Name: 波蘭副總理：「如果普丁成功征服烏克蘭，下一個就是我們！」| DW 新聞 (Poland's Deputy Prime Minister: If Putin succeeds in conquering Ukraine, we will be next | DW News)
Uploaded: 2026-02-14T17:15:41.000Z
Duration: 7 min 13 s

程度副詞

Poland is one of those European countries that benefited a lot from the very close transatlantic relationship post World War II.

波蘭是二戰後，從非常緊密的跨大西洋關係中獲益良多的歐洲國家之一。

情態副詞

So one of the people listening very carefully to Marco Rubio's speech in Munich was, of course, the Polish Foreign Minister, Radoszaw Sikorski.

所以，在慕尼黑仔細聆聽 Marco Rubio 演講的人當中，當然也包括了波蘭外交部長 Radoszaw Sikorski。

What did you make of Marco Rubio's speech?

您覺得 Marco Rubio 的演講怎麼樣？

Well, the return of American politeness was welcome.

嗯，美國式的禮貌回歸是值得歡迎的。

他也提出了一種新的協議形式。

He's right that our interests don't always coincide, but they do overlap.

他說得對，我們的利益並不總是完全一致，但確實有重疊之處。

And some of his message I personally agreed with.

有些他的論點，我個人是贊同的。

And on other things, like climate, I suspect we will agree to differ.

至於氣候這類事情，我猜我們可能會有不同意見。

What was somewhat disappointing was the absence of what we Europeans regard as the most urgent security threat to our continent, which is the Russian aggression against Ukraine.

有點令人失望的是，歐洲人認為對我們大陸最迫切的安全威脅，也就是俄羅斯對烏克蘭的侵略，卻沒有被提及。

Ukraine was not mentioned in Marco Rubio's speech.

烏克蘭在 Marco Rubio 的演講中並未被提及。

I can't answer for the United States, but

for us, at least in Poland, we think that if Putin succeeded in conquering Ukraine, we would be next and that the cost of deterring him on the Polish border, including for Germany, would be much higher.

對我們來說，至少在波蘭，我們認為如果普丁成功征服烏克蘭，下一個就會輪到我們，而且在波蘭邊境威懾他的成本，包括對德國來說，會高得多。

So we are paying for Ukraine's sustenance, both as a state and as a in the defensive war.

所以我們正在為烏克蘭的維持付出代價，無論是作為一個國家，還是在這場防禦戰中。

I personally believe that gives us the right to have a voice in these negotiations.

我個人認為這賦予了我們在這些談判中有發言權的權利。

Of course, we wish luck to the United States, but

it has to be a fair peace that respects Ukraine's red lines and respects the security of Europe.

這必須是一場公平的和平，尊重烏克蘭的紅線，並尊重歐洲的安全。

You said that Marco Rubio proposed a new deal.

你說 Marco Rubio 提出了一個新的協議。

What kind of a deal did Marco Rubio propose to the Europeans?

Marco Rubio 向歐洲人提議了什麼樣的協議？

Well, greater emphasis on the management of migration.

Here in Poland, we actually agree with him.

在波蘭這裡，我們其實同意他的看法。

They haven't yet completed their big and beautiful fence.

他們還沒蓋好他們那個又大又美的圍籬。

We have, at the cost of almost a billion euros, built a fence on our border with Belarus, which protects all of Europe from forced migration.

我們花了將近十億歐元，在我們與白俄羅斯的邊境蓋了一道圍籬，這道圍籬保護了整個歐洲免受強制移民的影響。

We believe that numbers matter and that as nation states or groups of nation states, we have the right to control who may legally live on our side of the border and who may not.

我們相信數字很重要，而且身為國家或國家集團，我們有權控制誰可以合法地住在我們邊境這邊，誰不行。

So on this we agree, but we feel that we've done more than them on migration.

所以這點我們同意，但我們覺得我們在移民議題上做得比他們多。

You may agree, but you already mentioned climate.

你或許同意，但你剛剛提到了氣候。

Marco Rubio spoke of a climate cult that essentially deterred or distracted Europeans from focusing on the right things.

Marco Rubio 說到一個氣候邪教，基本上讓歐洲人分心，無法專注在正確的事情上。

How much of an impact is that going to have that the White House and Marco Rubio say no more investment in climate protection?

根據白宮和 Marco Rubio 的說法，不再投資氣候保護，這會有多大的影響？

Well, in Europe, we feel responsible for the planet.

嗯，在歐洲，我們覺得對地球負有責任。

And we also think that transition, at least partial to renewables, lower in the medium term, will lower energy prices.

