Name: 明尼蘇達州州長：ICE與諾姆讓城市「安全感大打折扣」！ (MN mayor: ICE and Noem are making city ‘far less safe’)
Uploaded: 2026-01-12T17:08:46.000Z
Duration: 7 min 39 s

And joining us now to respond, Minneapolis Mayor Jacob Fry and Minneapolis Police Chief Brian o'.

現在加入我們回應的是明尼亞波利斯市長 Jacob Fry 和明尼亞波利斯警察局長 Brian o'

程度副詞

Mayor Fry, your response to what you just heard from Secretary Noem.

Fry 市長，您對 Noem 部長剛才說的話有什麼回應？

You know, it sounds like she doesn't believe a single word that she is saying right now.

聽起來她現在說的每一個字她自己都不相信。

And I don't know if Donald Trump was drinking a glass of water if she'd actually be able to speak, because here's the thing.

我不知道川普是不是喝了杯水，她是不是真的能說出話來，因為事情是這樣的。

She's calling Minneapolis like this dystopian hellhole.

她把明尼亞波利斯說成是個反烏託邦的地獄。

You know how many shootings we've had so far this year?

你知道我們今年到目前為止發生了多少起槍擊案嗎？

Two shootings in a large city so far this entire year.

今年到目前為止，一個大城市發生了兩起槍擊案。

This is a safe city, ice and Kristi Noem and everything they're doing is making it far less safe.

這是一個安全的城市，ICE 和 Kristi Noem 以及他們所做的一切都讓它變得不那麼安全了。

I want you to respond to what she said about you telling ICE to get the F out.

我想請你回應她說你叫 ICE 滾出去的事。

She says you and the leaders of Minneapolis have been demonizing ICE officers.

她說你和明尼亞波利斯的領導人一直在妖魔化 ICE 官員。

And it is true that you've been critical of Secretary Noem for her quick characterization of the incident.

而且你確實批評了 Noem 部長對這起事件的快速定性。

But you also said on Wednesday, quote, this was a federal agent recklessly using power that resulted in somebody dying.

但你週三也說過，引述，「這是一名聯邦探員魯莽地濫用權力，導致有人死亡。」

Yeah, yeah, I said this was a federal agent recklessly using power that ended up in somebody dying because that was a federal agent recklessly using power that ended up in somebody dying.

是的，是的，我說這是一名聯邦探員魯莽地濫用權力，導致有人死亡，因為那是一名聯邦探員魯莽地濫用權力，導致有人死亡。

我是說，這件事裡我會有偏見嗎？

而且我會因為我有兩隻眼睛而有偏見。

Anybody can see that this victim is not a domestic terrorist.

任何人都可以看到這位受害者不是國內恐怖分子。

I mean, my goodness, she's like doing a three or a four or five point turn.

我是說，我的天啊，她就像在做一個三轉、四轉或五轉。

This looks like somebody that's trying to get out of there.

這看起來像是一個想逃離現場的人。

If doing a three point turn or a four point turn is a domestic terrorist, and

如果做三點轉彎或四點轉彎是國內恐怖分子，

We've got to be operating from a point of, of course, have this investigation.

我們必須基於一個前提來進行調查，那就是當然要進行調查。

It should be a neutral, unbiased investigation where you get the facts.

這應該是一場中立、公正的調查，讓你能夠掌握事實。

by the way, I shouldn't be the one conducting the investigation, nor should Kristi Noem, but

順帶一提，我、或是 Noem 部長都不該是負責調查的人，但

you should have an entity that is able to do it with some common sense and operating in reality.

你應該要有一個有常識、腳踏實地、能夠執行調查的單位。

Chief, what's your reaction to the Homeland Security Secretary's claims and also just the assertion that the officer feared for his life?

局長，您對國土安全部長的說法以及員警聲稱擔心自己性命的說法有什麼看法？

Well, I got to tell you, as a matter of policy and training amongst professional police departments for many, many years in this country, we have an obligation to Ensure, particularly during traffic stops, that our officers are doing everything possible so that we don't unnecessarily put their lives in jeopardy, so that our officers are not unnecessarily creating a risk of imminent threat to or serious bodily injury, either to themselves or others.

嗯，我必須告訴你，就這個國家專業警察部門長久以來的政策和訓練來說，我們有義務確保，尤其是在交通攔檢時，我們的員警盡一切可能，以免不必要地危及他們的生命，以免我們的員警不必要地對自己或他人造成迫在眉睫的威脅或嚴重身體傷害的風險。

And that means that they have to employ sound tactics and must be proportional in what they do.

這意味著他們必須採取穩健的策略，並且必須在行動上有所比例。

儘管如此，這也不是百分之百絕對。

Law enforcement officers cannot control the actions of other people.

執法人員無法控制他人的行為。

And that's why a full and thorough investigation in every case where there is a use of force is necessary.

這也是為什麼在每一次使用武力的情況下，都必須進行全面而徹底的調查。

I will be the first one to stand up for my cops when a situation happens.

當情況發生時，我會第一個站出來為我的員警辯護。

And it is abundantly clear that there's no indication to think that an officer could have possibly done anything else.

而且，很明顯地，沒有任何跡象顯示員警可能還有別的選擇。

I'll be the first one to stand up and say, my cop put their lives on the line and they did what they have to do.

我會第一個站出來說，我的員警冒著生命危險，做了他們必須做的事。

And I have no reason to think that it wasn't anything other than our policy and lawful.

我沒有理由認為這不是按照我們的政策和法律行事的。

But I think, you know, we have to use caution even as Tom Homan has said, and

但我認為，你知道，我們必須謹慎，即使Tom Homan說過，

allow a full and impartial investigation to proceed.

