Name: 烏克蘭和平談判的重大突破 | DW 新聞 (Stand-out developments from Ukraine peace talks | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-16T10:40:49.000Z
Duration: 12 min 17 s

Ukraine's President Zelensky says peace talks with US Negotiators have been productive but not easy.

烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基表示，與美國談判代表的和談富有成效但並不容易。

He was speaking following talks in Berlin aimed at reaching a peace deal to end the war in Ukraine.

他是在柏林進行旨在達成和平協議以結束烏克蘭戰爭的會談後發表的談話。

Zelensky said he wants clear security guarantees for his country from the US And Europe before he will consider making territorial concessions to Russia.

澤倫斯基說，在考慮向俄羅斯做出領土讓步之前，他希望美國和歐洲能為他的國家提供明確的安全保障。

He has been under heavy pressure from the Trump administration to cede territory to Russia in exchange for peace.

在川普政府的巨大壓力下，他被要求以割讓領土給俄羅斯來換取和平。

A reception with the German president, talks with the German chancellor, an appearance before business leaders, and

與德國總統的接待會、與德國總理的會談、在商界領袖面前的演講，以及

Volodymyr Zelensky spent two days in Berlin engaging in intensive talks aimed at ending Russia's war on Ukraine.

澤倫斯基在柏林進行了為期兩天的密集會談，旨在結束俄羅斯對烏克蘭的戰爭。

However, the most important meetings took place almost entirely behind closed doors.

然而，最重要的會議幾乎完全是閉門進行的。

Those with US Negotiators Steve Witkoff and Jared Kushner.

那些與美國談判代表史蒂夫·維特科夫和賈裡德·庫什納的會議。

The president of Ukraine, said afterwards the meeting meetings were not easy, but productive.

烏克蘭總統事後表示，會議不容易，但富有成效。

Wytkov indicated that they made a lot of progress in the talks, but did not elaborate.

維特科夫表示，他們在會談中取得了很大進展，但沒有詳述。

official said it's now up to Ukraine to decide what territories in the Donbas region might be given to Russia.

官員說，現在要由烏克蘭決定頓巴斯地區哪些領土可以割讓給俄羅斯。

President Zelenskyy reiterated he cannot relinquish territories in eastern Ukraine permanently which are currently occupied by Russia.

澤倫斯基總統重申，他不能永久放棄目前被俄羅斯佔領的烏克蘭東部領土。

But he has conceded on NATO membership for Ukraine, tentatively accepting new security guarantees instead.

但他已經在北約成員國身份上做出讓步，暫時接受了新的安全保障。

We have heard from the US that there will be security guarantees that are similar to NATO's collective defense pledge, Article 5, and

我們從美國那裡聽說，將會有類似北約集體防禦承諾第五條的安全保障，

that is a first step, then the question of monitoring a ceasefire.

這是第一步，然後是監督停火的問題。

I would say this is the very foundation of security guarantees.

The German Chancellor appealed to the Russian leadership to stop attacks on Ukraine and to accept the common peace plan drafted by the us, The Europeans and Ukraine.

德國總理呼籲俄羅斯領導層停止攻擊烏克蘭，並接受美國、歐洲和烏克蘭起草的共同和平計劃。

Perhaps the Russian leadership still has a shred of human decency left and will at least leave the population in peace for a few days over Christmas.

或許俄羅斯領導層還殘存一絲人道良知，至少能在聖誕節期間讓民眾幾天安寧。

And perhaps that could then be the beginning of reasonable, constructive talks on how we can achieve lasting peace in Ukraine.

或許這就能成為展開合理、有建設性會談的開端，討論如何能在烏克蘭實現持久和平。

After talks in Berlin, the German government is looking to U.S.

在柏林會談後，德國政府正尋求美國

negotiators to convince Russia's leader, Vladimir Putin, to accept the peace plan.

談判代表說服俄羅斯領導人普丁接受和平計畫。

A US official in Berlin said 90% of the issues between Russia and Ukraine have been resolved now, but

一位在柏林的美國官員表示，俄羅斯和烏克蘭之間 90% 的問題都已經解決了，但是

a date for the next meeting with the Russians has not yet been set.

