Name: 突發新聞：泰德·克魯茲與證人就明尼蘇達州欺詐案激烈交鋒！ (BREAKING NEWS: Ted Cruz Has Fiery Clash With Witness Over Minnesota Fraud)
Uploaded: 2026-02-16T21:45:52.000Z
Duration: 9 min 33 s

And I hope your opening statements were truthful.

我希望你們的開場陳述是真實的。

I should have done that before, before your opening statements, but

我本來應該在你們開場陳述之前就這麼做的，但是

I guess we'll have to take your word for it.

Representative Robbins, let's, let's start with you.

羅賓斯代表，我們，我們先從你開始。

How broad was the fraud that was perpetrated in Minnesota?

在明尼蘇達州發生的詐騙有多廣泛？

We are still getting a handle on it, but it's all of the, not all, but

我們還在掌握情況，但這涵蓋了所有，不是所有，而是

a huge segment of the child care programs, autism services, sober homes, emergency transportation of 14 areas of Medicaid fraud, SNAP benefits.

兒童照護計畫、自閉症服務、戒癮之家、緊急交通運輸等領域的很大一部分，以及醫療補助、SNAP 福利的 14 個詐騙領域。

We are still, I would say, getting whistleblower reports, uncovering new vectors of fraud.

我想說，我們還在收到吹哨者的報告，發現新的詐騙手法。

We just discovered the adult day services and the assisted living.

我們才剛發現成人日間照護服務和輔助生活。

Those haven't been counted in the total so far.

這些都還沒算進目前的總數裡。

So I believe it's much broader than we currently know and we will continue to expose it.

所以我相信情況比我們現在知道的還要廣泛，我們會繼續揭露。

Is there any chance the elected Democrats in charge of the state were unaware of the fraud?

負責這個州的選出的民主黨人有可能不知道這些詐騙嗎？

There have been credible whistleblower allegations, press reports and Office of Legislative Auditor reports for many years.

多年來一直有可信的吹哨者指控、新聞報導和立法審計辦公室的報告。

Hoch, I want to thank you for your citizen journalism and your hard work pressing for accountability here.

我想感謝你的公民新聞報導，以及你為追究責任所做的努力。

I will say I watched the video that you did with rapt attention.

我必須說，我全神貫注地看了你製作的影片。

It was also, by the way, an indictment of all of the so called journalists on the national level because none of them could be bothered to actually go and investigate.

另外，順帶一提，這也是對所有國家層級的所謂記者的一種控訴，因為他們根本沒人有空去實際調查。

I want to ask you the same questions I asked Representative Robbins.

我想問你跟眾議員羅賓斯一樣的問題。

Number one, how broad do you believe the evidence shows the fraud in Minnesota was?

第一，你認為證據顯示明尼蘇達州的詐騙有多廣泛？

When you take everything into account, you've got all of these NGOs, you've got nonprofits, you've got county money, you've got city money, you've got CCAP money, you've got another thing called great start.

當你把所有事情都考慮進去，你會有這麼多非政府組織、非營利組織、縣政府的錢、市政府的錢、CCAP 資金，還有一個叫做 Great Start 的東西。

So there are all these piles of money that factor into the fraud.

所以有這麼多錢都牽涉到詐騙裡面。

I don't know that anybody can ever determine an exact number.

我不知道有沒有人能確定一個確切的數字。

But I kept telling the US Attorney when he came out, he said, you got to get your number up.

但我一直告訴那位美國聯邦檢察官，當他出來時，他說，你得把你的數字提高。

He kept ratcheting up the number, ratcheting up the number.

他不斷地提高數字，不斷地提高數字。

And I kept saying, you got to be at least at $30 billion.

我一直說，你至少得達到三百億美元。

So going back to whether Governor Walz knew about it, Governor Walz admitted knowing about the fraud early in his first term, which would say 2020.

所以回到州長瓦爾茲是否知情的問題，州長瓦爾茲承認在他第一個任期內就已經知道這起詐騙案了，那大約是2020年。

Well, Minnesota statute 3.971 subdivision 9 clearly says that if you are made aware of fraud in a state agency, you are obligated to immediately report that fraud to the Office of the Legislative Auditor Immediately.

嗯，明尼蘇達州法規 3.971 分部 9 明確規定，如果你得知州政府機構有詐騙行為，你有義務立即向立法審計辦公室舉報該詐騙案。

The legislative auditor is then the body that determines which law enforcement agency to bring into the investigation.

立法審計辦公室隨後將決定將哪個執法機構納入調查。

Governor Wallace did not contact the Office of Legislative Order.

瓦爾茲州長沒有聯繫立法審計辦公室。

How many organizations receiving taxpayer funds did you visit in total?

您總共拜訪了多少個接受納稅人資金的組織？

How many organizations or ostensible organizations, companies?

