Name: 德國稱已驅逐數十名違法阿富汗人 | DW News (Germany says it has deported dozens of law-breaking Afghans | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-07-19T17:43:16.000Z
Duration: 9 min 52 s

Well, Germany says it has deported dozens of Afghans convicted of crimes to their home country the first time under Chancellor Friedrich Niaz's new government.

德國表示，在弗里德里希-尼亞茲總理的新政府執政期間，德國首次將數十名被判有罪的阿富汗人驅逐回國。

The deportations came as Germany hosted a summit with EU partners focusing on migration.

驅逐事件發生時，德國正與歐盟夥伴舉行以移民問題為重點的峰會。

Germany's Interior Minister Alexander Dobrindt said that Germany wanted to take a leading role in the EU's migration policy.

德國內政部長亞歷山大-多布林德（Alexander Dobrindt）表示，德國希望在歐盟的移民政策中發揮主導作用。

The identities of the people in this image have been blurred, but the German Interior Ministry confirmed 81 Afghan nationals were on board the plane after failed asylum claims and criminal convictions.

圖片中人員的身份已被模糊，但德國內政部證實，飛機上有 81 名阿富汗國民，他們的庇護申請和刑事定罪均未通過。

It was the first such flight conducted since Germany's government took office earlier this year.

這是德國政府今年早些時候上臺以來進行的首次此類飛行。

Several hours later on Germany's highest mountain, the Zugspitze, the German Interior Minister hosted a summit with some of Germany's EU neighbors to discuss tougher migration policies, like dealing with rejected asylum seekers.

幾小時後，德國內政部長在德國最高峰楚格峰（Zugspitze）上與德國的一些歐盟鄰國舉行了一次峰會，討論更強硬的移民政策，比如如何處理被拒絕的尋求庇護者。

The Interior Minister addressed the deportations to Afghanistan, which were arranged even though Germany has no formal diplomatic relations with the Taliban.

儘管德國與塔利班沒有正式的外交關係，但還是安排了將他們驅逐到阿富汗的行動。

We have done this with strategic partners.

我們已經與戰略伙伴一起完成了這項工作。

Qatar has supported us in this as a strategic partner.

在這方面，卡達作為戰略伙伴給予了我們支持。

However, I would also like to make it clear that we must be able to carry out such deportations in the future without strategic partners, including to Afghanistan and to Syria.

不過，我也要明確指出，我們今後必須能夠在沒有戰略伙伴的情況下實施此類驅逐，包括驅逐到阿富汗和敘利亞。

Last year, under the previous government, Germany resumed deportations of Afghan nationals, despite critics highlighting human rights violations being recorded there.

去年，在上屆政府的上司下，德國恢復了驅逐阿富汗國民的行動，儘管責備人士強調了那裡侵犯人權的情況。

With the rise of the far-right AFD, current Chancellor Friedrich Merz and his government have taken a tough line on migration.

隨著極右翼民主聯盟（AFD）的崛起，現任總理弗里德里希-默茨（Friedrich Merz）及其政府在移民問題上採取了強硬立場。

We are all concerned that the excessive demands placed on our countries by illegal migration are also contributing massively to the polarization of society.

我們都擔心，非法移民對我們國家提出的過高要求也在很大程度上加劇了社會的兩極分化。

France's Interior Minister also called for a tougher stance.

法國內政部長也呼籲採取更強硬的立場。

We want to be firmer against illegal immigration, and we want to drastically reduce illegal immigration.

我們要更加堅決地打擊非法移民，我們要大幅減少非法移民。

Germany and its five European counterparts agreed on several goals to tighten asylum rules in the EU, but that would need approval from other member states.

德國與歐洲五國就收緊歐盟庇護規則的幾個目標達成了一致，但這需要得到其他成員國的準許。

Gerald Knauss is a migration analyst and director of the European Stability Initiative, that's a think tank here in Berlin.

傑拉爾德-克瑙斯（Gerald Knauss）是一名移民分析師，也是柏林智庫 "歐洲穩定倡議"（European Stability Initiative）的主任。

Germany today resumed its deportations to Afghanistan, and that was despite criticism from human rights organizations and opposition politicians.

儘管受到人權組織和反對派政治家的責備，德國今天還是恢復了向阿富汗的驅逐行動。

So why are these German deportations to Afghanistan so controversial?

那麼，為什麼這些德國人被驅逐到阿富汗會引起如此大的爭議呢？

It's an interesting question because those that are sent to Afghanistan are people who have been denied protection by the German asylum agency and by the courts, because you can always appeal to the courts.

