Name: Australian citizen with ISIS links blocked from returning to Australia | 7.30
Uploaded: 2026-02-18T23:02:14.000Z
Duration: 16 min 39 s

程度副詞

It's almost seven years since the families of ISIS fighters emerged from the wreckage of the group's so called caliphate.

ISIS 戰士的家屬從所謂的 caliphate 殘骸中出現，至今已將近七年了。

Exhausted, traumatised, some with terrible wounds.

他們身心俱疲，創傷嚴重，有些人還有可怕的傷口。

She's been shot and looks like a while ago.

她中槍了，看起來是有一段時間了。

Now the last of the Australian ISIS families are trying to get home.

現在，最後一批澳洲 ISIS 家屬正試圖回家。

On Monday, a group of 11 women and 23 children were allowed to leave a refugee camp in northern Syria that holds ISIS families.

週一，一群 11 名婦女和 23 名兒童獲準離開敘利亞北部一個收容 ISIS 家屬的難民營。

The they were turned around en route to the Lebanon border via Damascus.

然而，他們在前往黎巴嫩邊境、途經大馬士革的途中被攔了下來。

It's unclear why they were stopped, but authorities in Syria want all the foreign families gone.

雖然不清楚他們為何被攔下，但敘利亞當局希望所有外國籍家屬離開。

The Prime Minister says the government is not helping.

總理表示，政府不會提供協助。

No sympathy, frankly, for people who travelled overseas in order to participate in what was an attempt to establish a caliphate to undermine, destroy our way of life.

坦白說，對於那些為了建立一個 caliphate、破壞我們生活方式而前往海外的人，我一點同情心都沒有。

And so, as my mother would say, you make your bed, you lie in it.

就像我媽媽常說的，種什麼因，得什麼果。

But there has been help, clearly they provide assistance by providing them with a travel document, whether they're legally obliged to or not.

但顯然他們有提供協助，給了他們旅行文件，不管法律上是否義務。

It's a piece of information that shouldn't be extracted, like pulling a tooth.

這就像拔牙一樣，是不該被提取的資訊。

The government should just be up front with it and then deal with it.

政府應該坦白點，然後處理這件事。

Other ISIS family members already returned to Australia beginning in 2019.

其他 ISIS 家屬從 2019 年就開始陸續返回澳洲了。

It's not clear why they were allowed to leave while others remained, but

不清楚為何允許他們離開，而其他人卻留下，但

the government continues to say that based on security advice.

政府持續表示這是基於安全建議。

Perhaps the security advice they received was that these women were determined to be of low or far less risk than the women who remained detained.

也許他們收到的安全建議是，這些婦女被判定為低風險，或風險遠低於那些仍被拘留的婦女。

They may have done a deal with the government, who knows?

她們可能跟政府有什麼協議，誰知道呢？

Essentially, I suspect the Australian government has essentially been just responsive to what, whatever circumstances they are in, rather than actually trying to assist proactively.

基本上，我懷疑澳洲政府只是被動回應，而不是積極主動地提供協助。

The children clearly had no choice about living under isis.

小孩子顯然沒有選擇，只能生活在 ISIS 底下。

Some of the women have claimed they were coerced into travelling to Syria, but

有些婦女聲稱她們是被脅迫前往敘利亞，但是

they made a complex journey in 2014 and 2015 to live in areas controlled by extremists.

她們在 2014 年和 2015 年經歷了一段艱辛的旅程，前往極端份子控制的地區生活。

In some instances it might have been immaturity.

In other instances they knew exactly what they were doing.

另一些情況是她們清楚自己正在做什麼。

But in terms of just being tricked and reappearing in Islamic State held territory in Syria, that's a very difficult proposition to accept.

但要說她們只是被騙，然後出現在 ISIS 控制的敘利亞領土，這真的很難讓人相信。

The Australians may face charges when they return.

這些澳洲人回國時可能會面臨指控。

So far, just one woman has been prosecuted for travelling to Syria to live in ISIS controlled territory.

到目前為止，只有一名婦女因前往敘利亞居住在 ISIS 控制的地區而被起訴。

The granting of travel documents coincides with the closure of the main camp for ISIS families at Al Hol, with residents slowly being transferred to a new camp in Aleppo.

發放旅行證件的時機，正好是 Al Hol 主要 ISIS 家屬營地關閉的時候，營內居民正緩慢轉移到阿勒坡一個新營地。

It may be that because the refugee camps are being Closed.

這可能是因為難民營正在關閉。

These people are now forced to escape and that leads inevitably to the.

這些人現在被迫逃離，這不可避免地會導致。

The Australian families who got out of Syria in 2019 escaped with the help of the Morrison government and the acknowledgement that children shouldn't be condemned by the acts of their parents.

2019 年逃離敘利亞的澳洲家庭，是在莫里森政府的協助下逃脫的，政府也承認孩子不應該因為父母的行為而受到譴責。

They've got off to a horrible start in life as a result of the appalling decisions of their parents and they'll find their home in Australia and I'm sure they'll be embarrassed by Australians and, and

他們的人生開局非常糟糕，這是因為他們父母做出了駭人聽聞的決定，他們會在澳洲找到家，我相信澳洲人會接納他們，而且

as a result of that embrace, I'm sure they will live positive and happy lives.

由於這種接納，我相信他們會過上積極快樂的生活。

但隨著時間過去，這種接納消失了。

Unfortunate for the children, though, caught up on that, isn't it?

不幸的是，孩子們卻被捲入了其中，不是嗎？

It is, but we have a very firm view that we won't be providing assistance or repatriation.

At some stage, government is going to have to buy the bullet and say, listen, they are our problem.

