Name: 德國召見俄羅斯大使，指控莫斯科進行破壞、網路攻擊與幹預！ (Germany summons Russian ambassador, accusing Moscow of sabotage, cyberattacks, and interference)
Uploaded: 2025-12-13T17:08:37.000Z
Duration: 16 min 6 s

Attacks on Germany's air traffic control, attempts to meddle in German elections.

德國航空交通管制遭受攻擊，以及試圖幹預德國選舉。

Today, Berlin summoned Russia's ambassador, made those accusations and said there will be consequences.

今天，柏林傳召了俄羅斯大使，提出了這些指控，並表示會有後果。

We begin the day with Germany pointing the finger at Russia.

我們今天就從德國指責俄羅斯開始。

On Friday, Germany summoned Russia's ambassador, accusing Moscow of carrying out sabotage, cyber attacks and election interference.

週五，德國傳召了俄羅斯大使，指控莫斯科進行破壞、網絡攻擊和選舉幹預。

Berlin says it's all part of Russia's hybrid warfare that has intensified since its full scale invasion of Ukraine.

柏林表示，這一切都是俄羅斯混合戰爭的一部分，自其全面入侵烏克蘭以來，這場戰爭已加劇。

And Germany is not alone in saying that Russia is meddling in Europe.

而德國並非唯一一個表示俄羅斯干預歐洲的國家。

In recent months, Poland has accused Russia of sabotaging its rail infrastructure, while several European countries report violations of their airspace, including drone sightings, airport disruptions and growing cyber threats.

近幾個月來，波蘭指控俄羅斯破壞其鐵路基礎設施，同時歐洲多國報告了空域侵犯，包括無人機目擊、機場中斷和日益增長的網絡威脅。

These claims have been denied by the Kremlin.

DW Simon Young has more now on Germany's accusations.

DW 的 Simon Young 現在將為我們帶來更多關於德國指控的細節。

Yes, Brent, the government says that Russia has been attacking Germany in several ways through sabotage, espionage, cyber attacks and disinformation campaigns.

是的，Brent，政府表示俄羅斯一直透過破壞、間諜活動、網絡攻擊和虛假資訊宣傳活動，以多種方式攻擊德國。

And it's given some specific examples, as you mentioned.

而正如你所說，他們也提供了一些具體例子。

They say that the Russian military intelligence service GRU was behind an attack, a cyber attack on the information systems of Germany's air traffic control in August 2024.

他們表示，俄羅斯軍事情報局GRU在2024年8月發動了針對德國航空交通管制資訊系統的網絡攻擊。

They say that they have hard evidence that that attack was carried out by or was linked to a Russian hacker group called Fancy Bear.

他們說，他們有確鑿證據顯示，這次攻擊是由一個名為Fancy Bear的俄羅斯駭客組織所為，或與其有關。

And another example, they claim that the GRU was behind a disinformation campaign called Storm 1516, which has been running for some years and has been targeting, among other things, elections here in Germany, including the national election in February this year when it said that they spread false information about leading candidates, including Friedrich Metz, and

另一個例子是，他們聲稱GRU是名為Storm 1516的虛假資訊宣傳活動的幕後黑手，該活動已持續多年，並針對包括德國在內的歐洲國家選舉，包括今年二月的全國大選，他們散佈了關於主要候選人（包括Friedrich Metz）的虛假資訊，

also they spread faked videos about allegations of ballot rigging.

並且散播了關於舞弊指控的偽造影片。

So I should say in the past, Moscow has always denied that it is involved in any way in sabotage or hybrid attacks on European countries.

所以，我應該說，過去莫斯科一直否認以任何方式參與對歐洲國家的破壞或混合戰爭。

That was Simon Young there reporting here in Berlin.

以上是Simon Young在柏林的報導。

Our coverage continues now with Emil Archambeau, a fellow at the center for Security and Defense at the German Council on Foreign Relations here in Berlin.

我們的報導現在繼續，由德國外交關係委員會安全與國防中心研究員Emil Archambeau為我們帶來更多內容。

You know, we do not have access to the evidence that the German government is using as it makes these accusations against Russia.

你知道，我們無法接觸到德國政府在對俄羅斯提出這些指控時所使用的證據。

But considering the sheer volume of alleged attacks and the kinds of attacks, how certain are you that this is what Berlin says it is?

不過，考慮到這些攻擊的數量之多以及攻擊的類型，你對這是否就是柏林所說的俄羅斯混合攻擊有多確定？

The evidence that the government has is confidential, and that is by design.

政府掌握的證據是機密的，這是有意為之。

We don't know what sources have been used to obtain that evidence, but

我們不知道是用什麼來源獲得這些證據的，但是

that might be very advanced or covert means to do that.

