Name: 川普澤倫斯基會談：領土讓步問題毫無突破！| DW 新聞 (Trump-Zelenskyy talks: No breakthrough on questions of territorial concessions | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-29T17:00:04.000Z
Duration: 11 min 37 s

Ukraine's Vladimir Zelensky and US President Donald Trump have both praised the progress made at peace talks at Trump's Mar a Lago home in Florida.

烏克蘭的澤倫斯基和美國總統川普都稱讚在川普位於佛羅裡達的 Mar a Lago 住處舉行的和平會談取得了進展。

While both struck an optimistic tone, Trump said some key issues, including security guarantees and territory issues, remain.

雖然兩人都抱持樂觀態度，但川普表示，包括安全保障和領土問題在內的一些棘手問題仍然存在。

Prior to the meeting, the American president had what he called a productive telephone call with Russia's Vladimir Putin.

在這次會面之前，美國總統與俄羅斯的普丁進行了一次他稱之為富有成效的電話會議。

DW's correspondent Misha Komodowski was in Mar a Lago and he sent us this summary.

DW 的記者 Misha Komodowski 在 Mar a Lago 現場，並為我們發來了這份總結。

The Trump Zelensky meeting here at Mar a Lago hasn't brought any breakthrough.

川普和澤倫斯基在 Mar a Lago 的這次會面並沒有帶來任何突破。

But how close are we to an actual peace in Ukraine after it?

但在此之後，我們離烏克蘭的實際和平還有多近？

不是百分之百，而是百分之九十或九十五。

Well, I think we're, look, you know, you can say 95%, but I don't like to say percentages.

嗯，我認為我們，你看，你知道，你可以說百分之九十五，但我不太喜歡說百分比。

我們非常、我們可能非常接近了。

There are one or two very thorny issues, very tough issues issues, but

有一兩個非常棘手的問題，非常艱難的問題，但

We've made a lot of progress today, but really we've made it over the last month.

我們今天取得了很大的進展，但實際上是過去一個月來的進展。

The thorniest issue here is the land you're talking about.

這裡最棘手的問題就是你說的土地。

Some of that land is maybe up for grabs, but

其中一些土地可能還在爭奪中，但

it may be taken over the next period of a number of months.

在接下來的幾個月裡，可能會被佔領。

This is the Donbass President Trump is talking about.

Vladimir Putin is demanding that Ukraine pulls all of its troops out of its own region.

普丁要求烏克蘭將其所有部隊撤出自己的地區。

President Zelenskyy says only the Ukrainian people can decide that through a national referendum.

澤倫斯基總統表示，只有烏克蘭人民能透過全國公投來決定。

Of course, our society has to choose and has to vote because it's their land, the land not of one person.

當然，我們的社會必須做出選擇並投票，因為那是他們自己的土地，不是一個人的土地。

President Trump then offered unusually generous praise for President Zelenskyy.

川普總統隨後對澤倫斯基總統給予了異常慷慨的讚揚。

Let me tell you, they have been very brave.

They fought very hard and continue to fight very hard.

他們奮勇作戰，並持續奮勇作戰。

It sounds a little strange, but I was explaining to the president, but

聽起來有點奇怪，但我當時正在向總統解釋，但是

the recent Russian attacks on civilians in Ukraine suggest otherwise.

俄羅斯最近對烏克蘭平民的攻擊卻顯示出另一種情況。

Now, President Trump is expected to host President Zelensky again with European leaders at the White House between January 12th and 18th.

現在，川普總統預計會在 1 月 12 日到 18 日之間，與歐洲領袖們在白宮再次接待澤倫斯基總統。

According to our sources, he gives it a few weeks to finalize the peace agreement.

根據我們的消息來源，他給幾週的時間來敲定和平協議。

Well, for more, I'm joined now by Ivana Stradner.

嗯，想了解更多，現在加入我們的是 Ivana Stradner。

She is a Russia analyst at the foundation for Defense of Democracy Democracies and joins me from Los Angeles.

她是「國防民主基金會」的俄羅斯分析師，從洛杉磯加入我們。

Ivana, there's a lot of Talk about progress in Mar a Lago.

Ivana，有很多關於 Mar a Lago 進展的討論。

Do you think it's realistic that 90% of a peace agreement has already been negotiated?

你覺得 90% 的和平協議已經談判好的說法是現實的嗎？

Well, it could be negotiated, even 100% in the end of a day.

嗯，一天下來，就算談判到 100% 也是有可能的。

It doesn't matter if Russia declines any offer.

俄羅斯拒絕任何提議也無所謂。

And if history is any indication, as someone who has been following negotiations for months, I doubt that Putin would easily say yes to that.

而且，如果歷史有任何啟示的話，作為一個追蹤談判好幾個月的人，我懷疑普丁會輕易答應。

As a matter of fact, even Russian Ministry of Foreign affairs stated that they will not sign such an agreement anytime soon, which tells us really all we need to, all we need to know.

事實上，就連俄羅斯外交部也表示，他們近期內不會簽署這樣的協議，這就告訴我們所有我們需要知道的。

So this is a step in the right direction.

所以，這是朝正確方向邁出的一步。

Of course, you know, any talks and any further development negotiations.

當然，你知道的，任何的會談和任何進一步的談判發展。

But as I mentioned, it takes two parties to this to agree.

但正如我所提到的，這需要雙方同意。

And Putin has been candid about his desire to completely subjugate Ukraine.

而普丁一直坦率地表示他想徹底征服烏克蘭。

And just yesterday's attack on Kyiv tells us all we need to know about Russia's efforts to end this war.

