Name: 德國總理梅爾茲於耶路撒冷會晤以色列總理納坦雅胡 | DW 新聞 (German Chancellor Merz meets Israeli PM Netanyahu in Jerusalem | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-07T16:55:20.000Z
Duration: 9 min 32 s

Germany's Chancellor Friedrich Matz has been meeting with Israel's Prime Minister, Benjamin Netanyahu in Jerusalem.

德國總理 Friedrich Matz 正在耶路撒冷與以色列總理 Benjamin Netanyahu 會面。

基礎被動語態

Matz is on his first state visit since taking office at a time when relations are strained over the war in Gaza.

Matz 在這個關係因加薩戰爭而緊張的時刻，進行了他上任後的首次國是訪問。

At a joint press conference, Matz reaffirmed support for Israel, but called for a halt to annexations in the West Bank.

在聯合記者會上，Matz 重申了對以色列的支持，但呼籲停止兼併西岸。

Netanyahu said the status quo in the occupied territory would remain for now, but stressed what he called opportunities for peace.

Netanyahu 表示，佔領區的現狀暫時不會改變，但他強調了所謂的和平機會。

In his remarks, Netanyahu underlined the historic bond between Germany and Israel.

Netanyahu 在發言中強調了德國與以色列之間歷史淵源。

What has happened since the rise of the Jewish state is that we have been able to fend off our enemies.

自猶太國家崛起以來，我們能夠擊退敵人。

And in order to do that, we developed capacities that now enable us to reciprocate.

為了做到這一點，我們發展了現在能讓我們回報的能力。

Not only does Germany work in the defense of Israel, but Israel, The Jewish state, 80 years after the Holocaust, works for the defense of Germany.

德國不僅在防衛以色列，猶太國家在猶太人大屠殺後 80 年，也在為德國的防衛努力。

And that is a historical change that comes at the time of great international turbulence and change.

這是一個在國際動盪和變革時期出現的歷史性轉變。

And a German chancellor said Israel had a right to defend itself.

德國總理表示，以色列有權自衛。

Israel has the right and indeed the duty to protect its citizens and the existence of its country against those who are regularly combating the right to exist of Israel.

以色列有權利，甚至有職責，保護其公民和國家存續，對抗那些持續否定以色列生存權的人。

No state can accept that its citizens be murdered by Islamist terrorists, as happened in the kibbutzes near Gaza.

沒有任何國家能接受其公民被伊斯蘭恐怖分子謀殺，就像在加薩附近的基布茲發生的那樣。

And this is why we supported Israel even when many turned away from Israel in the course of the Gaza war.

這就是為什麼即使在許多國家在加薩戰爭期間轉向以色列時，我們仍支持以色列。

But in the course of this war, the operations of the Israeli army put us in a dilemma.

但在這場戰爭中，以色列軍隊的行動讓我們陷入兩難。

I'm now joined by IDW's Tania Kremer in Jerusalem who followed that press conference for us.

我現在 joins IDW 的 Tania Kremer 在耶路撒冷，她為我們追蹤了這場記者會。

Tania, what stood out for you in the two men's statements?

Tania，這兩位男士的發言中，有哪些讓你印象深刻？

Well, I think what stood out for me, it was quite a long press conference and we had joint statements by both leaders.

嗯，我想讓我印象深刻的是，這是一場相當長的記者會，兩位領導人都發表了聯合聲明。

And then they also answered quite a few questions from journalists, mostly traveling journalists and local journalists there.

然後他們也回答了不少記者提問，主要是隨行記者和當地記者。

然後，當然，我們有總理 Metz。

I mean, this is an inaugural, mostly symbolic visit to German to.

我是說，這是一次德國的首次、大多是象徵性的訪問。

You know, there have been irritations, there have been some criticism over the Gaza war and at a certain point also an arms embargo which has been lifted.

你知道，過去曾有一些摩擦，也有一些關於加薩戰爭的批評，甚至一度還有武器禁運，不過後來已經解除了。

Matz is here basically to say again to Israel, we support you, we stand by your side.