這是一個有趣的問題，因為被送往阿富汗的人都是被德國庇護機構和法院拒絕保護的人，因為你總是可以向法院提出上訴。

And in addition, Germany focuses on those who have been convicted of crimes.

此外，德國還重點關注那些已被定罪的人。

Now, I don't know the crime history of each of these people, but we already had one deportation of people last year from Germany, and then two people who had been convicted of crimes were sent to Afghanistan.

現在，我不知道這些人中每個人的犯罪史，但去年我們已經從德國驅逐了一個人，然後又有兩個被判有罪的人被送往阿富汗。

And this is not a violation of any EU law, this is not a violation of the Refugee Convention.

這並沒有違反任何歐盟法律，也沒有違反《難民公約》。

The real difficulty has been the diplomacy required, because Germany has not until now been negotiating or recognizing the Taliban regime.

真正的困難在於所需的外交手段，因為德國直到現在還沒有談判或承認塔利班政權。

So the political issue has not been whether you can send these people to Afghanistan, you can, but whether you should talk on this with a regime that of course is viciously persecuting women in Afghanistan, and that has serious problems with its general human rights record.

是以，政治問題並不在於你能否把這些人送到阿富汗，你可以，而在於你是否應該與這樣一個政權談論這個問題，當然，這個政權正在惡毒地迫害阿富汗婦女，而且它的總體人權記錄存在嚴重問題。

If Germany is one of the EU countries that is not dealing directly with the Taliban government, how do you arrange deportations to a country whose government you don't recognize?

如果德國是不直接與塔利班政府打交道的歐盟國家之一，那麼你如何安排將其驅逐到一個你不承認其政府的國家？

Honestly, I don't know how it was done in this case.

老實說，我不知道在這種情況下是如何做到的。

Last time it was done through mediation, Qatar was helping.

上次是通過調解，卡達提供了幫助。

I mean, there is a strong case to be made that Germany, like other countries, might try to reach out to what is in the end now the effective government of Afghanistan.

我的意思是，德國和其他國家一樣，有充分的理由嘗試與阿富汗的有效政府進行接觸。

This doesn't require recognizing their political agenda.

這並不需要承認他們的政治議程。

I mean, we have diplomatic relations with Russia, which is attacking, pursuing a vicious war of aggression against Ukraine and is threatening the European Union.

我的意思是，我們與俄羅斯建立了外交關係，而俄羅斯正在對烏克蘭發動一場惡毒的侵略戰爭，並威脅著歐盟。

但我們仍然在那裡設有大使館。

So to have diplomatic relations, to talk to a country, is not really legitimizing their domestic agenda.

是以，建立外交關係，與一個國家進行對話，並不能真正使其國內議程合法化。

But it would be a step further than the previous German government was willing to take.

但這將比上屆德國政府願意採取的措施更進一步。

Let's talk about today's meeting between Germany's interior minister and counterparts from some of the country's neighbors.

讓我們來談談今天德國內政部長與一些鄰國內政部長的會晤。

They've agreed to tighten asylum rules and to facilitate deportations.

他們同意收緊庇護規則，併為驅逐出境提供便利。

Again, human rights organizations claim that some of the proposals from this meeting don't conform with EU or with international law.

人權組織再次聲稱，此次會議提出的一些建議不符合歐盟或國際法。

So are we looking at EU asylums laws perhaps changing in the future to accommodate these proposals?

那麼，我們是否會看到歐盟的精神病院法律將來可能會發生變化，以適應這些建議？

I mean, one of the things that is being discussed is a change that the European Commission in Brussels has put on the table in May.

我的意思是，正在討論的事情之一是布魯塞爾的歐盟委員會在五月份提出的一項變革。

It has long had strong support across the EU from many member states, but the previous German government was opposed to the idea of processing asylum claims in safe third countries.

長期以來，該方案在整個歐盟得到了許多成員國的大力支持，但德國上屆政府反對在安全的第三國處理庇護申請的想法。

So the idea would be that you can take people to another safe third country to discourage irregular arrivals.

是以，我們的想法是，可以把人們帶到另一個安全的第三國，以阻止非正常抵達。

This country needs to meet human rights conditions, otherwise courts will block the transfer, as we've seen in Britain in the case of Rwanda.

這個國家需要滿足人權條件，否則法院會阻止移交，就像我們在英國盧旺達的案例中看到的那樣。

But if a country meets the human rights conditions, until now you also needed to have a connection between the person you transfer there and the country.

