Name: 前國防部長艾斯培：政府決定空襲伊朗「做對了」！ (Former Defense Secretary Esper says administration 'made the right call' on Iran strikes)
Uploaded: 2026-02-28T23:10:19.000Z
Duration: 10 min 12 s

I now want to bring in former defense secretary in the first Trump administration, Mark Esper.

我現在想請到川普政府第一任期的前國防部長馬克·艾斯培。

Secretary Esper, thank you so much for joining us.

艾斯培部長，非常感謝您加入我們。

程度副詞

Well, it's wonderful to have you here and your perspective.

哇，很高興您在這裡，也很高興能聽到您的觀點。

Let me start off by just getting your reaction.

讓我先請教您對這件事的看法。

Obviously, we've seen President Trump amass this huge military presence in the region, and

顯然，我們看到川普總統在這個區域集結了龐大的軍事力量，

here we are today, strikes underway that could last, based on my conversations, for days, if not weeks.

而今天，根據我跟別人的談話，這些正在進行的攻擊可能會持續數天，甚至數週。

Well, you know, I was not surprised that it happened after yesterday when we heard that the US Ambassador to Israel gave his employees their authorization to, to leave immediately the state of Israel.

嗯，你知道，昨天聽到美國駐以色列大使授權他的員工立即離開以色列時，我一點也不驚訝。

這就是一個，這就是一個提示。

And we also know that Kushner and Wyckoff came out of the negotiations on Thursday with the Iranians very close, lipped about it, which told me that there was not progress being made.

我們也知道庫許納和懷剋夫週四與伊朗人結束談判時，對此守口如瓶，這告訴我談判並沒有進展。

And I think the President and his team made the right call, and

我認為總統和他的團隊做出了正確的決定，

that is that the Iranians weren't serious, at least not serious enough to give up their enrichment program.

那就是伊朗人並不認真，至少沒有認真到願意放棄他們的濃縮計畫。

So in my mind, those few things, coupled with the fact that we had reached the apex of our deployment of air and naval forces in the Middle east, you can't keep them there forever, right?

所以在我看來，這幾件事，加上我們在中東的空軍和海軍部隊部署已經達到頂峰，你不可能永遠讓他們待在那裡，對吧？

At some point in time, their readiness wears down.

總有一天，他們的戰備狀態會下降。

You've got to either use them or pull them back.

你要嘛使用他們，要嘛把他們撤回來。

And I think the President made the decision, given a number of other factors, some of which he laid out this morning in his remarks, that it was time to act.

我認為總統做出了決定，考慮到其他一些因素，其中一些因素他在今早的談話中已經闡述了，是時候採取行動了。

Well, given your role as Secretary of Defense, you understand what it is like to think about, draw up potential battle plans, war plans.

好的，身為國防部長，你很清楚思考、擬定潛在作戰計畫、戰爭計畫是什麼感覺。

總統先生，在這個時刻，你認為最佳情況是什麼？

Secretary, in this moment, and what is the worst case scenario, as you see it?

部長，依你看來，最壞情況又是什麼？

Of course, it begins with what's the purpose of the operations?

當然，這得從行動的目的是什麼開始說起。

And I think, as the President laid out, he said we wanted to destroy their ballistic missile capabilities, production capabilities.

我認為，正如總統所闡述的，他說我們想要摧毀他們的彈道飛彈能力、生產能力。

So I assume that some of the sites that were taken out, out in Iran, internally to Iran, will contain some of the sites.

所以我猜測，在伊朗境內被摧毀的一些地點，會包含一些相關的設施。

And they look familiar to me based on my recollections.

根據我的回憶，這些地點看起來很熟悉。

But he also talked about going after their naval assets, and

但他也談到要對付他們的海軍資產，

I assume that was to make sure that they couldn't harass commercial shipping or to mine the Strait of Hormuz.

我猜測那是為了確保他們無法騷擾商業運輸，或是封鎖荷姆茲海峽。

Interestingly, we haven't seen much of that.