這可能需要非常先進或隱蔽的手段才能做到。

I think that the scale of potential of activities that are alleged and some of them that we might recall ourselves having experienced ourselves, make it plausible and highly plausible that these are indeed part of Russian operations.

我認為，這些被指控的活動規模，以及其中一些我們可能還記得自己經歷過的，使得這些活動確實是俄羅斯行動的一部分，這是有可能的，而且可能性很高。

And I think that the government would not be making those accusations if it did not indeed have very strong evidence that that is the case, because those are very serious accusations.

我認為，如果政府沒有非常確鑿的證據證明確實如此，他們就不會提出這些指控，因為這些都是非常嚴重的指控。

Hybrid attacks, as you know, can mean many things, but there is one crucial exception.

混合攻擊，如你所知，可以有很多意思，但有一個關鍵的例外。

Overt military attacks that would automatically be seen as an act of war.

明目張膽的軍事攻擊，那會被自動視為戰爭行為。

Talk to me about why that is so important in a NATO member such as Germany.

請跟我談談，為什麼這在像德國這樣的北約成員國中如此重要。

So there is something in NATO called Article 5, which is a commitment for common defense, and

所以北約有個叫做「第五條」的條款，這是共同防禦的承諾，

that is something that states must agree to activ.

They must agree that that threshold has been met.

他們必須同意已經達到了那個門檻。

Now, when we get into what is often called a gray zone, which is a state of certain attacks that do not necessarily meet that threshold in a very obvious way, as you say, and

現在，當我們進入所謂的「灰色地帶」，也就是某些攻擊狀態，它們不一定以非常明顯的方式達到那個門檻，正如你所說，

then there we get into that political game or that political space where it is very hard for states to coordinate and to determine what kind of response is appropriate.

那麼我們就進入了政治博弈或政治空間，國家很難協調並確定何種回應是適當的。

We would not expect NATO members to go into overwar against Russia over things such as what is alleged today, sabotage, cyber attacks, disinformation, but

我們不期望北約成員國會因為今天所指控的破壞、網絡攻擊、虛假資訊等事情而對俄羅斯發動全面戰爭，但

So then we get into a space where it is very difficult to calibrate the response and to coordinate that response with other European and NATO members, for instance.

所以我們就進入了一個很難校準回應，以及與其他歐洲和北約成員國協調回應的空間，舉例來說。

And, Emil, there's always this level of plausible deniability with hybrid attacks.

還有，Emil，混合戰爭總是存在著一種「可否認性」。

Russia can always claim that it did nothing, and

俄羅斯總是可以聲稱他們什麼都沒做，

it can say that people here in Germany, they may have seen something, but

而且他們可以說，德國這裡的人可能看到了一些東西，但

他們並沒有看到俄羅斯人在做任何事。

What does that mean for gathering evidence?

That is by design, that these attacks are plausibly, more or less plausibly, depending on the type of attack, deniable.

這是刻意設計的，這些攻擊是可以，或多或少可以，取決於攻擊類型，來否認的。

For instance, we have seen drones flying at German airports and other sensitive sites in Europe.

舉例來說，我們在德國機場和其他歐洲敏感地點看到無人機飛過。

We have not been able to make that case very publicly that those are indeed Russian drones.

我們無法公開地證明那些確實是俄羅斯的無人機。

There might be covered ways of establishing that, but that is very hard to prove with all certainty.

可能有隱蔽的方式來證明，但要百分之百確定非常困難。

Similarly, with sabotage, for instance, accidents happen, damage happens, fires happen, and

同樣地，像是破壞，意外會發生，損壞會發生，火災會發生，

then it can be very hard to prove that this is indeed hostile action and not just misfortune.

然後就很難證明這確實是敵對行為，而不是單純的意外。

When it happens on a large scale, then we start to see a pattern and we start looking for those.

當這種情況大規模發生時，我們就會開始看到模式，並開始尋找。

But for instance, in some of the cases that you were discussing earlier, those were incidents that would have happened in 2024, for instance, disinformation around elections and coordinated disinformation and so on.

但舉例來說，在你剛才討論的某些情況中，這些都是會發生的事件，例如 2024 年圍繞選舉的虛假資訊，以及協調一致的虛假資訊等等。

And we're just getting to a stage where it is possible to establish with reliable information who is responsible.

我們才剛進入一個階段，能夠可靠地確定是誰該負責。

That is what hybrid attacks are all about.

Playing with that uncertainty factor and the time that it takes to gather credible evidence that has to obviously work in Russia's favorite.

