Name: 只要15分鐘… 讓你告別25年以上孤單、憂鬱、迷失！ | Gabor Maté 醫師 (Give Me 15 Minutes... I'll Save You 25+ Years Of Feeling Lonely, Depressed & Lost | Dr. Gabor Maté)
Uploaded: 2026-02-06T14:38:15.000Z
Duration: 15 min 53 s

情態助動詞 A2

How can somebody escape the victim mindset?

過去進行式

Well, so if I was talking to a person like that, I would say, first of all, I get it, because I've been to that place myself.

嗯，所以如果我跟那樣的人說話，我會說，首先，我懂，因為我自己也經歷過。

動名詞

I mean, I've had moments when I didn't think life was worth living and I imagined my own suicide.

我的意思是，我曾有過覺得人生不值得活下去，甚至幻想過自己自殺的時刻。

Never that I planned it or I was going to do it, but I kind of fantasized it.

我從來沒有計畫過，或真的打算這麼做，但我有點幻想過。

You know, I've been to those places, so I get it.

你知道，我經歷過那些，所以我懂。

Secondly, I would say I feel that the world's against me.

其次，我會說我感覺全世界都在跟我作對。

那不是一種感覺，而是一種信念。

If you have that belief, it's because at some point you had that experience, but

如果你有那樣的信念，是因為你曾經有過那樣的經歷，但

you're not having that experience right now.

That experience was that of a child who was helpless and alone.

那種經歷是一個無助又孤單的小孩的經歷。

So what's showing up in your belief system is not your present situation, but your childhood emotional experience.

所以你信念系統裡呈現的，不是你現在的狀況，而是你的童年情感經歷。

And like I said before, in the present we can heal.

而且就像我之前說的，在現在，我們可以療癒。

No matter what happened then we can heal in the present.

不管當時發生了什麼，我們現在都能療癒。

So the first thing I would ask a person like that is, are you willing to consider that healing is possible for you, or have you totally given up?

所以我會問那樣的人的第一個問題是，你願不願意考慮療癒對你來說是可能的，還是你已經完全絕望了？

By the way, a person who's totally given up wouldn't be telling you this, because when people talk this way, whether they know it or not, they're asking for help.

順帶一提，一個完全絕望的人不會跟你說這些，因為當人們這樣說話時，不管他們知不知道，他們都在求助。

If they weren't asking for help, they wouldn't say anything.

如果他們沒有求助，他們什麼都不會說。

They just think off of their own and isolate themselves.

他們只會自己想辦法然後孤立自己。

So anybody who speaks the way that you just cited is already, whether they know it or not, they're looking for help.

所以任何像你剛才說的那樣說話的人，不管他們知不知道，他們都已經在尋求幫助了。

And if that's the case, then they can be helped.

如果是這樣，他們就能被幫助。

And so that's the second point is don't try and solve this on your own.

所以第二點是，不要試著自己解決。

We're creatures that evolved in connection and community.

我們是演化出連結和社群的生物。

It may feel like you're alone and you certainly might feel lonely, but you're not, in fact, alone.

你可能會覺得孤單，也確實可能感到孤獨，但你不是孤單的。

數百萬人有著完全相同的感受。

And they're not crazy and you're not crazy.

Those beliefs and feelings are normal responses to abnormal circumstances.

那些信念和感受是對不正常情況的正常反應。

So that's how it began, working with the people, with a person with that mindset.

所以，這就是開始的方式，與有這種心態的人一起工作。

And I guess to take this one step further, you know, I've heard you talk about like that.

而且我猜，更進一步來說，我聽過你談論過這類事情。

One of the main problems with society today is that a lot of people who have mental health struggles and they're struggling with situations like this where they feel stuck and they can't get out of their own way, at times they feel like people are against them.

當今社會的主要問題之一是，很多人有心理健康困擾，他們正努力應對這種感覺被困住、無法擺脫困境的情況，有時候他們覺得別人都在跟他們作對。

And then they, you know, they might go see somebody who's not trained in trauma.

然後，你知道，他們可能會去看一個沒有創傷訓練的人。

Like how can somebody begin to take that path and make sure that they're finding somebody that is trained in that and then also that they're able to self regulate themselves when needed.

例如，一個人要如何開始走上這條路，並確保他們找到受過相關訓練的人，同時也能在需要時自我調節？

Well, that's a huge question because unfortunately, look, I've been through medical training.

嗯，這是一個大哉問，因為很不幸，你看，我接受過醫學訓練。

And the average physician never hears any of the stuff I just talked about.

而一般的醫生從來沒聽過我剛才說的這些。

The average psychiatrist doesn't get any training in trauma.

一般的精神科醫生也沒有接受過任何創傷訓練。

They learn something about ptsd, which is a specific form of trauma, but

他們會學到一些關於創傷後壓力症候群（PTSD）的知識，這是一種特定的創傷，但是

they don't learn about the traumatic basis of depression and anxiety and adhd.

他們不會學到關於憂鬱症、焦慮症和注意力不足過動症（ADHD）的創傷根源。

So that it's very difficult to find good help within the medical system.

所以要在醫療體系內找到好的協助非常困難。

Now, many therapists also don't get any such training.

