Name: 盧比奧指責澤倫斯基破壞特朗普會議 (Rubio points finger at Zelensky for breakdown of Trump meeting)
Uploaded: 2025-03-05T08:09:02.000Z
Duration: 10 min 7 s

And my source tonight is the Secretary of State, who is in that room today, Marco Rubio.

今晚我的消息來源是國務卿，他今天就在那個房間裡，馬可-盧比奧。

動名詞

Thank you so much, Secretary Rubio, for being here.

魯比奧部長，非常感謝你的到來。

過去簡單式

我們剛剛聽到澤倫斯基總統的發言。

He said he does not think that he owes President Trump an apology for what happened inside the Oval Office today.

他說，他不認為自己欠特朗普總統為今天在橢圓形辦公室內發生的事情道歉。

You don't see all the things that led up to this.

你沒有看到這一切的前因後果。

He thinks this war should have never started.

He believes, and I agree, that had he been president, it never would have happened.

他認為，如果他是總統，這一切就不會發生，我也同意這一點。

He's trying to bring an end to this conflict.

We've explained very clearly what our plan is here, which is we want to get the Russians to a negotiating table.

我們已經非常清楚地解釋了我們在這裡的計劃，那就是我們希望讓俄羅斯人坐到談判桌前。

We want to explore whether peace is possible.

They also understand that this agreement that was supposed to be signed today was supposed to be an agreement that binds America economically to Ukraine, which to me, as I've explained, and I think the president alluded to today, is a security guarantee in its own way, because we're involved.

他們也明白，今天本應簽署的這份協議本應是一份在經濟上約束美國與烏克蘭的協議，對我來說，正如我已經解釋過的，而且我認為總統今天也暗示過，這本身就是一種安全保障，因為我們參與其中了。

And nonetheless, for the last 10 days, in every engagement we've had with the Ukrainians, there's been complications in getting that point across, including the public statements that President Zelensky has made.

儘管如此，在過去的 10 天裡，在我們與烏克蘭人的每一次接觸中，在傳達這一觀點方面都出現了複雜的情況，包括澤連斯基總統發表的公開聲明。

This agreement could have been signed five days ago, but they insisted on coming to Washington, and there was a very, and should have been a very clear understanding, don't come here and create a scenario where you're going to start lecturing us about how diplomacy isn't going to work.

這項協議本可以在五天前簽署，但他們堅持要到華盛頓來，而且當時有一個非常明確的共識，那就是不要到這裡來，不要製造一個你要開始教訓我們外交如何行不通的場景。

President Zelensky took it in that direction, and it ended in a predictable outcome as a  It's unfortunate.

澤倫斯基總統把它引向了那個方向，結果是一個可以預料的結果。

That wasn't supposed to be this way, but that's the path he chose, and I think, frankly, sends his country backwards in regards to achieving peace, which is what President Trump wants at the end of the day, is for this war to end.

這本不應該是這樣的，但這就是他選擇的道路，坦率地說，我認為這讓他的國家在實現和平方面倒退了，而這正是特朗普總統最終想要的，那就是結束這場戰爭。

He's been as consistent as anyone can be about what his objective is here.

他對自己在這裡的目標始終如一。

But what specifically do you want to see President Zelensky apologize for?

但你具體希望澤倫斯基總統為什麼道歉？

Well, apologize for turning this thing into the fiasco for him that it became.

好吧，為把這件事變成他的慘敗而道歉。

There was no need for him to go in there and become antagonistic.

It went off the rails when he said, let me ask you a question to the vice president.

當他說，讓我問副總統一個問題時，情況就失控了。

What kind of diplomacy are you talking about?

I mean, thousands of people have been killed, thousands.

我的意思是，成千上萬的人被殺害，成千上萬。

And he talks about all these horrible things that have happened to prisoners of war and children, all true, all bad.

他講述了發生在戰俘和兒童身上的所有可怕的事情，都是真的，都很糟糕。

The way you bring it to an end is you get Russia to the table to talk.

讓俄羅斯人坐到談判桌前談話，就是結束談判的辦法。

And he understands that attacking Putin, no matter how anyone may feel about him personally, forcing the president into a position where you're trying to goad him into attacking Putin, calling him names, maximalist demands about Russia having to pay for the reconstruction, all the sorts of things that you talk about in a negotiation.

他明白，攻擊普京，不管別人對他個人有什麼看法，迫使總統陷入一種境地，你試圖誘導他攻擊普京，罵他，提出俄羅斯必須支付重建費用的最高要求，所有這些都是你在談判中要談的。

Well, when you start talking about that aggressively, and the president's a dealmaker, he's made deals his entire life, you're not going to get people to the table.

當你開始咄咄逼人地談論這個問題時，而總統是個交易者，他一生都在做交易，你是不會讓人們坐到談判桌前的。

And so you start to perceive that maybe Zelensky doesn't want a peace deal.

所以你開始覺得澤倫斯基可能並不想達成和平協議。

他說他知道，但也許他不知道。

And that active, open undermining of efforts to bring about peace is deeply frustrating for everyone who's been involved in communications with them leading up to today.

這種積極、公開地破壞實現和平努力的行為，讓今天之前一直參與與他們溝通的每個人都深感沮喪。

And I think we should apologize for wasting our time for a meeting that was going to end the way it did.