我們也認為，能源轉型，至少部分轉向再生能源，中期來看會降低能源價格。

So, you know, China doesn't just open coal plant.

所以，你知道，中國不只開設燃煤電廠。

It also has the biggest number of photovoltaic farms and, and windmills.

它也擁有最多的太陽能農場和風力發電機。

So I don't, you know, contrary to what was suggested, these are complementary efforts.

所以，你知道，與某些說法相反，這些是互補的努力。

But when you look at Marco Rubio's message to the Europeans, he also said, you know, we can go it alone, but

但當你看看 Marco Rubio 對歐洲人的訊息時，他也說，你知道，我們可以單獨行動，但是

如果你們願意，為什麼不加入我們呢？

How sobering is that for a country like Poland that has benefited a from a very close transatlantic relationship?

對像波蘭這樣一個非常依賴緊密的跨大西洋關係的國家來說，這有多麼令人警醒？

Well, in hard security terms, he's right.

嗯，就嚴峻的安全局勢而言，他說得對。

The United States has two big, beautiful oceans between them and their potential enemies.

美國有兩片廣闊美麗的海洋隔開，與潛在的敵人。

So the perception of threat is different.

The United States convened a conference on critical minerals at the State Department under the leadership of Marco Rubio and Vice President Vance.

美國在國務院召開了一場由 Marco Rubio 和副總統 Vance 領導的關鍵礦產會議。

The US identifying a common threat and convening allies to deal with it.

美國識別共同威脅並召集盟友來處理。

You can only be a leader if you have some followers.

如果你有一些追隨者，你才能成為領導者。

And when they do the right thing, of course, we should support them.

當他們做對的事情時，當然，我們應該支持他們。

Now, how much of a risk is it that the tone was more conciliatory than, of course, J.D.

那麼，這種語氣比去年在慕尼黑引起軒然大波的 J.D. Vance 更具安撫性，風險有多大？

vance, who caused an outcry last year here in Munich.

Vance，他去年在慕尼黑引起了軒然大波。

How much of a risk is it that it could lull some European countries into a false sense of security, Countries that currently don't invest the same amount as, for example, Poland does in defense and security?

這種語氣讓一些歐洲國家產生虛假的國家安全感，這些國家目前的國防和安全投資不如波蘭，風險有多大？

Well, I think we all got an awakening and the US was right on some issues.

嗯，我認為我們都經歷了一次覺醒，而且美國在某些問題上是正確的。

Western Europe was consuming the peace dividend for too long and credit where credit is due.

西歐享受了太久的和平紅利，這點要歸功於。

President Trump, in his inimitable style, told us that we need to get our act together, and

川普總統以他獨特的風格告訴我們，我們需要振作起來，

As Europeans, we are now spending double of what we were spending before he became president.

作為歐洲人，我們現在的開銷是他在擔任總統前的好幾倍。

You've even changed your constitution to start spending more on defence.

你們甚至修改了憲法，開始增加國防開支。

So that style partially works, but you can overdo.

所以這種風格部分奏效，但你可能會做得太過火。

And when you're that much more powerful, I think it's better to be polite and then you can have a conversation and then you can prepare for a new era in which NATO, in which Europeans will take responsibility for, for territorial defence.

而且當你們更強大時，我認為最好是先禮貌地溝通，然後你們就可以準備進入一個新的時代，在這個時代，北約，歐洲人將為領土防禦負責。

In Europe, we are rich enough to do it with some American help and we are negotiating the proportions.

在歐洲，我們夠富裕，可以在美國的幫助下做到這一點，我們正在協商比例。

it's just a fact that the closer you are to Russia, the more you invest in your security and defense and the further away you are.

事實是，你離俄羅斯越近，你就越會投資於你的安全和國防，反之亦然。

It tells you a great deal about the nature of the Russian regime.

這充分說明瞭俄羅斯政權的本質。

The real threat to Europe is Russia's state ideology, an ideology of autocracy and of expansion, of rebuilding the empire.

對歐洲真正的威脅是俄羅斯的國家意識形態，一種專制和擴張的意識形態，重建帝國。

And that would necessarily happen at our expense, and we must not permit that.

而這必然會以我們的犧牲為代價，我們絕不能允許這種情況發生。

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波蘭副總理：「如果普丁成功征服烏克蘭，下一個就是我們！」| DW 新聞 (Poland's Deputy Prime Minister: If Putin succeeds in conquering Ukraine, we will be next | DW News)

perception

consume

identify

interpret