與俄羅斯下次會面的日期尚未確定。

Simon Young joins us now from in front of the Chancellor.

Simon Young 現在從總理府外跟我們連線。

He has been following the talks today and yesterday.

Of course, Simon, European leaders are attending right now a meeting and proposing a European led multinational force.

當然了，Simon，歐洲領導人目前正在參加一個會議，並提議組建一個由歐洲主導的多國部隊。

What more can you tell us about this proposal that's on the table?

你能多告訴我們一些關於這個提出的方案嗎？

Yeah, Nicole, this is part of a statement that European Leaders who've been meeting at the Chancellor here in Berlin behind me have released this evening and it talks about a wide range of support measures for Ukraine now and going forward during a ceasefire and in the reconstruction process.

是的，Nicole，這是總理在這裡，在我身後的柏林開會的歐洲領導人今晚發布的一份聲明的一部分，聲明中談到了對烏克蘭現在和未來在停火期間以及重建過程中的廣泛支持措施。

And I think the chief point is the one you've already mentioned, this multinational force, Ukraine, made up of countries in the framework of the coalition of the willing, that's European nations primarily, that have been supporting Ukraine and it also says backed by the United States.

我認為最主要的一點是你已經提到的，這支由歐洲國家組成的多國部隊，主要是在「志同道合者聯盟」的框架內，這些國家一直在支持烏克蘭，而且聲明也提到將由美國提供支持。

And the role of that will be both to assist in the training and and regeneration of the Ukrainian Defense Forces, but

它的作用將是協助烏克蘭國防軍的訓練和重整，但

also to help them in securing their airspace and also their maritime coast.

同時也協助他們確保領空和海岸線的安全。

And as part of that, it says that US Support should continue, particularly to help the Ukrainians in surveillance of their airspace and of their territory, monitoring any ceasefire.

在此聲明中，也提到美國應該繼續提供支持，特別是協助烏克蘭監控領空和領土，並監測任何停火情況。

The document also talks about Ukraine continuing to maintain a peacetime defense force level of 800,000 troops.

文件中也提到烏克蘭將繼續維持一支80萬兵力的和平時期國防軍。

And it also goes on to say that the ball is really now in Moscow's court.

文件中還提到，球現在真的在莫斯科那邊。

It's up to them to accept this peace plan, a plan that I believe European leaders are presenting this as a common peace plan supported by Ukraine, by the Europeans, but

由他們決定是否接受這個和平計畫，我相信歐洲領導人將此作為烏克蘭和歐洲共同支持的和平計畫，但

So something like a breakthrough this evening here in Berlin.

所以今晚在柏林這裡，似乎會有個突破。

But does it get even close to the Article 5 like security guarantees that Ukraine has been asking for?

但這能接近烏克蘭一直要求的、類似北約第五條的安全保障嗎？

Do we know how it's going to work in practice?

我們知道實際操作會是怎樣嗎？

Well, like I said, I think it's talking about supporting Ukraine's military, but

嗯，就像我說的，我認為這是關於支持烏克蘭軍隊，但

also in terms of keeping its own strength up to readiness.

也是在維持自身戰備實力方面。

But they're also talking clearly about putting European forces on Ukrainian territory.

但他們也明確提到要在烏克蘭領土上部署歐洲部隊。

But exactly what form that will take, how many of them that will be is not clear.

但具體會是什麼形式，有多少人，這還不清楚。

If they're really only there to, as it were, do training and assist, then that might not be the so many of them.

如果他們真的只是在那裡，像是進行訓練和協助，那人數可能就不會那麼多。

And of course this is going to be a key point of dissension with Moscow, which has said that it wants to see a sort of almost demilitarized Ukraine going forward.

而且當然，這將是與莫斯科產生重大分歧的關鍵點，莫斯科曾表示，他們希望看到烏克蘭未來幾乎處於非軍事化狀態。

So it's not a security guarantee in that sense.

