Name: 體內永遠存在的化學物質——《世界萬象》Podcast，BBC World Service (The forever chemicals that end up in our bodies - What in the World podcast, BBC World Service)
Uploaded: 2026-03-30T11:24:38.000Z
Duration: 13 min 17 s

When these PFAS get into our bodies, they can interfere with our different biological systems.

當這些PFAS進入我們體內，它們會干擾我們不同的生物系統。

So, for example, they can cause issues with our thyroid, they can cause liver and kidney problems.

所以，舉例來說，它們會造成甲狀腺問題，也會造成肝臟和腎臟問題。

I love my makeup, and I was reading they're in makeup too.

我好喜歡我的化妝品，我看到說它們也存在於化妝品裡。

They're often found within waterproof mascara, for example, but

例如，它們常常出現在防水睫毛膏裡，

also because they're oil resistant they're often used also in foundations, concealers.

但因為它們耐油，所以也常被用在粉底、遮瑕膏裡。

Let's talk about the chemicals that can be in your clothes, makeup, and food packaging.

我們來聊聊衣物、化妝品和食品包裝裡可能存在的化學物質。

Apparently they can take hundreds, maybe even thousands, of years to break down.

顯然它們需要數百年，甚至數千年才能分解。

We're talking about forever chemicals, or PFAS.

我們說的就是永久性化學物質，也就是PFAS。

There's a lot of information out there about them, how harmful they are, the effects of them—I know it can feel quite overwhelming.

關於它們的資訊很多，它們有多麼有害，它們的影響——我知道這可能會讓人覺得有點壓倒性。

So this episode is dedicated to forever chemicals and getting you some answers on them: how harmful are they, how can we avoid them.

所以這一集是專門講永久性化學物質，並為你解答相關問題：它們有多有害？我們該如何避免它們？

I'm Ikra, and this is What's in the World from the BBC World Service.

我是 Ikra，這裡是 BBC World Service 的「世界萬象」。

Esme Stallard is a climate and science reporter for the BBC.

Esme Stallard 是 BBC 的氣候與科學記者。

Esme, I wanted to start off talking about the word "forever chemicals." When we say forever chemicals, what does that actually mean?

Esme，我想先從「永久性化學物質」這個詞開始聊。當我們說永久性化學物質時，這到底是什麼意思？

So we're actually talking about a group of substances.

所以我們其實在談論一組物質。

The technical term is PFAS, that stands for per- and polyfluoroalkaly substances—a bit of a mouthful.

專業術語是 PFAS，全名是全氟及多氟烷基物質——有點難唸。

Um, but effectively there's about 15,000 chemicals within this group, and

嗯，但實際上這個群組裡大約有 15,000 種化學物質，

that's growing because they're man-made, they're synthetic substances.

而且這個數字還在增加，因為它們是人造的、合成的物質。

But the reason they're called forever chemicals is because they have very strong bonds between their fluorine and carbon atoms, which means they're very, very difficult to break down in the environment.

但它們之所以被稱為永久性化學物質，是因為它們的氟原子和碳原子之間有非常強的鍵結，這表示它們在環境中非常非常難分解。

So that's why that term "forever chemicals" is often used interchangeably with PFAS.

所以這就是為什麼「永久性化學物質」這個詞經常和 PFAS 互換使用。

What sort of products are we talking about here when we mention forever chemicals?

當我們提到永久性化學物質時，我們說的是哪些產品呢？

I think it would be very hard to go through your everyday life without using a product that has PFAS in it in some way.

我想在日常生活中很難不接觸到某種含有 PFAS 的產品。

It is very hard to, uh, overstate the how much they are used, and

這真的非常難誇大它們的使用量，

that's because they have very useful properties.

這是因為它們有非常實用的特性。

So they are very stable, they're very resistant to heat, they don't break down easily, they've also got waterproof and oil properties.

所以它們非常穩定，耐高溫，不容易分解，而且還有防水和防油的特性。

So as you can imagine, they're very useful in a range of products, whether that be clothing—for example, many of you might be wearing a waterproof jacket today—whether that be used in frying pans.

所以你可以想像，它們在各種產品中都非常有用，無論是衣物——例如，你們今天可能很多人都穿著防水外套——還是用於煎鍋。

But they're also used in more bespoke reasons, so the aviation industry, they're used in gaskets, um, they're used in many other sort of more, I guess, engineering uses.

但它們也被用在更客製化的用途上，像是航空業，用於墊圈，嗯，還有許多其他更偏向工程上的用途。

But yeah, as I say, they're sort of used in almost all the products we use in everyday life, so they are found everywhere in the world, uh, in most homes.

但說真的，就像我說的，它們幾乎用在我們日常生活中所有產品裡，所以它們隨處可見，嗯，在大多數的家裡。

And Esme, I don't know about you, but I love my makeup, and

而且 Esme，我不知道妳怎麼樣，但我超愛我的化妝品，

然後我看到說它們也用在化妝品裡。

Yeah, this is one of the first things I looked into.