讓全面而公正的調查繼續進行。

Mayor Frye, the police union in Minnesota released a statement that says, in part, the hateful and anti law enforcement rhetoric by Mayor Frey and other politicians have made their jobs and those of local and state law enforcement more difficult and dangerous.

Frye市長，明尼蘇達州的員警工會發表了一份聲明，其中提到，市長Frey和其他政客仇恨且反對執法的言論，讓他們以及地方和州執法人員的工作變得更加困難和危險。

The job of law enforcement is difficult and dangerous enough without the agitation by leaders in our state and communities, unquote.

執法工作本身已經夠困難和危險了，不需要我們州和社區的領導者煽動，引號結束。

Do you think that you could bring down your rhetoric?

你認為你可以降低你的言論嗎？

Our police officers in Minneapolis are doing an incredible job.

我們明尼亞波利斯的員警表現非常出色。

我為能和他們一起工作感到非常驕傲。

I was the guy, by the way, that stood up against defunding the police back when it was hard five years ago.

順帶一提，五年前當大家都不敢發聲時，是我站出來反對削減警力的。

And these honorable officers that have stayed and that have come on have been incredible, by the way, community members that have traditionally been pretty critical of law enforcement officers are supporting our police.

而且，這些忠誠的員警，無論是留下來的還是新加入的，都非常棒。順帶一提，過去對員警頗有微詞的社區成員，現在都在支持我們的員警。

They have abided by the Constitution, which is a massive juxtaposition against what we've seen from some of these ICE agents.

他們遵守了憲法，這和我們看到的一些 ICE 官員的行為形成了強烈的對比。

So, I mean, as far as my position vis a vis law enforcement, no, we're there with them.

所以，我的意思是，就我對執法的立場來說，我們是支持他們的。

It's the Minnesota Police Union saying that your rhetoric is agitates these protesters.

是明尼蘇達員警工會說你的言論煽動了這些抗議者。

Look, I can't speak for the police union.

你看，我無法代表員警工會發言。

And I am grateful for the work of police officers in our city, especially the last several days.

我對我們城市員警的工作感到感激，尤其是在過去幾天。

I mean, these servants are tired, they're working tirelessly.

我的意思是，這些為民服務的人很累，他們不知疲倦地工作。

They're drastically, by the way, outnumbered by the number of ICE agents and beyond that we have in our city right now.

你看，我們城市現在的 ICE 探員人數遠遠超過了員警。

And they deserve our full throated support.

Mayor, what would you say to somebody who says, look, these ICE agents, they're also law enforcement.

市長，您會怎麼跟那些說 ICE 探員也是執法人員的人說呢？

They're doing a job that they were sent to do by President Trump and Secretary Noem.

他們是在執行川普總統和 Noem 部長交辦的任務。

They're not there because they want to be there.

他們不是因為自己想去才在那裡。

They're there because they were told to be there.

他們是因為被告知要去才在那裡。

And if people have an issue with it, that's true.

如果有人對此有意見，那確實是如此。

They shouldn't be protesting the ICE agents, they should be protesting outside the White House.

他們不應該抗議 ICE 探員，而應該到白宮外面抗議。

Well, and I think that's probably a fair point in that.

Look, of course you need to enforce laws, of course, but

你看，當然需要執法，當然，但是

there's also a requirement that you carry out laws and carry out enforcement in a constitutional way.

同時也要求你們要依法行政，並且要以合憲的方式來執行。

And what we've seen is that people are being plucked off the street indiscriminately.

而我們看到的是，人們被隨意地從街上抓走。

There's discrimination only to the extent that they are Latino or they are Somali, and

歧視只發生在他們是拉丁裔或索馬利亞裔的時候，

then it feels, feels indiscriminate thereafter.

然後之後就感覺，感覺是隨機的。

We've got pregnant women getting dragged through the street.

We've got, you know, high schoolers just getting American citizens, by the way, getting taken away.

我們看到，你知道的，高中生，順帶一提，他們是美國公民，卻被帶走了。

And so, yeah, I think it's a fair point to say, well, these ICE agents are being put in a horrible position because they're asked to do things that are not legal or are unconstitutional.

所以，嗯，我認為說「這些 ICE 探員處於一個糟糕的境地，因為他們被要求做不合法或違憲的事情」，這點說得通。

But here's the thing, they're still doing them and we are still dealing with the repercussions here in this city.

但重點是，他們還是在做這些事，而我們在這個城市還在處理後果。

Minneapolis has been on this glorious, amazing comeback.

明尼亞波利斯一直以來都有一個光榮、驚人的復甦。

And this is just setting us back because we've got a deal with it.

這只是讓我們倒退，因為我們必須處理這件事。

And so, no, you know, look, Minneapolis, we're going to get through this.

所以，不，你知道的，你看，明尼亞波利斯，我們會度過難關的。

We had 10,000 or something people protest peacefully yesterday.

We have thousands and hundreds of thousands of people that are standing up for their neighbors right now.

現在有成千上萬的人在支持他們的鄰居。

We have people that are not taking the bait of this Trump administration because they all know we know they're looking for any excuse to come in with greater force and occupy our city.

我們的人沒有被這個川普政府的誘餌牽著走，因為他們都知道，我們知道他們正在尋找任何藉口來進一步鎮壓並佔領我們的城市。

We are doing right by our city and the people in it, and we're not backing down.

我們正在為我們的城市和其中的人民做對的事，而且我們不會退縮。

I have a weekday show every day, 5 to 7 Eastern.

我每天平日都有節目，東岸時間下午五點到七點。