Name: 特朗普談內部對 MAGA 的責備：美國優先 "的含義由我決定 (Trump on internal MAGA criticism: I decide what 'America First' means)
Uploaded: 2025-06-19T16:56:31.000Z
Duration: 6 min 33 s

In an interview with The Atlantic, Trump hit back at some of these critics saying he is the one who came up with America first in the first place, so he gets to decide what it means.

在接受《大西洋月刊》採訪時，特朗普回擊了其中一些批評者，稱他是提出 "美國優先 "的第一人，是以他有權決定 "美國優先 "的含義。

程度副詞

This is, I mean, we were just talking about peace, right?

我是說，我們剛剛還在談論和平，對吧？

反身代名詞

Like, Trump, it feels like he's a little bit at war with himself, because he's said all the time,

就像特朗普，感覺他有點自相矛盾，因為他一直在說、

I mean, he wants to be known as the peacemaker, the dealmaker, the guy who ends wars.

我的意思是，他想被稱為和平締造者、交易者、結束戰爭的人。

And yet here he finds himself defending another war.

然而在這裡，他卻發現自己在為另一場戰爭辯護。

Well, I don't know, I don't think Trump's defending the war.

我不知道，我不認為特朗普是在為戰爭辯護。

Trump's defending Israel's actions, and within a week or two, he's gonna try to find an off-ramp to bring it to peace.

特朗普正在為以色列的行動辯護，一兩週內，他就會試圖找到一條通往和平的道路。

And as for Tucker Carlson and Steve Bannon, they do not define what the MAGA or the conservative base is.

至於塔克-卡爾森和史蒂夫-班農，他們並不能定義什麼是 MAGA 或保守派基礎。

The base, the MAGA base, the conservative base, believe me, they're all behind Trump, and that's it.

基礎、MAGA 基礎、保守基礎，相信我，他們都支持特朗普，僅此而已。

He's the one that calls the shots on what kind of defines that MAGA base.

他才是那個為 MAGA 基地下定義的人。

And he's not trying to get us into a war, he's trying to get us out of that war.

他不是想讓我們捲入戰爭，而是想讓我們擺脫戰爭。

And yes, and he understands the political ramifications if it goes too long, if it doesn't work out.

是的，他也明白，如果時間太長，如果不成功，會有政治後果。

doing everything they can to kind of cut a deal to end this divide than the governor's giving credit for.

比起州長的功勞，他們正竭盡全力達成一項協議，以結束這場分歧。

Meaning, I think that this is really a divisive issue within MAGA.

也就是說，我認為這確實是 MAGA 內部的一個分歧問題。

I don't think everyone in MAGA is saying, okay, you know, we're with Trump on this.

我不認為 MAGA 的每個人都會說，好吧，你知道，在這件事上我們支持特朗普。

I think there are a number, a good number, of high-profile MAGA figures who are saying, this is not what we signed up for.

我認為，有很多高知名度的 MAGA 人士都在說，這不是我們的初衷。

Now, does that mean they're gonna stop supporting

現在，這是否意味著他們將停止支持

But it means that on this issue, we're seeing a fracture that we have not seen up to this point within MAGA world.

但這意味著，在這個問題上，我們看到了 MAGA 世界迄今為止從未見過的分裂。

I mean, Trump is supposed to have broken with the neocons of the world who, you know, the Lindsey Grahams who are pushing for the U.S. to get involved.

我的意思是，特朗普應該已經與世界上的新保守派決裂，你知道，林賽-格雷厄姆（Lindsey Grahams）推動美國捲入其中。

And I think that there's a feeling of betrayal here.

我覺得這裡有一種被背叛的感覺。

Marjorie Taylor Greene, another one of these very close Trump supporters, big backers of his, says anyone slobbering for the U.S.

馬喬裡-泰勒-格林（Marjorie Taylor Greene）是特朗普的另一位非常親密的支持者，也是他的忠實擁護者，她說，任何人都會為美國流口水。

to become fully involved in the Israel-Iran war is not America first MAGA.

全面捲入以伊戰爭不是美國優先的 MAGA。

You know, they're putting a line down and Trump is being forced to make a choice.

你知道，他們正在劃下一條線，特朗普被迫做出選擇。

I don't know if you asked Steve Bannon straight up, you think Iran should have nuclear capabilities?

我不知道你是否直接問過史蒂夫-班農，你認為伊朗應該擁有核能力嗎？

But he doesn't want the U.S. to be involved in the fight.

但他不希望美國捲入這場戰鬥。

Okay, but unless the U.S. is involved, we may have a big problem.

好吧，但除非美國參與進來，否則我們可能會有大麻煩。

And the other thing, Abby, I think it may be a little naive not to recognize Donald Trump was born and raised a New Yorker, surrounded by Jewish people, more Jewish people than anywhere else in the United States of America.

還有一件事，艾比，我認為，如果不承認唐納德-特朗普是土生土長的紐約人，周圍都是猶太人，比美國其他任何地方的猶太人都多，那就有點太天真了。

And as you just reported, there's thousands, tens of thousands, maybe hundreds of thousands of Americans in Israel.

正如你剛才報道的，在以色列有數千、數萬甚至數十萬美國人。

So it would just be a dereliction of duty if he didn't step in and protect American interests.

