Name: 真正實現自我價值 | Being Well 播客 (Authentically Developing Self-Worth | Being Well Podcast)
Uploaded: 2025-10-08T06:36:37.000Z
Duration: 53 min 56 s

If you're new to the podcast, thanks for joining us today.

如果你是第一次聽我們的 Podcast，今天很開心你加入我們。

And if you've listened before, welcome back.

如果你之前聽過，再次歡迎回來。

We recently released a couple of episodes focused on identifying and expressing our wants and needs to other people.

我們最近有幾集節目，主要在探討如何辨識並向他人表達我們的渴望和需求。

And during those conversations I mentioned that an important part of the process is developing a greater sense of self worth.

在這些對話中，我提到一個很重要的步驟，就是培養更強的自我價值感。

不只是單純地讓自己感覺良好。

When we increase our self worth, it allows us to get on our own side more easily, which can help us take our needs more seriously and change our lives for the better.

當我們提升自我價值感，就能更容易地支持自己，這能幫助我們更認真看待自己的需求，並讓生活變得更好。

And it's really easy to tell somebody to just develop some more self worth, but

其實，要別人「多發展一些自我價值」，這話說來容易，但

it's often a lot harder to do it in practice.

實際執行起來，往往困難許多。

So that's what we're going to be focusing on today, how we can develop a more durable sense of self worth.

所以今天我們要來探討的，就是如何培養更持久的自我價值感。

And to help us learn how to do that, I'm joined today as usual by Dr. Rick Hanson.

而為了幫助我們學習這點，今天和我一起的，一如往常，是 Rick 博士。

Rick is a clinical psychologist, a best selling author, and he's also my dad.

Rick 是一位臨床心理學家、暢銷作家，他也是我爸爸。

So, dad, why do you think that self worth is so important?

那麼，爸爸，您覺得自我價值為什麼這麼重要呢？

It's really hard to take action on our own behalf if we don't feel that we're worth the results right right from the start.

如果我們一開始就覺得自己不值得那些成果，那要為自己採取行動，真的非常困難。

Second, low self worth is associated, as a lot of research shows, with depressive mood.

第二，就像許多研究顯示的，低落的自我價值感會伴隨著抑鬱情緒。

So when you feel like you're running on empty because you don't feel much sense of worth, it's really hard to keep on going.

所以當你覺得自己像在空轉，因為你沒什麼自我價值感，要繼續下去真的很難。

And then third, when other people bump into us, if you don't feel like you have much worth, it's hard to bounce back from that and it's hard to challenge other people who've been mistreating you and even pursue assertiveness, reasonable assertiveness with them over time.

再來第三點，當別人跟我們發生摩擦時，如果你覺得自己沒什麼價值，就很難從中恢復，也很難挑戰那些對你不好的人，甚至難以長期地跟他們爭取應有的 assertiveness，合理的 assertiveness。

The last thing I'll just say is that apart from all those kind of functional explanations, as a person who entered adulthood when with really low self worth, very low self worth, and

最後我想說的是，除了這些功能性的解釋之外，以一個在自我價值感非常低落、極度低落的狀態下進入成年期的人來說，

it's been a lifelong journey for me actually to engage this deep down, you know, in the core of your being.

對我來說，這其實是一段深入內心、觸及生命核心的長期旅程。

What's it feel like when you don't feel very good about yourself, when you don't really feel like a particularly good person, you don't feel very lovable, very worthy of love.

當你對自己感覺不好的時候，感覺自己不是個特別好的人，覺得自己不夠可愛、不夠值得被愛，那是什麼感覺？

感覺糟透了，真的非常糟透了。

At the bottom of low self worth is a lie.

低落的自我價值感的根源是一個謊言。

Lies that other people told you and lies that maybe today you're continuing to tell yourself.

這些謊言可能是別人告訴你的，也可能是你自己今天仍在告訴自己的。

And it's really unfortunate that those lies can cast such a long shadow.

而這些謊言竟然能投下如此漫長的陰影，真的非常令人遺憾。

So, Forrest, I'm so glad that you foregrounded this topic and we're going to get into it.

所以 Forrest，我很高興你將這個主題 foregrounded，我們等一下就要來好好探討。

Yeah, I think that was a great summary for starter's dad for why we're talking about this in the first place and why it's an important thing for people to focus on in their own lives.

是的，我認為這是一個很棒的開場總結，說明瞭我們為什麼要談論這個，以及為什麼這對人們在自己生命中關注很重要。

And whenever you start talking about something like self worth, there are two families of questions that show up really quickly, often for people.

而且每當你開始談論像自我價值感這樣的話題時，通常很快就會出現兩類問題。

The first is, well, how is this different from other similar topics like self esteem or self confidence?