而昨天對基輔的襲擊，就告訴了我們關於俄羅斯結束這場戰爭的努力的一切。

Well, one, of course, the, the big sticking points, and

嗯，當然，其中一個重大的棘手問題，還有

there's a lot of controversy about this, is potential territorial concessions by Ukraine to Russia.

這有很多爭議，就是烏克蘭可能向俄羅斯做出領土讓步。

How can a solution ever be found to this issue?

這個問題要怎麼找到解決辦法呢？

Ivana, we have to understand how Putin is negotiating.

Ivana，我們必須瞭解普丁是怎麼談判的。

And his ultimate goal, as I mentioned, is to subjugate Ukraine.

而我提到的，他的最終目標是征服烏克蘭。

And number two is to make sure that the west gives up on negotiations.

第二點是確保西方國家放棄談判。

By asking maximal demands, including secession of territories, to secede territory.

提出極端的要求，包括割讓領土，讓出土地。

Because Putin understands very well that Zelenskyy cannot easily move forward with such, with such demands.

因為普丁很清楚，澤倫斯基無法輕易地接受這樣的要求。

My worry is it's not only what's happening with Donbas, but

我擔心不只是頓巴斯的狀況，還有

also in large part what's happening with nuclear power plants of Parisia.

還有很大一部分是關於札波羅熱核電廠的狀況。

So that's the part where we need to also pay attention to because it's very important for geopolitical stance how Russia has been using that as a blackmail.

所以這也是我們需要關注的部分，因為俄羅斯如何利用這一點來勒索，對地緣政治的立場非常重要。

As Putin is absolutely misinformed by his yes sayers.

普丁完全被身邊的奉承者誤導了。

He believes that he's doing quite well on the battlefield.

他認為自己在戰場上表現得相當好。

And if you read carefully Russian media, they basically claim that they have no incentive to stop this war.

如果你仔細閱讀俄羅斯的媒體，他們基本上聲稱沒有任何動機要停止這場戰爭。

So all Putin really wants to do right now is to pose, buy more time to reposition his military and to continue.

所以普丁現在真正想做的就是拖延時間，爭取更多時間來重新部署他的軍隊並繼續下去。

All right, well, I want to bring in now what Donald Trump said in a statement when he was asked about Russia's role in Ukraine's reconstruction.

好的，現在我想請教一下川普在被問到俄羅斯在烏克蘭重建中的角色時發表的聲明。

So let's take a listen and then we'll speak again after this.

所以我們來聽聽，聽完之後再聊。

Russia wants to see Ukraine succeed once.

俄羅斯希望烏克蘭能成功一次。

I was Explaining to the president, President Putin was very generous in his feeling toward Ukraine succeeding, including supplying energy, electricity, and

我跟總統解釋過，普丁總統對烏克蘭的成功非常有幫助，包括以非常低的價格提供能源、電力以及

You've made it very clear what you feel is the position there from Russia.

妳已經很清楚地說明瞭妳認為俄羅斯的立場是什麼。

Now, Putin has been bombarding Ukraine and its energy sector for years now.

現在，普丁已經轟炸烏克蘭及其能源部門多年了。

Does Donald Trump really think the Kremlin wants to see Ukraine succeed and help with cheap energy?

川普總統真的認為克里姆林宮希望看到烏克蘭成功並提供廉價能源嗎？

You know, in negotiations, sometimes words are very cheap.

你知道，在談判中，有時候說話是很便宜的。

So whether President Trump genuinely believes that Putin is the good guy who wants to help Ukraine or not, I cannot say that.

所以，川普總統是否真心認為普丁是個想幫助烏克蘭的好人，我無法確定。

But I will tell you one thing, which is that this is literally saying that we should allow Fox to guard the hen house.

但我會告訴你一件事，那就是這簡直是在說我們應該讓狐狸去看守雞舍。

It is absolutely impossible to imagine Putin wanting Ukraine to succeed.

根本無法想像普丁會希望烏克蘭成功。

As a matter of fact, as I mentioned, his ultimate goal is to subjugate Ukraine.

事實上，正如我所提到的，他的最終目標是征服烏克蘭。

He even questions the sovereignty of Ukraine.

He believes that Ukraine is not even a country, should actually be part of Russia.

他認為烏克蘭根本不是一個國家，應該屬於俄羅斯。

So, yes, Putin understands one thing, which is that Americans love to talk business, and

所以，是的，普丁明白一件事，那就是美國人喜歡談生意，

that's precisely why he's pushing for that economic development.

這正是他推動經濟發展的原因。

That's an old KGB strategy, and we should not fall for that.

這是一種老舊的 KGB 策略，我們不應該上當。

All right, I want to bring in Europe now with regards to security guarantees after the war.

好的，現在我想談談歐洲，關於戰後的安全保障。

Donald Trump wants the Europeans to bear the brunt of the burden.

川普希望歐洲人能承擔主要的負擔。

Do you think Europeans are prepared to do this?

你覺得歐洲人準備好這麼做嗎？

While a lot of people are focusing during peace negotiations on security guarantees, Putin is not worried about that.

雖然很多人在和平談判時專注於安全保障，但普丁並不擔心這個。

Because he understands very well that the west is not willing to fight a war for any of those, with Russia against Russia for any of those countries, whether it's the Baltic States, et cetera, et cetera.

因為他非常清楚，西方國家不願意為了任何一個國家，與俄羅斯開戰，無論是波羅的海國家等等。