是以，如果他不出面保護美國的利益，那就是失職。

We have military interests there, we have human being interests there, and cultural interests there.

我們在那裡有軍事利益、人類利益和文化利益。

他們是該地區唯一的民主國家。

Look, though, he was just in the Arab world.

They just gave him a $400 million jet from Qatar.

他們剛從卡達給了他一架價值 4 億美元的飛機。

So I think a lot of people voted for Donald Trump because he told America that Joe Biden and the Democrats were going to lead to World War III.

是以，我認為很多人投票支持唐納德-特朗普，因為他告訴美國人，喬-拜登和民主黨人將導致第三次世界大戰。

He said that he was going to end wars on day one.

他說，他第一天就要結束戰爭。

Certainly he said that about the Ukraine war,

當然，他在烏克蘭戰爭中也是這麼說的、

我想，還有烏克蘭-俄羅斯戰爭。

I think that once he got in there, he's realized it's not as easy as he thought, that just by the fact that he swore in things are not going to end and things are not going to change.

我認為，一旦他上任，他就會意識到事情並不像他想象的那麼簡單，只要他宣誓就職，事情就不會結束，也不會改變。

I think it's difficult for the MAGA world that there's a section, a faction of it that is very isolationist and doesn't want us to be involved in anything to accept that this is the reality of being the leaders of the free world, if we are still that.

我認為，對於 MAGA 世界來說，有一部分人、有一派人非常孤立，不希望我們參與任何事情，他們很難接受這是作為自由世界領袖的現實，如果我們仍然是這樣的話。

You see, when you're transactional all the way down, my dear brother, it means that you have only permanent interests, no permanent friends, no permanent enemies, even.

我親愛的兄弟，你看，如果你一直都是交易型的，那就意味著你只有永久的利益，沒有永久的朋友，甚至沒有永久的敵人。

It's like Thrasymachus in Plato's Republic.

這就像柏拉圖《共和國》中的特拉斯馬科斯。

You just go through the world believing you can have transactional relations with everybody.

在這個世界上，你只是相信你可以與所有人建立交易關係。

It's a very sad way of being in the world, but that's not what we're talking about right now, which means that any minute, he could betray any group.

這是一種非常可悲的處世方式，但我們現在談論的不是這個，這意味著他隨時可能背叛任何組織。

But when you're president of the United States, don't you have those types of relationships all over the globe, from North Korea to Iran?

但當你身為美國總統時，你不是在全球各地，從北韓到伊朗，都有這類關係嗎？

But he, as governor, you had to have some integrity that's not reducible to transactional-

但他作為州長，你必須要有一些正直的品格，而這些品格不能被還原為交易--

Look, I had relations with everybody, and I think Trump's approach is, look, to make sure we're protecting America's interests,

聽著，我和每個人都有關係，我認為特朗普的做法是，聽著，確保我們在保護美國的利益、

I think, to Arthur's point exactly, it is in our interest to make sure, and it's in everyone's interest to make sure there's nothing nuclear in Iran, and that is very much an America first in America's interest-

我認為，正如亞瑟所說，確保伊朗沒有核武器符合我們的利益，也符合每個人的利益，這在很大程度上是美國利益至上的體現。

He said, it's America first, not America dead, essentially.

他說，本質上是美國優先，而不是美國死亡。

Yeah, but I think we have to ask the question, how involved is the U.S. actually?

是的，但我認為我們必須問一個問題，美國到底參與了多少？

I mean, my understanding is, yes, the U.S. has been involved in assisting in knocking down some missiles that have been coming into Israel.

我的意思是，我的理解是，是的，美國參與了協助擊落一些射入以色列的飛彈。

Does that mean that the U.S. is at war with Iran?

這是否意味著美國正在與伊朗開戰？

Does it mean that the U.S. is providing bunker busters to get rid of Iranian nuclear facilities?

這是否意味著美國正在提供掩體破壞者來摧毀伊朗的核設施？

And so, I think it's an overstatement to say, oh, the U.S. is now involved with it.

是以，我認為說 "哦，美國現在參與其中了 "未免言過其實。

This is gonna be the end of the U.S. empire,

正如塔克-卡爾森所說，美國帝國。

I mean, the U.S.'s involvement at this point has been pretty minimal.

我的意思是，美國在這一點上的參與已經非常少了。

And it's about in line with the U.S.'s involvement in these conflicts vis-a-vis Israel over the many, many decades.

這與幾十年來美國參與這些衝突、與以色列發生衝突的情況是一致的。

Like, it's an overreaction. America first, not America dead.

比如，這是反應過度。美國優先，而不是美國死亡。

He wasn't referring to America playing dead.

He was referring to, today, they're bombing Tel Aviv.

他指的是，今天，他們正在轟炸特拉維夫。

Tomorrow, there could be nuclear warheads.

He would be humiliated, just like Biden, just like Obama, just like Bush.

他會像拜登、奧巴馬和布什一樣被羞辱。

And the involvement of American Israel is already so inseparable, right?

而美國以色列的參與已經如此密不可分，不是嗎？

You've got the facilitating of the military equipment.

They couldn't have done those war crimes without the United States' support.

沒有美國的支持，他們不可能犯下這些戰爭罪行。