第一類是，嗯，這跟自尊或自信這些類似的主題有什麼不同？

And the second one that sometimes shows up for people is, if I develop more self worth, isn't that just going to turn me into like a malignant narcissist?

第二個有時候會出現的問題是，如果我發展出更多自我價值感，我會不會變成一個自戀的惡棍？

And I'm going to start kind of being an asshole to everyone and we're going to address both of those.

我會開始對每個人都變得像個混蛋，這兩點我們都會來探討。

But I want to start with the second one first, dad, and

不過，爸，我想先從第二點開始，

give you an opportunity to reply to some of those common criticisms that come up when people talk about developing more self worth.

讓您有機會回應一下，當大家談論如何發展更多自我價值感時，常會出現的這些批評。

It's been observed for a long time and there's just a lot of psychological theory about this, including in early psychoanalysis that people who present out in the world as arrogant and top dog, very, very, very often that's a compensation for feeling the opposite underneath.

這點觀察已經很久了，心理學理論也很多，包括早期的精神分析，都認為那些在世界上表現得傲慢、自以為是的人，非常非常非常常態，其實是為了彌補內心感受到的相反情緒。

It all often rooted in being treated in opposite ways when they were young.

這通常根源於他們小時候被以相反的方式對待。

A variation of that as a detail, we'll get into it.

這是一個變體，我們之後會深入探討。

Alice Miller really developed this notion.

Alice Miller 真的發展了這個概念。

I kind of experienced it some of it myself as a kid.

Where you grow up as a kid and you sort of get whipsawed between being put up on the pedestal one moment and then knocked down on the other side, it would be almost easier if you were always being knocked down.

就是你小時候長大，有時候會被擺上神壇，下一秒又被摔下來，這種來回擺盪，如果一直被摔下來反而會比較容易。

At least you'd kind of see what's happening or if you were always put up on the pedestal.

至少你大概會知道發生什麼事，或者你一直被捧上神壇。

But to have both of them happening can be really confusing to a kid.

但這兩者同時發生，對小孩來說可能會非常困惑。

And you can kind of fight desperately to stay up on that pedestal and you start to really fear any lapse or any revelation of anything inside you that would lead others, including maybe your parents or your older sibling or kids at school, whack, to knock you back down again.

你可能會拼命想留在神壇上，開始非常害怕任何失足或任何內在的揭露，這會讓別人，包括你的父母、哥哥姊姊或學校同學，啪的一聲把你打下來。

Yeah, it's kind of similar to the idealization devaluation pattern that we've talked about a little bit on the podcast.

對，這有點像我們在podcast裡稍微談過的理想化貶低模式。

people who are vulnerable to low self worth around, which may well be an act, a kind of shell of pretentiousness and being impressive.

容易有低自我價值感的人，這可能是一種偽裝，一種虛榮和令人印象深刻的外殼。

You know, one of the things that tends to drive that is a deep fear of being devalued sometimes accompanied with preemptive strikes of devaluing others first.

你知道，驅動這種情況的一個因素是深深害怕被貶低，有時伴隨著先發制人地貶低別人。

What we present to the world is often a compensation for what we feel inside.

我們呈現給世界的，常常是我們內心感受的補償。

So therefore, the paradox is when people feel truly worthy inside, when they feel truly lovable, when they truly feel comfortable in their skin, then they don't have to keep proving it, they don't have to keep impressing others, and

所以，弔詭之處就在於，當一個人內心真正覺得自己有價值、覺得自己值得被愛、覺得自在的時候，他們就不需要不斷證明自己，也不需要不斷去取悅別人，

they don't have to keep pushing others down to lift themselves up.

更不需要透過打壓別人來抬高自己。

So in the process of talking about that, you mentioned some features of people who might tend to struggle a little bit with self worth.

所以，在談論這個的過程中，你提到了那些可能在自我價值感上比較掙扎的人的一些特質。

And one of the things that you mentioned were difficulties that people have in childhood, sometimes with parents who maybe went through those cycles of idealization and then devaluation with them.

你提到的其中一點是，人們在童年時期可能會遇到的困難，有時候是父母會經歷那種理想化然後貶低他們的循環。

And the research generally shows that self worth is easiest to develop in childhood and adolescence, which is no surprise to anybody.

研究普遍顯示，自我價值感在童年和青少年時期最容易建立，這點大家應該都不意外。

And it sort of supports these two main strategies, which is to provide kids with unconditional love and respect and positive regard.

這也支持了兩個主要的策略，就是給孩子們無條件的愛、尊重和正面的評價。

And then the second one is to give kids or adolescents the opportunity to experience success of different kinds.

然後第二個是，讓孩子或青少年有機會體驗各種不同的成功。

And those two things together tend to support self worth.

而這兩件事結合起來，往往能夠支撐（或提升）自我價值感。

And this actually ties to recent conversation we had with Gabor Matei who talked about how unconditional love is one of the needs that children have to be valued just because they're a being rather than because of what they can do for other people.

