Name: 你可以修復你的 DNA...從現在開始（諾貝爾獎得主獻聲） (You Can Fix Your DNA... Starting Now (feat. Nobel Prize Winner))
Uploaded: 2025-05-28T14:28:41.000Z
Duration: 53 min 46 s

情態副詞

There is a microscopic technology that now gives us the power to edit our own genes while we're alive, to cure certain diseases, possibly prevent others, maybe boost what our bodies can do, or even, one day, give our kids abilities that nobody has ever had before, effectively putting evolution into our hands.

現在有一種微觀技術，讓我們有能力在活著的時候編輯自己的基因，治癒某些疾病，可能預防其他疾病，也許提高我們身體的能力，甚至有一天，讓我們的孩子擁有前所未有的能力，實際上是把進化交到了我們的手中。

We are already using this technology in real medicines, in plants to grow new crops, in animals to create new species.

我們已經將這項技術用於真正的藥物，用於植物種植新作物，用於動物創造新物種。

It's called CRISPR-Cas9, and Jennifer Doudna won the Nobel Prize for discovering it.

它被稱為 CRISPR-Cas9，珍妮弗-杜德娜因發現它而獲得了諾貝爾獎。

So deciding how we should use this new superpower will be one of the greatest challenges we have ever faced, and one of the biggest opportunities to reduce human suffering.

是以，決定如何利用這一新的超級力量將是我們有史以來面臨的最大挑戰之一，也是減少人類痛苦的最大機遇之一。

So, in this video, we're going to use specific examples to help you see how gene editing is already affecting your life, and help you decide how should we use it, when is it wrong, and when is it wrong not to?

是以，在本視頻中，我們將用具體的例子來幫助你瞭解基因編輯已經在如何影響你的生活，並幫助你決定我們應該如何使用它，什麼時候使用是錯的，什麼時候不使用又是錯的？

What does it mean that we have this new power?

我們擁有這股新力量意味著什麼？

To eliminate diseases like hemophilia, sickle cell, Alzheimer's, hunting tits.

消滅血友病、鐮狀細胞病、老年痴呆症、獵殺山雀等疾病。

It would almost be unethical not to use it.

My goal for this conversation is to work together to explain how this new power to edit DNA might really impact this audience's lives.

我這次談話的目標是，共同解釋這種編輯 DNA 的新能力會如何真正影響聽眾的生活。

What's possible, and how can we help this gene editing future go right?

什麼是可能的，我們怎樣才能幫助基因編輯的未來順利進行？

The audience that you're talking to is great.

And also, because we cover so many different things, this might be the first time they're ever hearing about CRISPR.

此外，由於我們的報道涉及很多不同的領域，這可能是他們第一次聽說 CRISPR。

For myself, I have now done months worth of research for this conversation, but I'm no expert.

就我自己而言，我為這次談話做了幾個月的研究，但我不是專家。

Our bigger goal for this show, Huge If True, is to explore better futures, because we believe that when people are able to see them, they help build them.

我們製作《巨大的，如果是真的》這個節目的更大目標是探索更美好的未來，因為我們相信，當人們能夠看到更美好的未來時，他們就會幫助建設更美好的未來。

I think CRISPR is such an exciting technology, and it's the beginning of what will be possible in the future with genome editing, and how we can manipulate our environment and our bodies to maximize our health and maximize our experience in life, and to really understand our role in the world.

我認為 CRISPR 是一項令人興奮的技術，它是未來基因組編輯技術的開端，也是我們如何操縱我們的環境和身體，以最大限度地提高我們的健康水準，最大限度地增加我們的生活體驗，並真正瞭解我們在世界上的角色的開端。

So I'd love to share that with everybody in the audience, and I imagine incredible insights and science coming from all of them in the future.

是以，我很樂意與在座的各位分享這一點，我可以想象，在未來，他們都會提出令人難以置信的見解和科學。

如果是真的，那就太了不起了。

To explain why this is a huge moment in human history, we need to explain why CRISPR-Cas9 was such a big leap.

