Name: 澤倫斯基與杜達對談傳達了重塑波蘭–烏克蘭關係的訊號？| DW 新聞 (Why Zelenskyy-Nawrocki talks signal a push to reset Poland–Ukraine relations | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-20T16:55:00.000Z
Duration: 4 min 3 s

Ukraine's President Volodymyr Zelensky is in Poland for talks on security and the economy.

烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基正在波蘭，就安全和經濟議題進行會談。

基礎被動語態

Zelensky was greeted by the Polish president.

波蘭總統親自迎接了澤倫斯基。

You see the two right there at the presidential palace.

你們可以看到他們兩位就在總統府。

Poland's head of state is less supportive of Ukraine than his predecessor.

波蘭現任國家元首對烏克蘭的支持，不如他的前任。

Anti Ukraine sentiment is rising among some voters in Poland, especially among supporters of the right wing parties.

在波蘭，部分選民對烏克蘭的情緒日漸高漲，特別是右翼政黨的支持者。

Poland has been one of Ukraine's staunchest backers and has taken in almost a million refugees, second only to to Germany.

波蘭一直是烏克蘭最堅定的支持者之一，收容了近百萬難民，僅次於德國。

All right, for more, I want to pull in now.

好的，更多消息，我現在要請到。

Filip Bednarchuk, the Warsaw office director from the German Marshall Fund.

德國馬歇爾基金會華沙辦事處主任 Filip Bednarchuk。

How important are these talks for Ukraine?

對烏克蘭來說，這些會談非常重要。

I think it's to assuage some of the fears and feelings that you referred to here in Poland amongst society and amongst some of the political corners that Poland support for Ukraine is either not being appreciated or perhaps taken for granted.

我認為這是為了緩和您剛才提到的，波蘭社會和一些政治圈對烏克蘭支持未被感激或被視為理所當然的擔憂和感受。

And so this sort of diplomacy, the personal one on one meeting between the presidents will be important for the next few steps in Polish support for Ukraine.

是以，這種外交，總統之間一對一的會面，對於波蘭未來對烏克蘭的支持至關重要。

Tell me, what are the challenges in this new relationship between these two men?

告訴我，這兩位領導人之間的新關係面臨哪些挑戰？

Yeah, well, President Zelenskyy is facing a muted Polish support Ukraine right now.

是的，澤倫斯基總統目前面臨波蘭對烏克蘭支持的降溫。

And that's not reflected in terms of economic or military support for Ukraine, but

這並非體現在對烏克蘭的經濟或軍事支持上，

it's rather reflected here in Polish society on support, societal support, economic support for Ukrainians here in Poland, Ukrainian refugees and economic migrants.

而是體現在波蘭社會對在此的烏克蘭難民和經濟移民的支持上，以及社會層面的支持。

Nevertheless, like this is still understood to be a boon and a boost to the Polish economy and demographic situation.

然而，這仍然被認為對波蘭的經濟和人口狀況是個福音和推動力。

But it is testing some of the social cohesion here in society when in an open democratic society where things come up during elections and in the press and stories.

但這考驗著社會的凝聚力，在一個開放的民主社會裡，選舉和媒體報導中會出現各種議題。

So it's a conversation that's certainly picking up tempo sometimes in a harmful manner.

所以這場對話的節奏有時確實會加快，而且有時會以有害的方式進行。

I would assume that Zelensky, he has an easier time when he meets with Prime Minister Donald Tusk, am I reading that correctly?

我想澤倫斯基跟總理唐納德·圖斯克見面時，應該會比較輕鬆吧？我這樣理解對嗎？

They met yesterday in Brussels to discuss the loan issues.

他們昨天在布魯塞爾見面討論了貸款議題。

They'll also meet today to talk about bilateral issues that fall more into the government's remit, that is more economic support, military support, and

他們今天也會見面，談論一些比較屬於政府職責範圍內的雙邊議題，像是經濟和軍事支援，

that will be a smoother conversation most likely.

There are some issues that I believe the President would like to bring up, namely touchy historical issues that are coming up in the previous mentioned through the previous lens.

我認為總統會想提出一些議題，也就是透過前面提到的角度，來談論那些敏感的歷史議題。

That will be a part of the President's conversation with President Zelenskyy, President Novretsky Zelenskyy, that'll be a little more difficult to address.

這將是總統與澤倫斯基總統、諾維茨基·澤倫斯基總統談話的一部分，處理起來會比較棘手。

But nevertheless, I think there's a good opportun to move forward on those issues as well.

不過，我認為在這些議題上也有很好的機會可以往前推進。

We've heard the Polish president, he's been quoted as saying that Ukraine takes Poland for granted.

我們聽說波蘭總統曾說過，烏克蘭把波蘭視為理所當然。

我的意思是，他要怎麼改變這種看法？

I mean how can he take an opinion and change it with deeds?

他的意思是，他要如何用行動來改變這種看法？

Yeah, this, this visit is important in that sense.

對，這次的訪問在這方面很重要。

The one on one meeting, the statement afterwards, the press conference is happening right now.

一對一的會談、後續的聲明、記者會正在進行中。

I believe a public thank you with standing next to President Novrotsky will be helpful.

我相信公開感謝諾維茨基總統，並與他站在一起，會很有幫助。

The next steps and I mentioned some of the historic issues, the touchy historic issues that are talked about quite often here in Poland.

接下來的步驟，我提到了其中一些歷史議題，那些在波蘭經常被談論的棘手歷史議題。

I think there are small steps that can be made to avoid some further misunderstanding on these issues that will be maybe small on paper but incredibly symbolic and appreciated here in Poland.

我認為可以採取一些小步驟來避免在這些議題上進一步的誤解，這些步驟在紙面上或許微小，但在波蘭卻極具象徵意義且備受讚賞。

Well, we appreciate your time, Philip, and your valuable insights today.

嗯，菲利普，我們很感謝您今天寶貴的時間和見解。