而且這其實也呼應了我們最近和 Gabor Matei 的對話，他提到無條件的愛是孩子們的需求之一，他們需要被珍視，僅僅因為他們是個生命體，而不是因為他們能為別人做什麼。

And that gets us into a little bit of a conversation about the differences between self worth and related things like self esteem, that what you can do is often a bit more tied to self esteem, whereas who you are is often a bit more tied to self worth.

這也讓我們開始討論自我價值感和相關概念，像是自尊，你所能做到的事情，往往比較跟自尊有關，而你是誰，則比較跟自我價值感有關。

Self esteem is generally framed as how you feel about yourself and the opinions that you have about yourself.

自尊通常被定義為你對自己的感覺，以及你對自己的看法。

And where do our opinions about ourselves come from?

而我們對自己的看法又是從哪裡來的呢？

Well, most of the time they come from other people.

嗯，大部分時候，它們來自於別人。

And a lot of what influences that is our evaluation of ourself relative to others.

而很多影響這點的，是我們對自己的評價，相較於別人。

And this to me is a little bit different from self worth, which is more the internal sense of being good enough just as you are.

這對我來說，跟自我價值感有點不太一樣，自我價值感更像是內在的感覺，就是單純的你，就已經足夠好了。

而且就在這個詞裡，"worthy"（有價值的）。

這就是那種，你本身就很有價值的感覺。

And my sense personally with my self esteem is that it can really fluctuate on a moment to moment basis.

而我個人對自尊的感覺是，它真的會隨時隨地在變動。

It's really possible for me to feel good about myself in a moment while not having a really durable sense of self worth.

我真的有可能在某一刻感覺很好，但卻沒有持久的自我價值感。

And I think that like you dad, when I was younger, my self worth was more in question, but

我想就像你爸爸一樣，我年輕的時候，我的自我價值比較有疑問，但是

my self esteem might have been quite high.

And it reminds me of clients I've had who really could come in with a master's thesis on their positive qualities, who deep down still felt bad about themselves.

這讓我想起我有些客戶，他們可以寫出關於自己優點的碩士論文，但內心深處還是覺得自己很糟。

Deep down inside, there was a sense of shame and low self worth and shame tend to really go together around.

內心深處，有一種羞恥感和低落的自我價值感，而羞恥感往往會一起出現。

It was that shell that rationally they knew they were talented, intelligent, they'd accomplished a lot, but

那就像一個外殼，理智上他們知道自己有才華、聰明，也成就了很多，但是

deep down inside they still did not feel very good about themselves.

內心深處他們還是覺得自己不太好。

And they did not enter into the next interaction with much confidence that others would see their worth, both self esteem and self worth.

他們不會帶著多少自信進入下一段互動，覺得別人會看到他們的價值，包括自尊和自我價值。

But a lot self worth is socially situated.

但很多自我價值是社會情境決定的。

Lizards don't struggle with low self worth.

蜥蜴不會為低落的自我價值所苦。

And you can see behaviors in primate cousins like chimpanzees, let's say even rats, who in the experiment, let's say, what will be constructed is a kind of social insult.

你可以在像黑猩猩這樣的靈長類親戚身上看到行為，甚至老鼠，在實驗中，可以說，會被建構出一種社會侮辱。

They will be devalued socially and as a manipulation.

牠們在社會上會被貶低，作為一種操弄。

And often what they'll do is they'll go off and pick on another rat or another monkey that they're dominant toward in the larger hierarchy.

然後牠們通常會做的是，牠們會跑去欺負另一隻老鼠或另一隻猴子，在更大的階級結構中，牠們是處於支配地位的。

You mentioned earlier on in the episode dad that you were somebody where you would self describe as having some struggles with self worth personally.

你在節目一開始提到，爸爸，你曾形容自己個人在自我價值方面有些掙扎。

And then as time has gone on, you've achieved a more durable sense of that.

隨著時間過去，你獲得了一種更持久的感覺。

And so maybe to ask an overly simple question here, what did you do?

所以也許問一個過於簡單的問題，你是怎麼做到的？

It lets me make another point too, which is that I think people can err too far on either side.

這也讓我能提出另一點，那就是我認為人們很容易走向兩個極端。

Like, for example, the history of the self esteem construct is connected a lot to the psychologist Nathaniel Brandon, who is situated a lot in individualism and somewhat libertarian adjacent.

像是，舉例來說，自尊這個概念的歷史，與心理學家 Nathaniel Brandon 有很大的關聯，他非常強調個人主義，而且有點偏向自由意志主義。

He was an early student and protege of Ayn Rand.

他是 Ayn Rand 的早期學生和門徒。

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真正實現自我價值 | Being Well 播客 (Authentically Developing Self-Worth | Being Well Podcast)

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