我認為我們應該為浪費我們的時間而道歉，因為我們的會議將以這樣的方式結束。

You yourself have said previously that Putin cannot be trusted in negotiations.

你自己以前也說過，在談判中不能信任普京。

That was the point that President Zelensky was ultimately making during that conversation, is that there cannot be an agreement without security guarantees, because he was talking about all the ceasefire agreements before, or agreements that Putin has just blown past.

這就是澤連斯基總統在那次談話中最終要表達的觀點，即沒有安全保障就不可能達成協議，因為他說的是之前的所有停火協議，或者普京剛剛吹過的協議。

I mean, do you still feel that way, that Putin cannot be trusted in these negotiations?

我的意思是，你是否仍然認為普京在這些談判中不可信任？

Well, I was there yesterday when the president said in front of the media that our approach is going to be trust, but verify.

昨天，當總統在媒體面前說我們的方法是 "信任但核實 "時，我就在現場。

President Trump's made deals his entire life.

He's not going to get suckered into some deal that's not a real deal.

他不會被騙去做什麼虛假的交易。

We understand it on our end, for certain.

And so the goal here is to get to a place where we have to explore whether peace is possible.

是以，這裡的目標是讓我們去探索和平是否可能。

I think it is, based on what they've said so far.

根據他們目前的說法，我認為是這樣的。

I ask people, what is the European plan to end this war?

我問大家，歐洲有什麼計劃來結束這場戰爭？

I can tell you what one foreign minister told me, and I'm not going to say who it was, but I can tell you what one of them told me, and that is that the war goes on for another year.

我可以告訴你一位外長告訴我的事，我不想說是誰，但我可以告訴你其中一位外長告訴我的事，那就是戰爭還要再打一年。

And at that point, Russia will feel so weakened that they'll beg for a peace.

到那時，俄羅斯就會覺得自己被嚴重削弱，從而乞求和平。

That's another year of killing, another year of dying, another year of destruction.

又是一年殺戮，又是一年死亡，又是一年毀滅。

And by the way, not a very realistic plan in my point of view.

順便說一句，在我看來，這並不是一個非常現實的計劃。

So if there's a chance of peace, even if it's a 1% chance, that needs to be explored.

是以，如果有和平的機會，哪怕只有 1%，也需要去探索。

And that's what President Trump is trying to do here.

President Trump said just when he was leaving the White House after that meeting that he doesn't think President Zelensky wants peace.

特朗普總統在會談後離開白宮時說，他不認為澤倫斯基總統想要和平。

But isn't that why the Ukrainian leader was in the Oval Office for that meeting today?

但這不正是烏克蘭領導人今天在橢圓形辦公室參加會議的原因嗎？

Well, he was in the Oval Office to sign a minerals rights deal.

他在橢圓形辦公室簽署了一份礦產權利協議。

That's what he was in the Oval Office to sign today.

這就是他今天在橢圓形辦公室簽署的文件。

But again, when you have comments that deliberately appear to be deliberately, I mean, after having discussed this repeatedly, deliberately appear to be geared towards making the argument that peace is not possible.

但同樣，當你的評論故意表現出--我是說，在反覆討論過這個問題之後--故意表現出要提出和平是不可能的論點。

You know, again, I turn to the, he turns to the Vice President, what kind of diplomacy are you talking about?

我再次問副總統，你說的是什麼外交？

Almost as if to say, these people, you can't deal with them.

好像在說，這些人，你不能和他們打交道。

We can't, you can't have any negotiations with Putin because he can't be trusted and you're just wasting your time on negotiations.

我們不能，你們不能與普京進行任何談判，因為他不可信，你們只是在浪費時間進行談判。

Well, he's directly, basically undermining everything the president has told him he's trying to do.

他直接破壞了總統告訴他要做的一切。

You start to suspect, does he really want an end to this war?

你開始懷疑，他真的想結束這場戰爭嗎？

Does he just think that, you know, we have to do whatever he says and give him anything he wants without any end game?

他是否認為，他說什麼我們就得做什麼，他要什麼我們就給他什麼，而沒有任何最終目的？

And unfortunately for the Ukrainians, the Russians have more meat to grind and they don't care about human life.

對烏克蘭人來說，不幸的是，俄羅斯人有更多的肉要磨，他們不在乎人命。

We've seen it, human waves and North Koreans, et cetera.

我們已經看到了，人浪和朝鮮人等等。

是以，這是一件非常複雜的事情。

It needs to be brought to an end, but it isn't going to be brought to an end with public pronouncements and maximalist demands in the public.

我們需要結束這種狀況，但這並不是通過公開聲明和公眾的最高要求就能結束的。

But in real diplomacy, the vice president was right.

但在真正的外交中，副總統是對的。

When you say they don't care about life, you, are you talking about the Russians or the Ukrainians?

當你說他們不在乎生命時，你是在說俄羅斯人還是烏克蘭人？

Well, the Russians, I mean, they're conscripting by the hundreds of thousands.

They brought in North Korean troops that were slaughtered and cursed and they keep going because they got more people.

他們把被屠殺和詛咒的北韓軍隊帶進來，並繼續前進，因為他們得到了更多的人。

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盧比奧指責澤倫斯基破壞特朗普會議 (Rubio points finger at Zelensky for breakdown of Trump meeting)

ultimately

entire

strategy

deliberately