所以這在那個意義上不是安全保障。

But at least if they saying that the United States are on board monitoring a ceasefire, guaranteeing it and willing to intervene in some form, the details of course have yet to be worked out.

但至少如果他們說美國正在支持監督停火，並願意以某種形式進行幹預，細節當然還有待確定。

Then that comes some way, it goes some way, at least to providing those all important security guarantees for the Ukrainians.

那麼這在某種程度上，至少在為烏克蘭人提供那些至關重要的安全保障方面，會有所幫助。

You said it's set to happen in the framework of the so called coalition of the willing.

你說這將在所謂的「意願聯盟」框架下進行。

Do we know what countries would take part in it?

Is it likely that all EU countries will agree to this.

所有歐盟國家都可能同意這個嗎？

And we're, of course, looking at the usual suspect, Hungary there.

而且我們當然也在關注匈牙利這個常見的懷疑對象。

Well, I think those, those again, are among the details to be worked out.

嗯，我認為那些，那些又是在待定細節之中。

I don't suppose it is relevant that all EU countries would be involved, but

我猜測並非所有歐盟國家都會參與，但

clearly this is something that's got the backing also of NATO.

And, you know, this idea of a multinational force is not the first time it's been mentioned, but

而且，你知道，這種多國部隊的想法不是第一次被提出，但是

I think it's the first time it's been given this prominence in one of these documents that the international leadership have been working on for months and indeed years to try and find a way forward to peace in Ukraine.

我認為這是第一次在這些國際領導人為了尋求烏克蘭和平而數月甚至數年來努力的文件中，獲得如此重要的地位。

And, you know, now they're talking about this idea more clearly.

而且，你知道，現在他們更清楚地談論這個想法了。

They also say that they'll continue to work intensively over the coming days.

他們也說，他們將在接下來幾天繼續密集工作。

We've got a European summit coming up later this week, but

這週晚些時候將有一個歐洲峰會，但

of course it's going to take a bit longer than that, I'm sure, to put all the details around this idea into position.

我相信，要將這個想法的所有細節到位，肯定需要比這更長的時間。

Well, to shed more light on this, let's bring in John Hardy, Russia Program deputy director at the foundation for the Defence of Democracies.

為了更深入地瞭解，讓我們請教國防民主基金會俄羅斯計畫副主任 John Hardy。

john, thank you so much for joining us here on dw.

Basically, all of the participants of today's talk speak of real or significant progress being made.

基本上，今天所有參與會談的人都談到了真正的或重大的進展。

It does sound like there was significant the Ukrainians see significant progress in the kind of aspect of the discussion focused on security guarantees.

聽起來烏克蘭人確實看到了在安全保障方面的討論取得了重大進展。

That seems to be where they're most happy with what President Trump and his envoys have on offer.

這似乎是他們對川普總統和他的代表提出的建議最滿意的地方。

The issue of territory, though, I think is probably the biggest sticking point with Wyckoff and Kushner kind of pushing the Ukrainians to agree to Russia's demand to withdraw from the rest of the Donbass, something that Putin says his forces will do by force if the Ukrainians don't agree, although in my view, there's really very little prospect the Russians can achieve that and therefore the Ukrainians don't see much reason to oblige.

然而，領土問題，我認為可能是最大的癥結所在，Witkoff 和 Kushner 正在推動烏克蘭人同意俄羅斯從頓巴斯其他地區撤軍的要求，普丁說如果烏克蘭人不同意，他的軍隊將武力達成，儘管在我看來，俄羅斯人幾乎不可能達成，是以烏克蘭人認為沒有太多理由必須同意。

And what specifically stood out to you there, especially on the topic of US Security guarantees?

具體來說，有哪些地方讓你印象深刻，特別是在美國安全保障這個話題上？

Well, if you look at previous drafts of what the US has on offer and kind of some of the signals coming out of Berlin, it sounds like what's on offer is significantly more than Ukraine has ever received from the United States.

