Name: 白宮高層傳不滿！聯準會主席調查惹議 (Top Trump aide ‘unhappy’ with fed chair investigation)
Uploaded: 2026-01-13T17:15:45.000Z
Duration: 8 min 26 s

情態副詞

And Kristen, you know, just extraordinary amid so many extraordinary events that are happening, both large and seemingly small, what are you hearing about Scott Besant, the Treasury secretary, and

Kristen，你知道，在這麼多正在發生的重大和看似微小事件中，你聽到了什麼關於財政部長 Scott Besant 的消息，

how unhappy he is about what Trump's doing here?

以及他對川普總統在這裡所做的事情有多不滿？

And just to touch on your point, I will get to Scott Bessant in one second.

針對你剛才提到的點，我一秒後會講到 Scott Bessant。

But touch your point on the extraordinary here.

While it is a stunning development, it is not all that surprising.

雖然這是個令人震驚的發展，但其實也沒那麼令人意外。

This seems to have been in the works for quite some time.

這件事似乎已經醞釀了一段時間。

If you look back in July, we saw Russ Vote, the head of Office of Management and Budget, essentially writing an open letter to Powell accusing him of lying to Congress.

如果你回顧七月，我們看到行政管理和預算局局長 Russ Vote 寫了一封公開信給鮑威爾，指控他對國會說謊。

We also saw President Trump instilling a number of his loyalists on the National Planning Committee.

我們也看到川普總統安插了不少他的忠誠份子進入國家規劃委員會。

That has since helped when it comes to the ballroom.

這件事後來在舞會上有所幫助。

But initially that was in part to look into this matter, to look into what was going on with the Federal Reserve building and to ask a lot of pointed and public questions which seem to be leaning towards some kind of criminal investigation.

但最初這部分是為了調查此事，調查聯邦準備理事會大樓發生的事，並提出許多尖銳且公開的問題，這些問題似乎都指向某種刑事調查。

Now, Carolyn Levitt has said, said that President Trump at no time directed the Department of Justice to open this investigation.

現在，Carolyn Levitt 表示，川普總統從未訓示司法部展開這項調查。

But President Trump has made his feelings on Powell incredibly clear.

但川普總統對鮑威爾的感受已經說得非常清楚了。

Now, when it comes to Scott Bessant, this itself is not that surprising.

現在，說到 Scott Bessant，這件事本身並不令人意外。

Scott Bessant is part of the reason that President Trump had been backing down from that language about actually firing Powell.

Scott Bessant 是川普總統從原本說要開除鮑威爾的言論退縮的部分原因。

Yes, he was continuing to over and over again berate Powell, insult him, but

是的，他不斷地、一再地責罵鮑威爾，侮辱他，但是

he kind of stepped back from that firing talk.

他有點退縮了關於開除的說法。

And that's because Bessant had been in his ear, essentially telling him it is bad not only for US Markets, for the global economy, if you do fire Powell, even the threats of firing Powell are impacting the markets.

那是因為 Bessant 一直在他耳邊，基本上告訴他，如果你開除鮑威爾，不僅對美國市場、對全球經濟都不好，即使是開除鮑威爾的威脅，都在影響市場。

And Besson, I'm told, views the markets as his primary job.

而且聽說 Bessant 認為市場是他的首要工作。

Now, of course, if you look at the markets today, it doesn't seem as though they were that affected by this investigation.

當然，看看今天的市場，似乎並沒有受到這次調查太大的影響。

But I am told that Besson was talking to people close to him, saying he was frustrated by this and by the idea of it potentially having a larger global impact.

不過聽說 Bessant 曾跟身邊的人說，他對這件事感到沮喪，也對這件事可能造成的更大全球影響感到無奈。

Now, I will also tell you that I talked to a number of aides close to President Trump, as well as allies who say they swear that this is not political.

我還要告訴大家，我跟川普總統身邊的一些助手，以及盟友聊過，他們發誓這不是政治操作。

They believe that there should be some more investigation into this building, into the renovation and into the budget.

他們認為應該對這棟建築、對翻修和預算進行更多調查。

But of course, again, President Trump has made it clear how he feels about Jerome Powell in this position.