要解釋為什麼這是人類歷史上的一個重要時刻，我們需要解釋為什麼 CRISPR-Cas9 是如此大的飛躍。

My understanding is that we've known for over a century that there are specific molecules inside our cells that carry information in a four-part code, and then our cells use groups of that code as a blueprint for how to make the proteins that govern so much about us, from how we look to how we think to how we get or fight disease.

我的理解是，一個多世紀以來，我們已經知道，細胞內有一些特定的分子，它們攜帶著由四部分組成的代碼資訊，然後我們的細胞使用這些代碼組作為藍圖，如何製造蛋白質，這些蛋白質支配著我們的許多方面，從我們的外表到我們的思維，再到我們如何患病或抗病。

But for most of that century, we could only read this genetic code.

但在那個世紀的大部分時間裡，我們只能讀取這些遺傳密碼。

Could you help me understand how what you pioneered with Emmanuel Charpentier was different from the gene therapies and other gene editing systems that came before?

您能幫我理解一下，您與埃馬紐埃爾-夏彭蒂埃（Emmanuel Charpentier）共同開創的方法與之前的基因療法和其他基因編輯系統有什麼不同嗎？

What was the big insight, and why is it so important?

它有什麼重大啟示，為什麼如此重要？

CRISPR is a technology that came out of fundamental science.

CRISPR 是一項源於基礎科學的技術。

The very first tool that was used for gene manipulation really was coming from the natural world, and that was viruses.

最早用於基因操作的工具其實來自自然界，那就是病毒。

Some viruses naturally insert into the human DNA in our cells.

有些病毒會自然侵入我們細胞中的人類 DNA。

HIV is one example of a virus that does that.

艾滋病毒就是這種病毒的一個例子。

By studying how viruses manipulate DNA and how they get into DNA, there were a lot of insights about how we could potentially, as scientists, change DNA sequences, but we didn't have the tools to do it.

通過研究病毒如何操縱 DNA 以及它們如何進入 DNA，我們對作為科學家如何改變 DNA 序列有了很多見解，但我們並沒有這樣做的工具。

So what happened next was that there were a series of tools developed to find a particular set of letters in the DNA of, say, a human cell and alter them using tools that were generated for that specific purpose.

接下來發生的事情是，人們開發出了一系列工具，可以在人體細胞的 DNA 中找到一組特定的字母，並利用為這一特定目的而開發的工具來改變它們。

For the wonkier folks in the audience, these include zinc finger nucleases and talon proteins.

對於聽眾中的怪人來說，這包括鋅指核酸酶和爪狀蛋白。

These showed that DNA manipulation was possible and also could be very powerful.

這表明，操縱 DNA 是可能的，而且可能非常強大。

But what was challenging with those tools is that they were bespoke, meaning you had to make one of them for every single change that you might want to produce in a cell, for example.

但這些工具的挑戰性在於它們是定製的，這意味著你必須為你可能想要在一個單元中產生的每一個變化製作一個工具。

And that meant that they were expensive, they took a long time to produce and then to deploy.

這意味著它們價格昂貴，生產和部署需要很長時間。

And this is where CRISPR comes in, because what viruses and bacteria over eons interacting in nature had figured out is that they could use proteins that were directed by molecules of RNA, which are chemical cousins of DNA.

這就是CRISPR的由來，因為病毒和細菌在自然界的長期互動中發現，它們可以利用由RNA分子（DNA的化學表親）引導的蛋白質。

They interact with DNA, so they look at the DNA sequence on a letter-by-letter basis.

它們與 DNA 相互作用，是以會逐個字母地查看 DNA 序列。

And so scientists, once we understood how that recoding works with RNA, we could easily manipulate and change the sequences in DNA that CRISPR can recognize.

是以，科學家們一旦瞭解了 RNA 的重編碼工作原理，就可以輕鬆地操縱和改變 CRISPR 能夠識別的 DNA 序列。

And that's really the crux of the technology.

It becomes a programmable tool that can be directed to essentially any DNA sequence where it can make a change in a targeted way and in a way that is easily controlled in the lab.

它成為一種可編程的工具，基本上可以針對任何 DNA 序列，以一種有針對性的方式進行改變，而且這種方式在實驗室中很容易控制。

So the big change is that within the last few decades, we've gone from observing our genes to trying to change them, but slowly and with one-off tools, to now with CRISPR, we have quick, precise editing, like a text editor for the instruction manual of life.

