Name: 裴洛西揭露她的樂觀之道 | 今日解密 (Nancy Pelosi explains her optimism | Today, Explained)
Uploaded: 2026-03-21T16:37:31.000Z
Duration: 25 min 30 s

So question who's the most consequential American elected official over the last, say, 25 years?

所以問題來了，過去 25 年來，最具影響力的美國民選官員是誰？

唐納·川普是顯而易見的答案。

But you could say Barack Obama, Mitch McConnell, but

但你也可以說是巴拉克·歐巴馬、米奇·麥康奈爾，不過

I'd argue Nancy Pelosi, the former House speaker and congressional leader of Democrats who shepherded countless legislation over the Obama years and some during the Trump years.

我會說南希·裴洛西，前眾議院議長和民主黨國會領袖，她在歐巴馬任期內以及川普任期內推動了無數法案。

her fingerprints are all over the most consequential legislation that have passed through Congress over the last couple decades.

過去幾十年來通過的許多重要法案都留下了她的身影。

Now, Pelosi is set to retire after this midterm elections, but

現在，裴洛西將在這次期中選舉後退休，但

before that, I had the chance to talk with her at this year's south by Southwest Conference, and

在那之前，我有機會在今年的南方 by 西南博覽會上和她聊聊，而且

I wanted to put in front of her all the questions that I had.

我想把所有我有的問題都擺在她面前。

What made her stick around Congress after she almost was going to retire in 2016?

是什麼讓她在 2016 年幾乎要退休後，又繼續留在國會？

And of course, considering the political violence that she's been around from January 6 to what happened in her own family, how does she retain faith in an electorate that seems to consistently be letting her down?

當然，考慮到從一月六日到她家人發生的政治暴力，她要如何在似乎不斷讓她失望的選民中保持信心？

I asked her that and more in front of a packed house in Texas.

我在德州一個擠滿人的場地問了她這個問題，還有更多。

We are so grateful that Speaker Pelosi has come to south by Southwest to talk with us at Today Explained.

我們非常感謝裴洛西議長來到南方 by 西南博覽會，在 Today Explained 和我們談話。

Now, I'm so excited for this conversation, not just because of the long legacy that you have in Congress in San Francisco, but

現在，我對這次談話感到非常興奮，不只是因為您在舊金山國會的長久傳承，還有

also to really get a sense of how you view that legacy yourself.

也是為了真正瞭解您自己如何看待這份傳承。

您在 47 歲贏得了您的第一個選區。

You kind of mentioned this towards the end.

您在結尾時有稍微提到這件事。

I know there's a lot of people here at south by that you know, are in their 20s and 30s, are looking to make, are eager to make an impact.

我知道南方 by 西南博覽會這裡有很多人，您知道，他們二十幾歲、三十幾歲，正想有所作為，渴望產生影響。

I wanted to know what you, what you learned about timing and purpose from your own career, considering kind of you took a journey to get to where you are.

我想知道您從自己的職涯中學到了關於時機和目標的什麼，考量到您是走了這麼一段路才走到今天這個位置。

Well, first of all, I had no intention of running for office.

嗯，首先，我根本沒想過要參選。

As I said, I had five children in six years and seven days.

就像我說的，我在六年又七天內生了五個小孩。

one of them was going to go into senior year in high school, I was approached to run for Congress.

其中一個孩子就要上高年級了，那時候有人找我參選國會。

And I said, well, I've never had that ambition.

我說，嗯，我從來沒有那樣的野心。

I loved advancing other people, but I had no ambition myself to be the one on the line.

我喜歡幫助別人前進，但我自己沒有想成為站在第一線的野心。

she was 16, young for going into high senior year, said Alexandra, mommy's been, Mommy's been asked to run for Congress.

她那年 16 歲，對上高年級來說還很年輕，我跟亞歷珊卓說，媽媽被邀請去參選國會了。

If you think I'll tell you what it is, it is, you know, about three nights a week, I'LL be gone when Congress is in session.

如果你覺得我會告訴你，那就是，你知道的，一週大概三個晚上，國會開會期間我會不在家。

而且國會也不是一直都在開會。

Now remember I said, mommy, mother, get a life.

現在記得我說，媽咪，媽媽，給我點空間。

And I had never heard that expression before.

What teenage girl does not want her mother out of the house three nights a week?

哪個青少年女孩不希望她媽媽一週有三個晚上不在家？

And then, then later people asked me to run for leadership and that was another step forward.

然後，後來大家要我出來競選領導職位，這又往前邁進了一步。

That's why I keep saying to young women especially who ask me that, just, just know your why, why you would do it.

這就是為什麼我一直告訴年輕女性，尤其是那些問我的，你們要知道自己的初衷，為什麼要做這件事。

And now my why was 1 in 5 children in America goes to sleep hungry at night or lives in poverty.

而我現在的初衷是，美國有五分之一的孩子晚上餓著肚子睡覺，或生活在貧困中。

Because this is a rough and tumble business and you can take the punches if you know why it's happening.

因為這是一個艱難的行業，如果你知道為什麼會這樣，你就能承受打擊。

And you can throw the punches for the children if that's your why.

如果這就是你的初衷，你就能為孩子們奮鬥。

You know, the slogan for your first campaign was Nancy Pelosi, a voice that will be heard.

你知道，你第一次競選的口號是「裴洛西，一個會被聽見的聲音」。

像是，那時候對你來說是什麼意思？

And when you look back 30, 40ish years later, what does it mean to you now?