對，這是我一開始就去查的其中一件事。

It seems a bit strange to imagine this chemical within makeup, but

想像這種化學物質竟然會出現在化妝品裡，聽起來有點奇怪，

some of those properties that make them so useful for some of those other products I talk about also make them very useful for cosmetics.

但那些讓它們在其他產品裡那麼好用的特性，也讓它們在化妝品裡非常有用。

So for example, their waterproof properties mean they're often found within waterproof mascara, for example.

所以舉例來說，它們的防水特性意味著，像是防水睫毛膏裡常常會發現它們。

But also because they're oil resistant, they're often used also in foundations, concealers, because they make a barrier with our skin.

但因為它們也抗油，所以也常被用在粉底、遮瑕膏裡，因為它們會在我們皮膚上形成一層屏障。

So any oils we produce throughout the day don't interact with that makeup, and

這樣我們一整天產生的油脂就不會跟那些化妝品產生作用，

而且它們還能帶來非常乾淨的妝感。

If anyone wears makeup, they'll probably see those sort of slogans or descriptions of makeup, "flawless finish," and it creates this sort of smooth appearance on your skin.

如果有人化妝，可能會看到那些「無瑕妝感」的標語或說明，讓肌膚看起來光滑。

So for a long time they've been used by the industry, although many major makeup brands are trying to now move away from the use of these substances.

所以很長一段時間，業界一直在使用它們，儘管許多大型化妝品品牌現在正試圖擺脫這些物質的使用。

And "forever" is in the word, and forever sounds so scary.

而且「永久」就在這個詞裡，永久聽起來好可怕。

What are we talking about here when we say forever, just how long-lasting?

當我們說永久，到底是指多久呢？

I mean, we're sort of talking at least a few hundred years, maybe a thousand years, but

我的意思是，我們大概說至少幾百年，也許一千年，

PFAS substances were only sort of started developing in the early 1900s.

但 PFAS 物質大概是從 1900 年代初期才開始研發的。

And so we're going to see even those ones that were created over 100 years ago stick around for many more hundreds of years.

所以即使是那些 100 多年前就誕生的物質，我們也會看到它們再留存好幾百年。

那麼它們是怎麼進入我們體內的呢？

I try to think of it in three different ways.

我試著從三個不同的方式來思考。

So the first is very high concentrations entering our bodies, and

所以第一種是濃度非常高地進入我們體內，

we tend to see that happen where PFAS has been manufactured and has been released, whether accidentally or deliberately, into the local water system.

我們通常會在 PFAS 的製造地看到這種情況，不論是意外或刻意釋放到當地水系統。

And you can get that as part of a byproduct of producing the chemical.

而這可能是在生產化學物質時，作為副產品而產生。

The US has cases of this, and there's been a lot of civil litigation around that.

美國有這方面的案例，也是以產生了許多民事訴訟。

There's also a very big contamination site within Italy, and

在義大利也有一個非常大的汙染場址，

there was actually a criminal case brought last year over an Italian chemicals company for that.

而且去年針對一家義大利化學公司，確實有提起刑事訴訟。

So that's sort of, I guess, the highest concentrations where they're entering your water system, um, nearby to the manufacturer.

所以這大概是，我想，就是濃度最高，它們進入你水系統的地方，嗯，靠近製造商。

And then there's sort of a second group where you're using products quite prolifically that have these PFAS chemicals in it.

然後還有第二種情況，就是我們大量使用含有這些 PFAS 化學物質的產品。

And when I talk about that, I'm thinking of things like firefighting foam, for example, where they're sprayed a lot or used or tested.

我說到這個，想到像是消防保麗龍，例如，它們會被大量噴灑、使用或測試。

So for example, military grounds, airport sites, firefighting testing centers, they can enter the groundwater there as they're sort of sprayed everywhere and then they're sort of, um, washed away.

所以舉例來說，軍事基地、機場、消防測試中心，它們會進入當地的地下水，因為它們被噴得到處都是，然後就被沖走了。

And then there's a sort of third lower-level background contamination.

然後還有第三種，比較低程度的背景汙染。

So if you can imagine, if you're wearing makeup, for example, that contains these substances, get to them the day, um, hopefully wash it off, um, and

所以你可以想像，如果你有化妝品，例如，裡面含有這些物質，到了那天，嗯，希望把它洗掉，嗯，

then that goes down, uh, obviously the sink it enters our water system.

然後就進到，呃，很明顯是水槽，進入我們的水系統。

But the levels vary significantly, I would say.

但我會說，這些濃度差異很大。

I think it's important to point that out depending on where you live.

我想，指出這一點很重要，取決於你住在哪裡。

And Esme, I'm interested in the health impacts of these forever chemicals, so I wanted to bring in Stephanie.

而且 Esme，我對這些永久性化學物質的健康影響很感興趣，所以我想找 Stephanie 來。

Stephanie Metzger is from the Royal Society of Chemistry, which is a charity in the UK that publishes scientific information.

Stephanie Metzger 是英國皇家化學學會的，這是一個在英國出版科學資訊的慈善機構。

So Stephanie, first off, when these chemicals are in our bodies, what sort of issues can they cause?