但當然，川普總統已經清楚表達了他對 Jerome Powell 這個職位的看法。

There are more Republicans voicing their opposition to a criminal probe against Fed Chair Jerome Powell, including the president's own treasury secretary, a source tells CNN Secretary Scott Bessant has told people he is unhappy with the criminal investigation opened by the Department of Justice into Powell.

越來越多共和黨人公開反對對聯準會主席 Jerome Powell 進行刑事調查，包括總統的財政部長，消息人士告訴 CNN，財政部長 Scott Bessant 曾告訴身邊的人，他對司法部對 Powell 展開的刑事調查感到不滿。

That there are other Republicans who agree.

I don't, I don't like the idea of an investigation, a criminal investigation.

我不喜歡調查、刑事調查這個想法。

I support the independence of the, of the, of the Feds.

And I hope that this investigation wraps up very, very quickly.

I will be shocked if he has done anything wrong.

如果他有做錯什麼事，我會非常驚訝。

The Federal Reserve of the United States and the executive branch of the United get into a pissing contest.

美國聯邦準備理事會和行政部門之間，可別陷入惡鬥。

We need it like we need a hole in their head.

Because sometimes when like a source tells, I can't tell if it's because the person in the center of it wants everyone to know this without saying it out loud or if we really are hearing about some discontent.

因為有時候，當消息來源透露一些事情時，我搞不清楚是當事人想讓大家知道但又不說出口，還是我們真的聽到了某些不滿。

I think you've seen Treasury Secretary Scott Bessant be the one person in the cabinet that has registered some minuscule pushback.

我覺得你應該有注意到財政部長 Scott Bessant 是內閣中唯一一位表達一些微小反對意見的人。

Obviously we know that he was involved in the idea to pull back some of those tariffs after April because of some concerns about the bond market.

顯然我們知道，由於對債券市場的一些擔憂，他參與了在四月後撤銷部分關稅的提議。

Something that we know that President Trump follows closely.

這是我們知道川普總統密切關注的事情。

In other moments he has tried to push Trump perhaps in a different, maybe a little bit of a less direction, of course, because of not trying to spook the market and various things.

在其他時候，他試圖推動川普，也許是朝著一個不同的、稍微緩和的方向，當然，因為不想驚動市場和其他各種因素。

So I think that this is kind of well within the Treasury Secretary's lane.

所以我認為這完全在財政部長的職責範圍內。

Obviously he has been trying to plan a way to kind of usher Jay Powell out, bring him in, but

顯然他一直在試圖規劃一種方式來「迎接」鮑威爾，讓他進來，但

So I mean, the Wall Street Journal, they're calling President Trump would do himself and the country a big favor by firing those responsible for this fiasco.

所以我的意思是，《華爾街日報》說，川普總統如果開除那些對這場慘敗負責的人，將會對自己和國家大有益處。

他們稱之為一場自毀性的慘敗。

And you've got someone like Senator Tillis saying, well, I'm not going to vote on this other stuff you want approved.

然後你會有像參議員 Tillis 這樣的人說，好吧，我不會投票支持你們想通過的其他東西。

I mean there's just so many people saying this concern and it's not even Tillis.

我的意思是，有太多人表達了這種擔憂，而且不只是 Tillis。

I mean, I think you, all of those comments by other Republican senators as well was not as strong as what Senator Tillis said, but

我的意思是，我認為你，其他共和黨參議員的那些評論，雖然不像參議員 Tillis 說得那麼強硬，但是

We are on the countdown to four months for him not to be Fed chair anymore.

我們正在倒數四個月，他就不再是聯準會主席了。

And this is an unwanted distraction I just don't understand what happened.

而且這是一個不想要的幹擾，我真的不懂發生了什麼事。

Is it going to lead him to staying on as governor longer?

這會讓他更長久地留任州長嗎？

There was some ide that he would both step down as both.

And now people who know Jay Powell said that this is just going to incentivize him perhaps to stay even longer while the American people are sitting at home going, what does this have to do with anything being cheaper for me?

現在認識鮑威爾的人說，這只會鼓勵他或許待得更久，而美國人民卻在家裡想，這跟我有什麼關係，讓東西變便宜？

And what are we doing in D.C. when we're invading countries?

而且我們在華盛頓特區做了什麼，我們還在入侵國家？

Folks are getting shot in our streets and now we're going to go after the person in charge of the Fed?