那現在回頭看，大概三十、四十年後，這對你來說又代表什麼呢？

Well, it was sort of interesting that they would have that voice that, well, we heard.

嗯，他們有那樣的聲音，而且我們確實聽到了，這點還蠻有趣的。

The campaign decided that would be it because they know that I knew a lot of people in politics, having been the party chair and that.

競選團隊決定就這樣做，因為他們知道我因為當過黨主席，所以認識很多政界人士。

And so it worked though, because who would have thought that a voice that would be heard would become the speaker of the House?

結果這也奏效了，誰能想到一個「會被聽見的聲音」竟然會成為眾議院議長呢？

So they all take great pride in their people prediction.

所以他們都很為自己預測的準確性感到驕傲。

What was the transition like going from behind the scenes, you know, as you were organizing chair of the Democratic Party, to making their transition to a candidate yourself.

從幕後，你知道，在你擔任民主黨黨主席的時候，到自己成為候選人，這個轉變是什麼樣的？

And specifically, like, you know, how did you deal with the public perception of it all?

還有，特別是，你知道，你怎麼處理大家對這一切的看法？

See, I don't really like to talk about the past.

So for me, I sort of got used to it right away.

所以對我來說，我很快就習慣了。

They told me when you go to Congress, you know, you love the issues.

他們告訴我，當你進入國會時，你知道，你會熱愛這些議題。

That's what motivates you to be in the political arena and volunteer and recruit candidates and advance them.

這就是激勵你在政壇奮鬥、招募候選人並推動他們的動力。

You know, you love the issues and that was issue driven.

你知道，你熱愛這些議題，這就是由議題驅動的。

And that's really, you know, it's not about yourself then, it's about what you're there, your purpose while you're there.

所以說，這真的，你知道，就不是關於你自己，而是關於你為什麼在那裡，你在那裡的目標。

So, you know, certainly the legacy of issues of legislation has been one that is undeniable, from the American Recovery act to Dodd Frank to the Affordable Care act, you have shepherded through legislation that's changed all of our lives.

所以，你知道，法案議題的傳承確實是不可否認的，從美國復甦法案到陶德－弗蘭克法案再到平價醫療法案，你推動的法案改變了我們所有人的生活。

Now you've been called the most effective speaker in history.

現在你被譽為史上最有效的眾議院議長。

I wanted to know, like, what is the skill or trait that you think made you so effective?

我想知道，像是，你認為是什麼樣的技能或特質讓你如此有效率？

Because we've seen obviously, you know, in Trump years and others, that job ain't so easy.

因為我們很明顯地看到，你知道，在川普時期和其他時候，那個工作並不容易。

The thing about it is that when you just, when you're in a legislator, you have one, shall we say, dynamic at work.

這件事是這樣的，當你，當你身為立法者時，你只有一種，我們該怎麼說，一種動力在運作。

You have hearings, you have public comment.

When you become the speaker or the governor or the mayor or whatever.

當你成為議長、州長、市長或任何職位時。

But the executive position, you then have to act.

但行政職位，你之後就必須採取行動。

And the reason you have to act is because if you don't act immediately, people think, oh, she's going to think about it.

你必須行動的原因是，如果你不馬上行動，大家就會想，哦，她會考慮一下。

And while she does, we'll take this option away or that option away.

在她考慮的時候，我們會拿走這個選項或那個選項。

So nine times out of 10, you will be correct or it will work because you, you know, it will work.

所以十次有九次，你會是對的，或者會成功，因為你知道，它會成功。

And then, then you get the reputation that it will work, and that's that.

然後，然後你就會有「它會成功」的名聲，就是這樣。

But it is, it is really important to just make sure people trust your judgment that you know what you're talking about, you know how to get something done.

但這真的很重要，就是要確保大家相信你的判斷，知道你在說什麼，知道如何把事情做好。

The other thing is nothing really happens.

另一件事是，沒有什麼真的會發生。

And this is probably goes back to my childhood and being party chair, nothing really good happens unless you have the outside mobilization, inside maneuver, outside mobilization.

這可能要回到我的童年，擔任黨主席的時候，除非有內部的運作和外部的動員，否則什麼真正的好事都不會發生。

And that is like President Lincoln said, I'm quoting a Republican president now, President Lincoln said, public sentiment is everything.

所以就像林肯總統說的，我現在引用一位共和黨總統的話，林肯總統說，民意至上。

With it, you can accomplish almost anything.

有了民意，你幾乎可以達成任何事。

沒有民意，幾乎什麼事都做不成。

But for public sentiment to prevail, people have to know.

但要讓民意能夠勝出，人們必須知道。

So you must, you have to get it out there and engage public sentiment.

所以你一定要，你必須把它傳出去，並且爭取民意。

I want to get back to the question of public sentiment.

But before that, you sold CNN's Anderson Cooper, something that I really found interesting.

但在那之前，你賣了 CNN 的安德森·庫柏，這件事我真的覺得很有趣。

You said that you thought America, you assumed that America would be much more ready for a woman president than they would be for a woman speaker of the House.

你說你認為美國，你假設美國會比準備好迎接女性眾議院議長，更準備好迎接女性總統。

Yeah, because you assume that the Boys Club of Washington was more tight and rigid than maybe the American people's sentiments were.

是的，因為你假設華盛頓的「男孩俱樂部」比美國人民的民意更緊密、更僵化。

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裴洛西揭露她的樂觀之道 | 今日解密 (Nancy Pelosi explains her optimism | Today, Explained)

process

guarantee

impact

legacy