現在，很多治療師也沒有接受過這方面的訓練。

There's a lot of therapists that are designed only to change your beliefs and your behaviors, but

有很多治療師的設計只是為了改變你的信念和行為，但

not to address the fundamental reasons for those behaviors.

並沒有處理這些行為的根本原因。

So a lot of psychologists trained in cbt, cognitive behavioral therapy or dialectical behavioral therapy, a lot of them are not really, and

所以很多受過認知行為療法（CBT）或辯證行為療法（DBT）訓練的心理學家，他們中的許多人並沒有真正地，而且

我知道這件事，相信我，我知道。

They just don't know much about or anything about trauma.

他們對創傷瞭解不多，或者根本不瞭解。

Then they can't help you with the fundamental wound that you're carrying.

然後他們就無法幫助你處理你內心深處的創傷。

They can help you with the manifestations and that's not useless.

他們可以幫助你處理外在的表現，這也不是沒用。

But they can't help you heal at your core.

但他們無法幫助你從根本上療癒。

So then there are therapies that are deeper than that.

所以，就出現了比那更深入的療法。

There is body based therapies such as somatic experiencing, developed by my friend and teacher, Dr. Peter Levine.

有像創傷釋放療法（Somatic Experiencing）這樣的身體療法，這是由我的朋友兼老師 Peter Levine 博士所發展的。

There's sensory motor psychotherapy, developed by Pact Ogden.

有 Sensory Motor Psychotherapy，這是由 Pact Ogden 所發展的。

有 EMDR，對某些人來說是有效的。

There's internal family systems or IFS, developed by my friend and colleague Dr. Richard Schwartz.

有內部家庭系統（Internal Family Systems）或 IFS，這是由我的朋友兼同事 Richard Schwartz 博士所發展的。

There's compassionate inquiry, which is based on my work.

有 Compassionate Inquiry，這是基於我的工作發展出來的。

我也有在訓練治療師使用這個方法。

There are others, other names I could mention.

還有其他的，我也可以提到其他的名稱。

There's Larry Heller, Lawrence Heller and his work and his students.

有 Larry Heller，Lawrence Heller 和他的學生們。

So what you have to look for is somebody who's trauma informed and is willing to work with you not just on your behaviors, but

所以你要找的是一個有創傷訓練背景，並且願意跟你一起工作的人，不只是處理你的行為，

on your core wounds of which the behaviors are symptoms.

而是處理你核心的創傷，行為只是這些創傷的症狀。

Because like, in my own experience, I mean, I've struggled off and on with my mental health over the years.

因為，以我自己的經驗來說，我這些年來斷斷續續都有心理健康困擾。

I mean, I told you a bit about my story in our last conversation and you know, when I would go, there wasn't like a lot of talk about my childhood.

我上次跟你聊的時候有稍微講過我的故事，你知道的，當我去求助時，並不會有很多關於我童年的討論。

There was, it was just like, all right, you're having some anxiety.

他們只會說，好吧，你有點焦慮。

I would just think, okay, this is going to cure my anxiety.

我就會想，好吧，這會治好我的焦慮。

And then I would realize, like, it's not really.

然後我就會發現，嗯，其實不是。

I'm still struggling, like, what's going on with this?

我還是在掙扎，想說，這到底怎麼了？

And it wasn't until I understood, like, my past and my trauma and how that was all related to what I was experiencing in the present that things were able to change.

直到我理解了，我的過去和我的創傷，以及它們如何與我現在的經歷有關，事情才開始有了轉變。

And so let's just say that somebody has now they found somebody they're comfortable with that's helping them heal their trauma and change their present and their current behaviors and patterns and that sort of thing.

所以，假設有人現在找到了讓他們感到自在、能幫助他們療癒創傷、改變現在行為模式和習慣的人。

And then they go down, weeks down the road, months down the road, and

they're on the up and up, but get triggered.

他們正在好轉，但卻被觸發了。

Or they experience a situation where they're like, oh, my gosh, like, I thought I was getting better.

或是他們遇到一個情況，心裡會想：「天啊，我以為我已經在好轉了。」

What's your advice to people who are dealing with triggers when they're on the road to recovery from trauma?

對於那些在創傷療癒路上，卻遇到觸發點的人，妳有什麼建議呢？

Well, there's two ways to ask that question that you just raised.

嗯，妳剛剛提出的問題，其實有兩種問法。

No, when you say, why is this coming up like that, that's not a question, it's a statement.

不，當妳說「為什麼這些又跑出來了」的時候，那不是一個問題，而是一個陳述。

It's a statement that says, this shouldn't be happening to me.

這是一個陳述，意思是「這種事不應該發生在我身上」。

Now, you ain't gonna learn anything that way, but

if you actually ask it, hmm, I wonder why this is coming up.

如果妳真的問「嗯，我很好奇為什麼這些又跑出來了」，

If I came to you and said, why are you doing this?

如果我來問妳說，妳為什麼要這樣做？

I would probably get defensive, and I would just feel, like, a little ashamed.

我可能會變得很有防備心，而且會覺得有點羞愧。

But what if I said, hmm, I wonder why you're doing this?

但如果我說「嗯，我很好奇妳為什麼要這樣做？」呢？

It would force me to think a little bit and practice the pause and say, well, I don't know if it would force you, but

這會迫使我稍微思考一下，練習暫停，然後說，嗯，我不知道這會不會迫使妳，但是