利用這種不確定因素，以及蒐集可信證據所需的時間，這顯然對俄羅斯有利。

It makes it very hard to establish a response and to coordinate a response.

這使得建立和協調應對措施變得非常困難。

We saw, for instance, in February 2022 when Russia launched a full scale invasion of Ukraine.

例如，我們在 2022 年 2 月看到俄羅斯對烏克蘭發動全面入侵。

The political response, the social response was immediate.

政治上的回應、社會上的回應是立即的。

It is much harder to mobilize political will, to mobilize social will for incidents that happened a year ago.

對於一年前發生的事件，要動員政治意願、動員社會意願要困難得多。

And all these incidents are very, perhaps very minor individually, but

而所有這些事件，單獨來看可能都很小，但

amount to something very serious as a unit.

And in some cases, individual incidents, of course, themselves can be.

而且在某些情況下，個別事件本身當然也可以。

When we talk about sabotage, for instance, one incident can be very serious.

當我們談論破壞時，例如，單一事件可能非常嚴重。

But by the time we have established the responsibility for becomes a much harder thing to coalesce a political coalition around.

但到我們確定了責任歸屬時，要凝聚一個政治聯盟就變得困難多了。

So that is something that advantages the attacker in these cases, and

所以這是在這些情況下對攻擊者有利的，而且

that is most likely Russia, as the government has said.

正如政府所說，這最有可能就是俄羅斯。

Yes, Germany has said that there will be consequences for these attacks.

是的，德國已表示這些攻擊將會產生後果。

How do you expect retaliation to these alleged hybrid attacks to look like?

你預期對這些所謂的混合戰爭攻擊，會有什麼樣的報復行動？

Well, one important factor is that these are not things that happen only in to Germany.

嗯，一個重要的因素是，這些事情並非只發生在德國。

As you mentioned, there needs to be a coordinated response among European, among NATO allies.

正如你所提到的，歐洲和北約盟友之間需要有協調一致的回應。

We would expect the response to be, in some cases, perhaps it might be symmetrical.

我們預期回應方式，在某些情況下，或許會是採取對稱的。

So we could expect, for instance, defensive operations disabling, for instance, targeting cyber networks or computer networks that were used to launch cyber attacks.

所以我們可以預期，例如，採取防禦性行動，像是癱瘓用於發動網絡攻擊的網絡或電腦網絡。

It might be a strengthening of political measures such as sanctions.

也許會加強政治措施，例如制裁。

We would obviously not expect a military response by NATO parties.

我們顯然不會預期北約成員國會採取軍事回應。

That is not what we're talking about here.

But there is a range of measures that would probably be in a similar space, political and limited targeted measures that would affect the Russian ability to conduct such attacks.

但有一系列措施，可能會處於類似的範疇，就是政治性和有限的針對性措施，這些措施會影響俄羅斯進行這類攻擊的能力。

How confident are you in Europe or NATO's ability to respond to these alleged hybrid attacks?

你對歐洲或北約應對這些所謂的混合戰爭攻擊的能力有多大信心？

Well, one of the factors that is always challenging to respond to is that these attacks thrive in uncertainty and coming from unexpected direction.

嗯，其中一個應對起來總是充滿挑戰的因素是，這些攻擊在不確定性和來自意想不到的方向中滋長。

So that is always something that is very challenging to respond to.

所以這總是個很難應對的狀況。

So first of all, there is a technological component to it.

We need to be able to have better systems to detect such intrusions, to detect, for instance, cyber attacks, to trace, identify and detect drones, for instance, that might be threatening critical infrastructure.

我們需要有更好的系統來偵測這類入侵，例如偵測網絡攻擊，追蹤、識別並偵測可能威脅關鍵基礎設施的無人機。

And we need to be able to do that much faster.

而且我們需要能更快地做到這一點。

The second part is mobilizing political will.

And there have been, there have been interesting and encouraging developments in that regard, coordinating a rapid response among NATO members to be able to respond efficiently and as a bloc, not only as disorganized units.

在這方面，已經有一些令人感興趣且鼓舞人心的發展，協調北約成員國之間的快速反應，以便能以一個整體而非零散的單位有效應對。

There needs to be a united front against this threat.

需要有一個統一戰線來對抗這個威脅。

Emil, unfortunately, we're out of time, but

Emil，很可惜，我們時間到了，但是

we appreciate your time tonight and we appreciate you sharing your insights.

我們很感謝您今晚的時間，也很感謝您分享您的見解。

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德國召見俄羅斯大使，指控莫斯科進行破壞、網路攻擊與幹預！ (Germany summons Russian ambassador, accusing Moscow of sabotage, cyberattacks, and interference)

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strategy

evidence

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