所以 Stephanie，首先，當這些化學物質進入我們體內時，會造成什麼樣的問題？

The important thing to know about PFAS is that they are a diverse group of chemicals.

關於 PFAS 重要的是要了解，它們是一群種類繁多的化學物質。

So the count of how many PFAS could exist, um, is changing all the time.

所以 PFAS 可能存在的數量，嗯，一直在變化。

I've heard numbers anywhere from 10,000, 15,000, or even more potential kinds of PFAS.

我聽過的數字從一萬種、一萬五千種，甚至更多潛在的 PFAS 種類都有。

Um, but not every single one of them causes health problems.

嗯，但不是每一種都會造成健康問題。

Some are of lower toxicity, um, some have been proven to be extremely toxic to humans and to wildlife in the environment.

有些毒性較低，嗯，有些已被證明對人類和環境中的野生動物具有極高的毒性。

And there's a lot of PFAS that we just don't know—actually the majority—we just don't know how they affect us.

還有很多 PFAS，我們根本不知道——實際上是大多數——我們根本不知道它們會如何影響我們。

But for the ones that we have good research on, this research has shown that when PFAS—when these PFAS get into our bodies—they can interfere with our different biological systems.

但對於我們有深入研究的那些，研究顯示當 PFAS—當這些 PFAS 進入我們體內時—它們會干擾我們不同的生物系統。

So for example, they can cause issues with our thyroid, they can cause liver and kidney problems, uh, potentially fertility issues, testicular cancer, um, high cholesterol, potentially lowered, uh, immune response.

所以舉例來說，它們會造成甲狀腺問題，會造成肝臟和腎臟問題，呃，可能還有生育問題、睪丸癌，嗯，高膽固醇，可能還有免疫反應降低。

So for example, if we were to get a vaccine, it may be less effective.

所以舉例來說，如果我們去打疫苗，效果可能會比較差。

It sounds like there's a bit of a spectrum of how harmful they can be, is that right?

聽起來它們的危害程度有個範圍，對嗎？

And what about when they're in our system then?

那當這些化學物質進入我們的身體後呢？

Is there any way of getting these forever chemicals out?

有沒有辦法把這些永久性化學物質排出體外？

So over time we do flush them out of our bodies.

所以隨著時間，我們的身體會把它們排出。

Essentially, naturally our bodies do get rid of them.

基本上，我們的身體會自然地清除它們。

Um, the problem is is that it can take a long time and that we often are taking in more than we are than our bodies are naturally getting rid of.

嗯，問題是這可能需要很長的時間，而且我們攝取的量常常比身體自然排出的量還要多。

Um, and that means that over time they're accumulating a little bit more and a little bit more.

嗯，這意味著隨著時間，它們會一點一點地累積。

We're ending up with a higher burden over time because our bodies can't keep up, essentially, with the rate that they're coming in.

因為我們的身體基本上跟不上它們進入身體的速度，所以隨著時間，我們體內的負擔會越來越重。

In areas where we know people have been highly exposed, there has been some work to figure out how we might be able to treat them.

在我們知道人們曾高度暴露的地區，已經有一些研究在試圖找出我們如何能治療他們。

Um, so for example, on the island of Jersey, there have—there is actually a health panel at the moment, um, working with the government of Jersey to work on some, some treatment options for some people on that island who have been highly exposed.

嗯，所以舉例來說，在澤西島，目前有一個健康小組，正與澤西島政府合作，為島上一些曾高度暴露的人們研究一些治療選項。

And that includes things like drugs that, um, target cholesterol.

而且這也包含像是，嗯，針對膽固醇的藥物。

As I mentioned, some PFAS can cause high cholesterol, and

正如我剛才提到的，有些 PFAS 會導致高膽固醇，

so there is, um, the potential that some drugs that, that work on lowering cholesterol may also be able to, um, address the underlying PFAS that's in our—in our body.

所以有可能，一些用於降低膽固醇的藥物，也能夠，嗯，處理我們體內潛在的 PFAS。

They have also suggested if that doesn't work that they may recommend that some of those people, um, give blood—so blood let—um, which could help to remove, again, some of that PFAS from our blood.

他們也建議，如果這方法無效，可能會建議其中一些人，嗯，捐血—也就是血液交換—嗯，這或許能幫助再次清除我們血液中的一些 PFAS。

Um, there are—there is other research going on as well.

嗯，同時也有其他研究在進行。

For example, I know there's a, a team at Cambridge University that's been working on some, um, research on our gut microbiome and potentially some probiotics that might help us to process PFAS better.

例如，我知道劍橋大學有一個團隊，他們一直在研究我們的腸道菌群，以及可能有些益生菌可以幫助我們更好地處理 PFAS。

嗯，這都還在非常早期的階段。

Yeah, it's really good to hear about some of the solutions people are working on as well.

對，很高興聽到大家也在努力尋找一些解決方案。

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體內永遠存在的化學物質——《世界萬象》Podcast，BBC World Service (The forever chemicals that end up in our bodies - What in the World podcast, BBC World Service)

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