很有趣的是，我們沒有看到太多這樣的跡象。

At least the reporting hasn't indicated any strikes along the coastal areas or against the Navy.

至少報導沒有指出有針對沿海地區或海軍的攻擊。

We know that Israel went after leadership targets.

我們知道以色列攻擊了領導層目標。

That, of course, suggests that they want to go after decapitation.

這當然暗示了他們想進行斬首行動。

And then the President mentioned regime change.

And I think here at what he's hoping for is that there'd be enough pressure on the Iranian regime that the people in Iran would rise up once again, just like they did last month.

我認為他希望的是，對伊朗政權施加足夠的壓力，讓伊朗人民再次起義，就像上個月一樣。

And maybe the conditions would be set or maybe further on us or Israeli attacks could set the conditions further for the Iranian people to overtake the country, the regime, and

也許條件會就緒，或者進一步的美國或以色列攻擊可以為伊朗人民推翻國家、推翻政權創造更多條件，

But again, the end game looks a little fuzzy right now.

但話說回來，最終目標現在看起來有點模糊。

We've just got to see how this plays out.

Secretary, the President, the administration have indicated they believe it is, in fact, possible to bring about regime change without US Boots on the ground.

部長，總統和政府都表示，他們相信事實上可以在沒有美軍地面部隊的情況下實現政權更迭。

Based on your understanding of these military operations, is that realistic?

根據您對這些軍事行動的瞭解，這是否現實？

I understand the president's calling on the Iranian people to rise up, but

我明白總統呼籲伊朗人民起義，但是

it is incredibly complicated to bring about regime change, is it not?

實現政權更迭非常複雜，不是嗎？

It will depend on the Iranian people at this point in time.

這將取決於伊朗人民在此時此刻的行動。

And I hope that we are providing covert means to support them.

我希望我們能提供祕密手段來支持他們。

I mean, of course, we know we, we provided last month Starlink terminals to the Iranian people to communicate with one another.

我是說，當然，我們知道我們上個月向伊朗人民提供了 Starlink 終端機，讓他們可以互相聯繫。

Maybe we're providing them other means and assets, but

或許我們也提供其他方法和資源給他們，

it's going to be up to them at this point in time.

但這就得看他們現在的行動了。

But look, I'd say beyond that, after Operation Midnight Hammer last June, we had the Iranians on their knees.

不過你看，我會說，在去年六月的「午夜鐵鎚行動」之後，伊朗就已經被我們壓制住了。

Their air defenses were taken down, their ballistic missile forces were spent.

他們的防空系統被摧毀，彈道飛彈部隊也耗盡了。

We had set back a considerable amount of time, their nuclear enrichment process, their industry.

我們讓他們的核子濃縮計畫和工業倒退了相當長一段時間。

In my view, that was the time to demand that Iran allow IAEA inspectors, that's the International Atomic Energy Agency inspectors, back into the country to get back into those installations to find where that 900 pounds of enriched uranium was, to put cameras back in place.

我認為，當時就應該要求伊朗讓國際原子能總署（IAEA）的檢查員重返該國，回到那些設施，找出那 900 磅濃縮鈾的去向，並重新裝設攝影機。

And I, look, I think the President is right and every president before him as long as I can remember, has said Iran cannot be allowed to have a nuclear weapon.

我認為總統說得對，而且在我記憶所及的歷任總統都說過，不能允許伊朗擁有核武。

So whether or not there is regime change at this point in time, I think it was important to continue to set back their missile defenses, their air defenses, their missile capabilities, and

所以，不管現在是否會發生政權更迭，我認為持續削弱他們的飛彈防禦、防空系統和飛彈能力是很重要的，而且

continue to set back also their nuclear ambitions.

And, and we may have to keep doing that if we don't see regime change.

而且，如果我們沒有看到政權更迭，我們可能必須繼續這樣做。

Can you put this moment into broader context and why the President may have decided to strike now?

您可以將這個時刻放在更廣泛的背景下，並說明總統為何可能決定現在就採取行動？

How weak is the Iranian regime in the wake of the strikes that you just cited last summ?