總理 Metz 來這裡，主要是再次向以色列表示，我們支持你，我們挺你。

But he also had, of course, some thoughts to share.

但他當然也有一些想法要分享。

So he was saying, this is such a precious friendship between Israel and Germany, also between the two leaders.

所以他說，以色列和德國之間，以及兩位領導人之間，有著如此珍貴的友誼。

They know each other for quite some time.

他們認識彼此已經有一段時間了。

A friendship that would never taken be taken for granted.

這份友誼絕不會被視為理所當然。

It was in Yad Vashem The Holocaust Memorial this morning, morning.

今天早上，在猶太大屠殺紀念館 Yad Vashem。

And he spoke about the shared history and of Germany's responsibility for Israel's security.

他也談到了共同的歷史，以及德國對以色列安全的責任。

But he also mentioned some of the, you know, criticism that has come up within Germany.

但他也有提到，你知道，德國國內出現的一些批評。

The dilemma, he called it, over the actions of some of the Israel's military in Gaza, calling on the Prime Minister that they have to also act according to international law.

他稱之為兩難，關於以色列軍隊在加薩的一些行動，呼籲總理他們也必須依照國際法行事。

Went on to say that, you know, Germany will be supporting the next steps when it comes to Gaza.

接著說，你知道，德國將支持接下來在加薩的行動。

But obviously we all know the process right now in Gaza is basically stalled.

但顯然我們都知道，加薩目前的進展基本上停滯了。

We are still in the first phase after the cease fire.

我們仍然處於停火後的第一階段。

There are also Israeli attacks every day.

Israel says that they're still waiting for the remains of one hostage to be brought back from Gaza.

以色列表示，他們仍在等待一名人質的遺體從加薩運回。

And it's unclear when the second phase will actually start.

而第二階段何時會真正開始，目前還不清楚。

So Germany has said, the Chancellor said there they will commit to rebuild Gaza.

是以德國表示，總理說他們將致力於重建加薩。

But still, you know, this seems to be very far off at the moment.

不過，你知道，目前這似乎還很遙遠。

And he also talked again about the vision of a two state solution.

他也再次談到兩國方案的願景。

That's what Germany has done for a very long time, but in a way that was really shot cut short by the Israeli Prime Minister who claimed that there had been a state, a de facto state, as he called it, run by Hamas in Gaza.

德國長期以來一直這樣做，但以色列總理聲稱加薩有一個由哈瑪斯實際運作的國家，這讓一切都中斷了。

And that didn't work out too well, referring to October7.

而這在 10 月 7 日之後並沒有太順利。

And obviously this current Israeli government is not, is basically rejecting the notion of a Palestinian state.

顯然，現任以色列政府基本上拒絕了巴勒斯坦國的概念。

So there was a lot to talk about and to see.

所以有很多事情可以談論和觀察。

And also obviously both men talked about the arms embargo.

顯然，兩位領袖也談到了武器禁運。

And we go straight to a political correspondent, Bernd Riegert here with me in the studio.

我們直接連線到演播室的政治記者 Bernd Riegert。

Matz 僅在耶路撒冷停留 24 小時。

And he also said in his press conference he's arrived a bit later than he would have wished.

他也在記者會上表示，他抵達的時間比預期晚了一些。

嗯，這都是因為當時的時空背景。

Both sides agreed that it's not the right time to visit Israel during this raging war in Gaza.

雙方都同意，在加薩戰火正熾的時期，並不是訪問以色列的適當時機。

Merz also criticized Israel right after he took office in May.

Merz 在五月上任後不久，也批評了以色列。

And now that the ceasefire is more or less in place, they say now it's the right time to come and to talk and to display this deep friendship, that friendship that we just saw.

而現在停火大致就位，他們說現在是時候前來，進行對話，並展現我們剛才看到的深厚友誼。

But you have to say that also the German foreign minister was already in Israel a few days after taking office.

但你必須說，德國外交部長在上任幾天後也已經訪問過以色列。

And also the president of Germany has been there.

So this is, well, it's delayed, but it's the same content you could expect.