多少組織或聲稱的組織、公司？

Of the child care centers you visited, how many kids did you see?

您拜訪的託兒中心裡，您看到了多少小孩？

The only place that I saw children was at Kindercare and New Horizons, which are, in my opinion, legitimate.

我看到小孩的唯一地方是 Kindercare 和 New Horizons，在我看來，它們是合法的。

They're large scale, they have play areas and they also receive CCAP money.

它們規模很大，有遊樂區，而且它們也收到 CCAP 資金。

But they're the only places that I saw where there were children present ever at any of them.

但它們是我唯一看到有小孩出現的地方。

There were never any there when I was there.

我在那裡的時候，那裡從來都沒有。

Weissman, you're co president, a public citizen which describes itself as a consumer advocate and a pro democracy organization.

Weissman，您是共同主席，一位公眾公民，自稱是消費者權益倡導者和支持民主的組織。

Would you agree that the fraud in Minnesota was staggering and shocking?

您同意明尼蘇達州的詐欺行為是驚人的、令人震驚的嗎？

I agree that there is fraud in Minnesota.

我同意明尼蘇達州確實存在詐欺行為。

I don't believe these estimates are grounded in any evidence that I've seen.

我不認為這些估計有任何我見過的證據支持。

The $9 billion figure was based on a claim just that.

那九十億的數字就只是基於一個這樣的說法。

Well, I think that half of them must be fraudulent.

嗯，我認為其中一半肯定是詐欺。

I just heard a comment just saying boost the number up.

我剛剛聽到有人說把數字提高。

But to be clear, and with respect, you missed my testimony.

但說清楚點，而且恕我直言，您錯過了我的證詞。

沒錯，明尼蘇達州確實有詐欺。

And absolutely I share your righteous anger about whatever degree of fraud there was there.

而且我絕對同意您對那裡存在的任何程度的詐欺感到義憤填膺。

Do you agree that any Democrat politician, or let me be clear, any Republican politician that had knowledge of the fraud and was complicit should be prosecuted?

您是否同意任何民主黨政客，或者說清楚點，任何知情並參與詐欺的共和黨政客都應該被起訴？

I'm not sure what they're being prosecuted for, but

我不確定他們會因為什麼被起訴，但

also in my testimony, I described also outside of Minnesota, the manifold ways that this administration is enabling fraud.

在我的證詞中，我也描述了明尼蘇達州以外，這個政府在詐欺方面的各種縱容方式。

Sir, I'm going to ask a question and then you can answer it.

先生，我會問一個問題，然後您再回答。

Your organization describes itself as a pro democracy organization.

您的組織自稱是個支持民主的組織。

I'm going to try to find out if you actually are pro democracy or if you're simply pro Democrat and are a partisan.

我想弄清楚你們是真的支持民主，還是隻是支持民主黨的黨派。

We've seen the Democrats who want to change the topic.

我們看過那些想轉移話題的民主黨人。

So I get you want to testify how much you hate Donald Trump, but

所以我知道你想作證你多討厭唐納·川普，但是

I'm quite certain Donald Trump was not running a fraudulent daycare center or a fraudulent autism center in Minnesota.

我很確定唐納·川普在明尼蘇達州沒有經營詐騙的日間託兒中心或詐騙的自閉症中心。

So all of the talking points about how you dislike Trump, set them aside.

所以關於你多討厭川普的那些說詞，就先放一邊吧。

We will see the Democrats on this committee go down those talking points.

我們將看到這個委員會裡的民主黨人照著那些說詞講。

Do you believe elected politicians in Minnesota who were aware of this fraud and were complicit in it should be prosecuted?

你認為明尼蘇達州那些知道這起詐騙案並參與其中的民選官員，應該被起訴嗎？

There absolutely should be accountability.

It is not normal to prosecute government officials for not prosecuting fraud.

因為沒有起訴詐騙案而起訴政府官員，這很不尋常。

That you've advocated or that anyone else has advocated in the Senate.

你或參議院裡的任何人主張過的。

所以你認為這樣完全沒問題嗎？

If, let's say Governor Waltz or Attorney General Ellison knew about the fraud, benefited from the fraud in terms of bundling votes, benefited from the frauds in terms of collecting campaign finance violations and deliberately looked the other way.

假設瓦爾茲州長或總檢察長艾里森知道這起詐騙案，並透過綁樁選票、透過收集競選財務違規來從詐騙案中獲利，而且故意視而不見。

But also, if you'll permit me, that hypothetical is, in fact, happening throughout.

不過，如果你允許我說，那個假設的情況，實際上正在各處發生。

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突發新聞：泰德·克魯茲與證人就明尼蘇達州欺詐案激烈交鋒！ (BREAKING NEWS: Ted Cruz Has Fiery Clash With Witness Over Minnesota Fraud)

opportunity

evidence

determine

deliberately