在您剛才提到的去年夏天的襲擊之後，伊朗政權有多弱？

Yeah, they're the weakest they've been in 47 years, right, since the 79 takeover.

是的，他們是 47 年來最弱的，自 79 年接管以來就是如此。

And of course the American hostages the weakest in that amount of time.

當然，美國人質也是那個時期最弱的。

And it's not just their air defenses have been decimated and their ballistic missiles spent, but

不僅是他們的防空系統被摧毀，彈道飛彈也所剩無幾，而且

Keep in mind that they've lost Hamas in southern.

請記住，他們已經失去了南部的哈瑪斯。

抱歉，在以色列失去了哈瑪斯。

They've been decimated by Israeli operations in Gaza.

他們在加薩的以色列行動中遭到重創。

他們在黎巴嫩南部失去了真主黨。

They've been taken down by pretty seriously by Israel.

現在，當然還有阿薩德領導的政權。

We know that the Iraqi Shia militia groups have been set back as well.

我們知道伊拉克的什葉派民兵組織也遭受了挫敗。

And really the only force standing are the Houthis in Yemen.

而真正僅存的力量是葉門的胡塞武裝。

而且他們並非一支強大的力量。

But nonetheless, the point is the proxies that help prop up and defend these Islamic regime have been really taken down considerably.

但儘管如此，重點是那些幫助支撐和保衛這些伊斯蘭政權的代理人，都已經被嚴重削弱了。

So it talks about weakness across the board, not just domestically, but

所以這顯示了全面性的弱點，不只是國內，

within, with regard to the region and the proxy.

而是區域內和代理人方面的弱點。

So this is a unique moment in time in the 47 year history of this regime.

所以這是這個政權 47 年歷史中一個獨特的時刻。

Let me ask you, because we did hear from President Trump who delivered a video message earlier today.

我想問你，因為我們聽到了川普總統今天稍早發表的影片訊息。

We've been playing that throughout the morning.

Do you think though that he needs to come before the American people and really lay out his case in earnest?

你認為他需要站出來向美國人民清楚、認真地闡述他的論點嗎？

Yeah, I think every president benefits by going before the American people and explaining what we're doing, why we're doing it, how long it will take, what the pros are, the cons, the risks.

是啊，我認為每位總統透過向美國人民說明我們正在做什麼、為什麼做、需要多久、好處是什麼、壞處是什麼、風險是什麼，都能有所助益。

I mean, the president was right to mention that this is not a risk free operation.

我的意思是，總統提到這不是一個沒有風險的行動，這點是正確的。

So I think the more he could speak to that to the American people directly, and

所以我想他越能直接向美國人民講述這點，

I think we're being told he will today, but

我認為他們說他今天會這麼做，但是

also to Congress, both the House and Senate, and, and

也會向國會，包括眾議院和參議院，還有

then of course have his members of his cabinet go out and do the same.

然後當然會讓他的內閣成員也做同樣的事。

You know, when we took down Soleimani In January 2020, one of my jobs was to go out and call the respective members of my of the Armed Services Committees and explained to them what we were doing.

你知道，當我們在 2020 年 1 月擊斃蘇雷曼尼時，我的職責之一就是去聯繫我所屬的軍事委員會的相關成員，並向他們解釋我們在做什麼。

And then later we went before the Congress in a closed door session in both the House and Senate and explained the operations and what we were doing.

然後稍後我們在眾議院和參議院的閉門會議上向國會報告，並解釋了這次行動以及我們在做什麼。

So I think that's all part and parcel of what, what we do, what, what we should do.

所以我認為這都是我們所做、我們應該做的一部分。

It seems like they plan on doing that as well.

And I think that is those are all the right moves.

Esper 部長，你真是說到我心坎裡了。

I was going to ask you about the operation taking out Qasem Soleimani.

我正想問你關於擊斃卡西姆·蘇雷曼尼的行動。

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前國防部長艾斯培：政府決定空襲伊朗「做對了」！ (Former Defense Secretary Esper says administration 'made the right call' on Iran strikes)

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