嗯，如果你看看美國過去提出的草案以及從柏林傳出的一些信號，聽起來他們提出的比烏克蘭從美國獲得的任何東西都要多得多。

You know, not quite as good as membership in NATO, but it's not nothing.

你知道，雖然不像加入北約那麼好，但也不是沒有。

That being said, I do worry that the Trump administration might be getting out a Little bit over its skis.

話雖如此，我確實擔心川普政府可能有點過度承諾了。

Some of the language is really, is Article 5 like, where there's not explicit commitment to intervene militarily in Ukraine, but

其中一些措辭，真的，就像北約第五條那樣，雖然沒有明確承諾在烏克蘭進行軍事幹預，但是

And really, the recent presidents, on a bipartisan basis haven't been willing to do that.

而且說真的，近幾任總統，不分黨派，都不願意這麼做。

I don't think there's any consensus in Congress about a willingness to do that.

我認為國會裡沒有任何關於願意這麼做的共識。

And so I just worry that we're kind of offering something that's hollow and if tested, would not respond accordingly, which could lead to undermined credibility in the actual Article 5 for NATO.

所以我只是擔心我們提供的東西可能是空泛的，一旦受到考驗，就不會做出相應的回應，這可能會導致北約實際第五條的可信度受到損害。

And with that specifically in mind, then, what do you think is your assessment of what made the progress actually possible?

具體考慮到這一點，你認為是什麼讓進展成為可能？

I mean, did the US Actually listen to the Europeans then, or did the Europeans maybe bow to US Pressure?

我是說，美國真的聽取了歐洲人的意見嗎？還是歐洲人可能屈服於美國的壓力？

I think the Trump administration has been generally receptive to the fact that Ukraine wants some sort of security guarantee to enable it to do a peace deal.

我認為川普政府普遍接受烏克蘭想要某種安全保障以促成和平協議的事實。

I think everyone understands that we don't want to have a third war.

我認為大家都明白我們不想有第三次世界大戰。

And unfortunately, I think that however this war ends, if it does end in negotiated settlement, it's unlikely to kind of fundamentally resolve the basic struggle between Russia and Ukraine over Ukraine's future and sovereignty.

而不幸的是，我認為無論這場戰爭如何結束，如果它以協商解決的方式結束，俄羅斯和烏克蘭之間關於烏克蘭未來和主權的基本鬥爭不太可能得到根本解決。

So the chances of a third war, unfortunately, are high.

所以，第三次世界大戰的機會，不幸的是，很高。

So the need for a security guarantee is obvious.

是以，安全保障的必要性顯而易見。

I think that the Ukrainians have been explaining to Wyckoff and Kushner that if they are going to show any sort of flexibility on territory, that there's going to have to be kind of that firm guarantee to give them the flexibility and confidence to do that and to be able to sell it to the Ukrainian people.

我認為烏克蘭人一直在向 Wyckoff 和 Kushner 解釋，如果他們要在領土上表現出任何靈活性，就必須有那種堅定的保障，讓他們有靈活性和信心這樣做，並能向烏克蘭人民推銷。

And even if something is ultimately agreed upon, will the Russians play along?

即使最終達成協議，俄羅斯人也會遵守嗎？

I think that if you look at what the Kremlin has been saying about these talks with Ukrainians and Europeans, what they're saying is basically, hey, don't, don't get too comfortable because, you know, all the concessions you're doing to make this deal more palatable to Ukraine and the Europeans, we want the opposite.

我認為，如果你看看克里姆林宮對與烏克蘭人和歐洲人的這些談判說了什麼，他們基本上是說，嘿，別太得意，因為，你知道，你為了讓這項協議對烏克蘭人和歐洲人來說更容易接受而做出的所有讓步，我們想要相反的。

And so, you know, for example, much of the language on security guarantees, particularly surrounding, you know, potential Western deployments inside Ukraine, is going to be unacceptable to the Kremlin.

所以，你知道，例如，關於安全保障的許多措辭，特別是圍繞著，你知道，西方可能在烏克蘭境內部署軍隊，這對克里姆林宮來說是不可接受的。