所以，嗯，雖然延遲了，但內容跟預期的一樣。

Now, Germany has supported Israel's right to respond to the October 7 attacks, but also Germany and also the German government and Mads have been critical of the war in Gaza.

德國一直支持以色列回應10月7日的攻擊，但德國政府和梅爾茲也對加薩戰爭提出批評。

It's a fine balance that Mads has to find there.

這是一個梅爾茲必須找到的微妙平衡。

What's the official position right now on Gaza of the German government?

德國政府目前對加薩的官方立場是什麼？

Well, you could hear that Mr. Merz said in his press conference, Israel has to align with international law.

嗯，你可以聽到梅爾茲在記者會上說，以色列必須遵守國際法。

So this is a hint that also the situation in Gaza has to be altered.

這暗示了加薩的局勢也必須有所改變。

And this is something he also mentioned today to Benjamin Netanyahu, the Israeli prime minister, that that has to be changed to open some border points, actually to get help in.

這也是他今天向以色列總理班傑明·納坦雅胡提到的，必須改變現狀，開放一些邊境點，讓援助能夠進入。

And Merz is also on a different page when it comes to the Palestinian Authority and the Palestinians as such.

至於巴勒斯坦自治政府和巴勒斯坦人本身，梅爾茲也有不同的看法。

He says in the very end, at the end, there must be a Palestinian state, and the Palestinian Authority in the west bank should play a role also in governing Gaza in the future.

他在最後說，最終必須建立一個巴勒斯坦國，而西岸的巴勒斯坦自治政府也應該在未來參與加薩的治理。

And now we will see what happens in the phase two of this Trump peace plan.

而現在，我們就來看看川普和平計畫第二階段會發生什麼事。

But Germany is in a slight different position than Israel here.

不過德國在這裡的處境跟以色列有點不一樣。

Now, Germany, this looked like a very harmonious visit, even though there are differences, as you've pointed out, Tanya has pointed out.

現在，德國這次訪問看起來非常融洽，即使正如你和譚雅所指出的，存在一些分歧。

But the German government's position is generally supportive of Israel and Israel's security.

不過德國政府的立場普遍支持以色列及其安全。

How aligned is this position with public sentiment, public opinion in Germany?

這個立場和德國民眾的感受、民意有多一致？

Well, the principle has not changed for the government, but if you look at the polls, actually it has changed.

嗯，政府的原則沒有改變，但如果你看看民調，其實已經改變了。

The support for the special role for Germany in supporting the security of Israel has diminished.

德國在支持以色列安全方面所扮演的特殊角色的支持度已經下降。

Only 30% of 31% of people asked by Infra Testimab in September, I guess, say they now support this special relationship.

在九月，我猜是Infra Testimab做的調查，只有30%或31%的受訪者表示他們現在支持這種特殊關係。

And 62 say Germany has no special obligation and special responsibility anymore.

而62%的人認為德國不再有特殊的義務和責任了。

And this is in stark contrast to the official doctrine that says the core, the principle is there.

而這跟官方的說法形成了強烈對比，官方說核心、原則都還在。

Germany has to support Israel and for its security eternally.

德國必須永遠支持以色列的安全。

Now, that also is reflected, of course, in rising anti Semitism in Germany.

現在，這當然也反映在德國日益嚴重的反猶太主義上。

That was also addressed in that press conference.

Is this an important issue for Merz on a personal level?

這對梅爾茲來說，是個人層面的重要議題嗎？

Of course, there's harsh criticism by Israel and also by the Jews in Germany about antisemitism, which is on the rise actually, in the last two years after the attack of Hamas.

當然，以色列以及德國猶太人對反猶太主義提出了嚴厲批評，事實上，在哈瑪斯攻擊後這兩年來，反猶太主義確實正在興起。

And Merz pledge that he will do everything he can to fight against anti Semitism.

梅爾茲承諾他會盡一切努力來持續對抗反猶太主義。

Our political correspondent Bernd Rieger here in the studio with me.

我們請到政治記者 Bernd Rieger 在演播室。