是以，最大的變化是，在過去幾十年裡，我們從觀察基因到嘗試改變基因，但過程緩慢，而且使用的是一次性工具，而現在有了CRISPR，我們可以快速、精確地編輯基因，就像生命說明書的文本編輯器一樣。

What does it mean for us that we have this new power?

Well, it's kind of profound, I think, because if you start imagining what you can do when you have that kind of capability to manipulate DNA sequences, it's everything from changing the ability of crops to resist drought or to produce more tomatoes, to changing sequences in a human embryo that alter heritable traits that get passed on for future generations.

我認為，這有點深奧，因為如果你開始想象，當你擁有這種操縱 DNA 序列的能力時，你能做什麼，從改變農作物的抗旱能力或生產更多的西紅柿，到改變人類胚胎的序列，從而改變遺傳給後代的性狀，無所不能。

And so especially the latter application has truly profound implications.

是以，尤其是後一種應用具有真正深遠的意義。

It means that if you think about it, now as human beings, we have in our hands the technology to change chemically, fundamentally, who and what we are.

這意味著，如果你仔細想想，現在作為人類，我們手中掌握著從根本上改變我們是誰和我們是什麼的化學技術。

You talk in your book about, you say, the question is not whether we can change our genes anymore, it's how should we?

你在書中提到，問題不再是我們能否改變基因，而是我們應該如何改變？

My understanding is that within that debate, there's a big divide between whether we're editing cells that are not involved in reproduction, so the change would end with us, versus cells that are, in which case they would get passed down to our kids and our kids' kids and maybe even a whole population, depending on the gene.

我的理解是，在這場辯論中，有一個很大的分歧，那就是我們是否在編輯不參與繁殖的細胞，是以這種改變會隨著我們的結束而結束；還是在編輯參與繁殖的細胞，在這種情況下，它們會遺傳給我們的孩子和我們孩子的孩子，甚至可能是整個人群，這取決於基因。

It goes back to concepts like eugenics and thinking about even the Mary Shelley's Frankenstein, thinking about what we can do when we have the power to alter who we are fundamentally.

這可以追溯到優生學等概念，甚至想到瑪麗-雪萊的《弗蘭肯斯坦》，想到當我們有能力從根本上改變自己時，我們能做些什麼。

And to me, and I think in general, it's a very different set of concerns when you're thinking about changing DNA in an individual, which of course has safety and ethical considerations, but nothing like if we're changing DNA in a heritable way, in embryos.

對我來說，而且我認為一般來說，當你考慮改變一個人的 DNA 時，這是一套非常不同的關注點，這當然有安全和倫理方面的考慮，但與我們以可遺傳的方式改變胚胎中的 DNA 完全不同。

The embryos can't make that decision, for one thing.

首先，胚胎無法做出這樣的決定。

And once that change is made, it's permanent, and it gets passed on to all future generations.

而這種改變一旦發生，就會永久流傳下去，代代相傳。

And so you can imagine starting to change the whole genetic makeup of human populations if this were to go far enough.

是以，你可以想象，如果這種情況發展到一定程度，人類的整個基因構成就會開始發生變化。

If I'm imagining this as two columns, one is somatic and one is germline, then there's also the type of change itself, sort of with a spectrum between treating diseases that we would all agree are diseases, to prevention of future diseases, to what some people might call enhancements, or moving someone or their descendants into a new part of what is possible for humans.

如果我把這想象成兩列，一列是體細胞，一列是生殖細胞，那麼還有變化本身的類型，從治療我們都同意是疾病的疾病，到預防未來的疾病，再到一些人可能稱之為增強，或使某人或其後代進入人類可能的新領域。

And I've even, because this is a show called Huge If True, heard people talk about changes that might move people out of what is now normal for others.

甚至，因為這是一檔名為 "巨大的如果是真的 "的節目，我還聽到人們談論可能會讓人們擺脫現在對其他人來說正常狀態的變化。

And in fact, in order to keep us grounded, I have prepared some specific examples.