We're going to integrate or reintegrate the children.

We are going to prosecute the women who we can prosecute because we have sufficient evidence to do that and then just do it.

This non policy is really a cop out and it's happened from both sides of the government.

Today the Home Affairs Minister, Tony Burke confirmed one member of the group has been blocked from returning, issuing a temporary exclusion order.

不過，我們有非常堅定的看法，我們不會提供協助或遣返。

The order made on the advice of security agencies, prevents them coming to Australia for up to two years.

政府總有一天得咬緊牙關，說「聽著，這是我們該處理的問題」。

The Home Affairs Minister, Tony Burt, joins me now.

我們要整合或重新整合這些孩子。

我們會起訴我們能起訴的這些女性，因為我們有足夠的證據，然後就這麼做。

這種不作為的政策根本是推卸責任，而且兩邊政府都這樣。

Now, that order that's been made, why was that decision made today?

好的，那項命令是怎麼下的？為什麼今天做出這個決定？

And so effectively, because the clock starts ticking on these sorts of exclusion orders, the work gets done by the department in advance.

所以實際上，因為這類排除命令的時效性，部門會提前完成工作。

But once reports start to come that somebody might be moving, that's the time that you initiate those sorts of orders.

但是一旦開始有報告指出有人可能要移動了，那時候你就會啟動這類命令。

So to be clear about that, it was the movement of that group, those people from the camp, the reports of the movement, and

所以說清楚一點，是因為那群人、那些從營地裡出來的人的移動，以及關於他們移動的報告，

You've known about the presence of those women in that camp, you've known about the worsening situation in the adjacent camp for some time.

你們早就知道那些婦女在那個營地裡，也知道鄰近營地不斷惡化的情況了。

Why does it take their actual movement to force you into action?

為什麼一定要等到她們實際移動了，你們才採取行動？

Why not have this in place weeks, months ago?

為什麼不是幾週、幾個月前就準備好？

Well, if we put an exclusion order in two years ago, for example, that time would now be up.

嗯，比方說，如果我們兩年前就發布了排除令，那麼現在時效就已經過了。

Because you have the beginning of the period where it might be relevant.

因為你們開始進入一個可能有關聯的時期。

Excluding somebody who is not in a position to come is an irrelevant document.

排除一個不可能來的人，這份文件就沒有意義了。

Excluding somebody who might be attempting to come to Australia is relevant.

排除一個可能試圖來澳洲的人，這份文件就有意義了。

And so you have the work already being done all the time.

所以你們一直都在進行相關工作。

As our intelligence, security and law enforcement agencies never stop collecting information.

就像我們的情報、國安和執法單位從未停止收集資訊一樣。

And then when you have the moment that it could be relevant, then you decide to take the action.

然後，當有相關的時機出現時，你就會決定採取行動。

What age is the person we're talking about?

I'm not going to give information that would identify the individual.

我不會提供會識別出個人身份的資訊。

The general information I can give you is this.

First of all, temporary exclusion orders cannot be given to somebody under 14.

首先，未滿14歲的人不能發布暫時排除令。

技術上來說，他們是可以使用的。

This individual is somebody who migrated to Australia under the Howard government, received citizenship under the Howard government and went to Syria under the Abbott government.

這個人是在霍華德政府時期移民到澳洲、取得公民權，然後在艾伯特政府時期去了敘利亞。

I won't go to further parts of identification.

The papers have been given to the individual's lawyers.

文件已經交給了這位人士的律師。

We made sure that nothing was made public until it was in possession of the lawyers.

我們確保在文件交給律師之前，沒有任何資訊被公開。

They may choose to make the case public, but that'll be up to them.

他們可以選擇公開這個案子，但那將由他們決定。

And has this person applied for a return permit to Australia after receiving that order?

在收到那個命令後，這個人有申請回澳洲的許可證嗎？

I'm glad you've raised that because a temporary exclusion order basically sets in place a two year period where you can apply for a permit and if you apply by law, a permit must be issued so effectively.

很高興你提出這個問題，因為暫時排除令基本上設定了一個兩年的期限，你可以在這段期間申請許可證，而且依法規定，只要申請就必須核發許可證。

But a permit can provide a 12 month delay.

不過，這個許可證可以讓你延遲十二個月。

So while it's called a two year temporary exclusion order, the, the practical impact if someone applies to come is that you can keep them out of Australia for a further 12 months.

所以，雖然這稱為兩年的暫時排除令，但如果有人申請入境，實際影響就是你可以再多阻止他們入境澳洲十二個月。

That allows more work to be done by your security, intelligence and law enforcement agencies.

這樣你的安全、情報和執法單位就能有更多時間處理。

It increases the capacity if there is to be law enforcement action on their arrival for the best possible case to be put together as well.

這也增加了在他們抵達時，如果需要採取執法行動，能將案件處理得最好的可能性。

Now, just to clear up the relationship between this decision and the movement of those women and children to try to get to Lebanon, obviously they were turned around and sent back to the camp.

現在，為了釐清這個決定和那些婦女兒童試圖前往黎巴嫩之間的關聯，顯然他們被攔了下來並送回營區。

It's reported that they were carrying Australian travel documents or passports, is that correct?

有報導指出他們持有澳洲旅行證件或護照，這是正確的嗎？

I've seen those reports and the reality is anyone who's a citizen is able to apply for a passport and receive a passport in the same way.

我看到了那些報導，事實上，任何公民都可以像其他人一樣申請並取得護照。

You must know by the time you've come onto this program tonight whether they did or did not have.

今晚你上這個節目之前，你一定知道他們有沒有。