人們在街上被槍擊，現在我們要去追究聯準會的主席？

Most folks don't even know what the Fed is arguing, that it's his monetary policy, it's his policy that is preventing them from affecting.

大多數人甚至不知道聯準會是什麼，爭論說，是他的貨幣政策，是他的政策阻止了他們產生影響。

But you just said he'll be gone in four months.

但你剛剛說他四個月後就會離開了。

This is a stupid move because he's going to be gone in four much if he'd have left it alone.

這是一個愚蠢的舉動，因為如果他什麼都不做，他四個月後就會離開。

I have a strange way here is Ben Shapiro, co founder of the Daily Wire.

我這裡有個奇怪的說法，他是 Daily Wire 的共同創辦人 Ben Shapiro。

Is there evidence that Powell was stealing money or embezzling?

有沒有證據顯示鮑威爾偷錢或挪用公款？

這裡的情況是什麼？換句話說。

And why is it that the Trump administration, the two people who he seems to be focused on very much at the Federal Reserve, are people who have opposed his agenda?

為什麼川普政府，他似乎非常關注聯準會的兩個人，卻是反對他議程的人？

You should not be targeting people based on specious investigations.

你不應該基於牽強的調查來針對人。

If it turns out that it's specious, the president should not be intervening in Federal Reserve policy in this way.

如果結果發現這些調查是牽強的，總統就不應該這樣幹預聯準會的政策。

All it does is create uncertainty in an economy that is doing quite well by all available reports.

這只會讓經濟產生不確定性，而根據所有報告，經濟表現相當不錯。

You've been catching up with lawmakers there.

你們跟那裡的國會議員們有聯繫。

There are a lot of questions from Republicans and Democrats alike, but

無論是共和黨還是民主黨，都有很多疑問，

even House and Senate Republicans, they are.

就連眾議院和參議院的共和黨人也是。

They want more answers about what exactly is happening here and are worried about the implications for the independence of the Federal Reserve if this goes on for too long.

他們想更清楚地瞭解這裡到底發生了什麼，並且擔心如果這樣持續太久，會影響聯邦準備理事會的獨立性。

In fact, one of the regular comments that I've been getting all afternoon from Republican senators in particular is that they want this done quickly.

事實上，我整個下午從共和黨參議員那裡聽到的常態性評論是，他們希望這件事能盡快處理。

They want this investigation done quickly.

他們希望這項調查能盡快完成。

They want to move on, and they're worried about the implications of political interference with this critical agency.

他們想繼續往前走，而且擔心政治幹預這個關鍵機構會帶來的影響。

That's a message that came from including one key senator, Senator Thom Tillis, who sits on the Senate Banking Committee, which would consider any nomination to replace Jerome Powell.

這是一個包括一位重要參議員在內的訊息，參議員 Thom Tillis，他隸屬於參議院銀行委員會，該委員會將審議任何接替鮑威爾的提名。

And he's warning he will vote against Powell's successor if this is not done and done quickly.

他警告說，如果這件事沒有完成，而且沒有盡快完成，他將投票反對鮑威爾的繼任者。

Do you think the White House is trying to stop the independence of the Fed?

你覺得白宮是在試圖阻止聯邦準備理事會的獨立性嗎？

Somebody at doj, I mean, the President said he wasn't in the mix.

司法部有人，我是說，總統說他沒有參與其中。

Another example of amateur hour, as far as I'm concerned.

在我認為，這是另一件業餘處理的例子。

What I'm going to do is drop any consideration for any board confirmation until it's done.

我要做的是，在調查完成之前，我將暫停考慮任何董事會的確認。

And Paul has been actually on the phone with some Republican senators in the last 24 hours or so.

Paul 在過去 24 小時左右，其實有跟一些共和黨參議員通過電話。

Senator Lisa Murkowski, who aligned herself with the concerns raised by Senator Thom Tillis, said that she had spoken with Powell.

Lisa Murkowski 參議員，她和 Thom Tillis 參議員提出的擔憂一致，她說她有跟鮑威爾談過。

Tillis also speaking with Powell and the Senate Majority Leader, John Thune, also said that he wants us done quickly.

Tillis 也跟鮑威爾談過，參議院多數黨領袖 John Thune 也說他希望我們盡快完成。