事實上，為了讓我們腳踏實地，我準備了一些具體的例子。

I'd love to use each of these examples and get your help to understand where do they fit into this debate?

我很想利用這些例子，讓你們幫助我理解它們在這場辯論中的位置。

How real or not real are they scientifically?

How could they actually impact the audience's lives or not?

它們究竟能否影響觀眾的生活？

And what gets you most excited in these different categories?

在這些不同的類別中，什麼最讓你興奮？

Okay, so my first example is curing sickle cell in one individual.

好吧，我舉的第一個例子是治癒一個人的鐮狀細胞病。

Could you tell me the story of Victoria Gray and what's happening with CRISPR right now in sickle cell disease?

您能給我講講維多利亞-格雷的故事，以及CRISPR技術目前在鐮狀細胞病領域的應用情況嗎？

Well, this is a big success of the CRISPR field.

In the, I think, late fall, it was November and December of 2023, the Food and Drug Administration in the U.S. and their counterpart in the U.K. approved a CRISPR-based therapy for sickle cell disease patients.

我認為，在2023年11月和12月的深秋，美國食品藥品管理局和英國食品藥品管理局準許了一種基於CRISPR技術的鐮狀細胞病患者療法。

So these are people that have a single genetic mutation that gives them a very severe blood disease that results in frequent, you know, requirements for frequent blood transfusions.

是以，這些人只有一個基因突變，導致他們患上非常嚴重的血液病，需要經常輸血。

And if they don't have those, they have organ failure over time.

如果沒有這些，隨著時間的推移，他們的器官就會衰竭。

They have very severe crises that happen frequently that are very painful for them.

他們經常會遇到非常嚴重的危機，這讓他們非常痛苦。

So you can imagine extremely disruptive to their lives.

是以，你可以想象他們的生活會受到極大的干擾。

And with this CRISPR-based treatment, it's a one and done therapy that doesn't exactly cure the disease at the genetic level, but what it does is suppress the effect of the disease-causing mutation.

這種基於CRISPR的療法是一種一勞永逸的療法，並不能從基因層面完全治癒疾病，但它能抑制致病突變的影響。

And it does that by turning on the production of a protein normally only made when we're developing in the womb, which is a protein called fetal hemoglobin, that when turned back on using CRISPR can suppress the effect of the disease-causing mutation in adult hemoglobin.

它通過開啟一種通常只有在子宮內發育時才會產生的蛋白質，也就是一種叫做胎兒血紅蛋白的蛋白質的生產來實現這一目的。

And as a result, people like Victoria Gray, and she was the first U.S. patient to receive this therapeutic, have not had another sickle cell crisis since receiving this one and done therapy.

是以，像維多利亞-格雷（Victoria Gray）這樣的患者，她是第一位接受這種療法的美國患者，自從接受了這種療法後，就再也沒有出現過鐮狀細胞危機。

And having talked to her and a couple of other folks that participated in that very first clinical trial, I've heard their stories about being just, you know, their lives being completely transformed by this and their ability to then function in a way that they never imagined to be possible given their previous disease experience.

在與她和其他幾位參加過首次臨床試驗的人交談後，我聽到了他們的故事，你知道，他們的生活是以而徹底改變，他們能夠以一種他們從未想象過的方式發揮作用，而這是他們之前的疾病經歷所無法想象的。

I would put this in the category of, I'd call it a treatment, and I'd call it a treatment for an individual right now.

我把它歸類為一種治療方法，現在我把它稱為對個人的治療方法。

We're not using it in the human germline, but it's clearly a very exciting advance for the field with some caveats.

我們並沒有在人類種系中使用它，但這顯然是該領域一個非常令人興奮的進步，但也有一些注意事項。

Right now, this therapy is very expensive, meaning that most people who could benefit from it globally can't get access to it.

目前，這種療法非常昂貴，這意味著全球大多數能從中受益的人都無法獲得這種療法。

字幕列表影片播放

你可以修復你的 DNA...從現在開始（諾貝爾獎得主獻聲） (You Can Fix Your DNA... Starting Now (feat. Nobel Prize Winner))

specific

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extraordinary

incredibly