏克蘭這邊來看，這關乎人民、國會以及公民社會，來決定在這項決議中，可以有哪些讓步或想法。

Everybody in Ukraine, we understand that the main obstacle to any plan to resolve this conflict is Putin's Maniako unwillingness to compromise on the Ukrainian issue.

烏克蘭的每個人都明白，任何解決衝突計畫的主要阻礙，就是普丁在烏克蘭問題上，那種瘋狂的不妥協。

Any compromise is perceived by him as a personal political defeat.

任何妥協在他看來，都是他個人的政治失敗。

Only harsh realities can somehow affect his mental state.

只有嚴峻的現實，才可能稍微影響他的心理狀態。

Such realities could be a difficult situation with the Russian economy or his permanent losses in this war.

這樣的現實，可能是俄羅斯經濟的困境，或是他在這場戰爭中持續的損失。

So we are very realistic about the position of Russia in this conflict.

所以我們對俄羅斯在這場衝突中的立場，是非常務實的。

When it comes to Donbas and the issues of territory, are there red lines that President Zelensky cannot cross?

當談到頓內茨克和領土問題時，澤倫斯基總統有沒有不能跨越的紅線？

Of course, everything which concerns territories is a red line for Ukrainian society here.

當然，所有關於領土的事情，對這裡的烏克蘭社會來說，都是紅線。

So, yes, there is a group of parliamentarians created to understand what could be kind of legal limitation to that kind of discussion at all.

所以，是的，有一個國會議員團體成立，來理解那樣的討論，到底有什麼樣的法律限制。

But nevertheless, it's only about the referendum, about the position of the people of the civil society.

但即便如此，這一切都關乎公投，關乎公民社會的立場。

But any kind of referendum requires a ceasefire.

但任何形式的公投都需要停火。

Ceasefire is a first step to any kind of discussions on the status or legal format of the territories.

停火是討論領土地位或法律形式的任何討論的第一步。

So Russia is not ready for ceasefire because for them any ceasefire is just change of the paradigm or the perception of this war.

所以俄羅斯還沒準備好停火，因為對他們來說，任何停火都只是改變這場戰爭的範式或觀感。

You say they're not ready for a ceasefire.

Yesterday, President Putin extended a ban on the export of petrol and diesel.

昨天，普丁總統延長了對汽油和機油出口的禁令。

And you've talked about the pressure on the Russian economy right now, which suggests that actually the drone attacks on some of the refineries is starting to have an effect.

你提到了目前俄羅斯經濟面臨的壓力，這表明對一些煉油廠的無人機襲擊確實開始產生影響。

Do you think actually there might be an inclination in some quarters in Moscow to think more seriously about a negotiation?

你認為莫斯科內部是否可能有人開始更認真地考慮談判？

Key things which can influence the mental state in Moscow.

能夠影響莫斯科心態的關鍵因素。

First of all, once again it's permanent losses on the ground.

首先，地面上的損失又一次是永久性的。

And understanding that there is no military solution in this war.

而且要明白這場戰爭沒有軍事解決方案。

And because this war is more than a technological war, it means that it's really no military solution to this.

因為這場戰爭不只是一場科技戰，這意味著它真的沒有軍事解決方案。

And the second, say Russian economy, which is in decline now due to different reasons including the Ukrainian long range strikes to reduce Russian oil and refinery or military infrastructure.

第二，俄羅斯的經濟，由於包括烏克蘭的長程打擊以減少俄羅斯的石油和煉油廠或軍事基礎設施在內的多種原因，現在正在衰退。

Everything together creates a lot of cracks, small cracks inside the Russian system.

這一切加在一起，在俄羅斯的體系內部造成了許多裂痕，細小的裂痕。

And sooner or later it will lead to a kind of black swan event, we don't know which one, which contribute to the total problem, total disaster in Russia as a system.

而且遲早會導致某種黑天鵝事件，我們不知道是哪一個，這將會加劇俄羅斯作為一個體系的整體問題和整體災難。

As a retired Major general, you now work as an adviser to the to the military defence sector.

身為一位退役少將，您現在是軍事國防部門的顧問。

If there wasn't to be an agreement, do you think it is possible for Ukraine to resist and to hold the line in Donbas?

如果沒有達成協議，您認為烏克蘭有可能在頓內茨克抵抗並守住陣線嗎？

Yes, thanks to a lot of innovations we have from our side.

是的，這要歸功於我們這邊的許多創新。

We have moved to the technological warfare.

And so we have a parity and balance with Russia in terms of the combat capabilities.

而且我們在戰鬥能力上與俄羅斯達到了平衡。

That's why we're confident that we can sustain this war.

這就是為什麼我們有信心能夠持續這場戰爭。

Replacing people, replacing infantry with robotic systems, with unmanned systems on the ground.

用機器人系統、無人地面系統來取代人力、取代步兵。

And we are supported by our partners with economy.

而且我們也獲得了夥伴們在經濟上的支持。

So we have a guaranteed credit payment for us for next two years from European Union.

所以歐盟保證了我們未來兩年的信用支付。

That's why we can sustain this technological war.

這就是為什麼我們能夠持續這場科技戰。

Major General, thank you for being with us again on the program.

少將，謝謝您再次來到我們的節目。