但是，如果一個國家符合人權條件，在此之前，你還需要在被轉移者和該國之間建立聯繫。

And this so-called connectivity criteria, this connection criteria, is now going to be removed from EU law.

而這種所謂的連通性標準、連接性標準，現在將從歐盟法律中刪除。

So that makes it possible to have such arrangements.

是以，做出這樣的安排是有可能的。

And all the ministers of interior gathering now in Germany would like to see this happening.

現在聚集在德國的所有內政部長都希望看到這一點。

A quick word about something you wrote, saying that the German government now has the opportunity to make what you called a humanitarian migration shift.

我想簡單談談你寫過的一些話，你說德國政府現在有機會做出你所說的人道主義移民轉變。

Well, we are seeing what Donald Trump is doing in the US.

我們看到了唐納德-特朗普在美國的所作所為。

He's sharply reduced irregular migration through methods that are making a mockery of all the human rights conventions, the refugee convention, even the US legal system.

他通過嘲弄所有人權公約、難民公約甚至美國法律體系的方法，大幅減少了非正常移民。

I mean, taking people to a torture prison in El Salvador.

我是說，把人帶到薩爾瓦多的酷刑監獄。

But it has, of course, intimidated and frightened people.

當然，這也讓人們感到恐懼和害怕。

And so, irregular migration numbers have fallen.

是以，非正常移民人數有所下降。

Europe needs to show that the demand of the majority of Europeans in Germany and elsewhere, that you can reduce irregular migration, can be met without violating the human rights, the refugee, the children's rights or the torture convention, without violating human rights.

歐洲需要證明，可以在不違反人權、難民、兒童權利或酷刑公約的情況下，滿足德國和其他地方大多數歐洲人的要求，即減少非正常移民。

And this government, with safe third country agreements, with third countries, if these legal changes are passed, can actually do that.

如果這些法律修改獲得通過，本屆政府就可以通過與第三國簽訂安全的第三國協議來真正做到這一點。

And that would be a real shift in policy.

Thanks so much for talking us through that, Gerald.

傑拉爾德，非常感謝你為我們講述這些。

Gerald Knauss from the European Stability Initiative.

來自歐洲穩定倡議組織的傑拉爾德-克瑙斯。

DW correspondent Michael Watzke is covering that summit for us.

DW 通訊員邁克爾-瓦茨克（Michael Watzke）正在為我們報道這次峰會。

Michael, I understand the interior minister's meeting has concluded.

邁克爾，我知道內政部長會議已經結束了。

Well, it's a lot about symbolism here on Zugspitze mountain in 3,000 meters height.

在海拔 3000 米的楚格峰（Zugspitze）上，有很多象徵意義。

Those interior ministers, six of them, Germany and its neighboring countries, so part of it were Denmark, Czech Republic, Poland, Austria, France and Germany, they have concluded to pursue five aims that they called the Zugspitze targets.

這些內政部長中有六位是德國及其鄰國，其中一部分是丹麥、捷克共和國、波蘭、奧地利、法國和德國，他們得出結論，要實現五個目標，他們稱之為 "楚格峰目標"。

And those are sharpening European migration and asylum laws, fighting against human trafficking and smuggling, accelerating deportations, strengthening border security at the outer EU boundaries and enabling asylum procedures in third countries.

這些措施包括強化歐洲移民和庇護法，打擊人口販運和偷渡，加速驅逐出境，加強歐盟外部邊界的安全，以及在第三國實施庇護程序。

So that is what those six interior ministers have agreed upon.

這就是六位內政部長達成的一致意見。

If they can actually make those aims come true is another question.

至於他們能否真正實現這些目標，則是另一個問題。

You see, this is a day of fog here on Zugspitze.

你看，今天是楚格峰的大霧天。

And those interior ministers in the next weeks and months have to cut through heavy fog, especially judicial fog, to actually be able to get to those aims that they have agreed upon here on Zugspitze.

在接下來的幾個星期和幾個月裡，這些內政部長們必須穿越重重迷霧，尤其是司法迷霧，才能真正實現他們在祖格峰商定的目標。

Michael, I'm afraid we've got some sound problems there with the wind up on the Zugspitze.

邁克爾，恐怕祖格峰上的風聲有點問題。

Michael Watzke at the Zugspitze in Germany, thank you very much.

邁克爾-瓦茨克在德國的楚格峰，非常感謝。

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德國稱已驅逐數十名違法阿富汗人 | DW News (Germany says it has deported dozens of law-breaking Afghans | DW News)

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