Name: 蘋果50年：iPhone 創造者如何徹底改變科技業 | 服務條款 (Apple at 50: How the iPhone maker revolutionized tech | Terms of Service)
Uploaded: 2026-03-17T16:35:57.000Z
Duration: 24 min 52 s

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If I asked you what one company has had the biggest impact on personal technology, on the gadgets we use, the services available on those devices, the culture around tech, what would you say?

如果我問你，哪一家公司對個人科技、我們使用的小工具、裝置上的服務、以及科技文化影響最大，你會怎麼說？

Apple revolutionized personal computers, phones and more.

Apple革命性地改變了個人電腦、手機等等。

And as today's guest David Pogue writes in his new book talk, 27% of the world's population now uses Apple products.

正如今天的嘉賓David Pogue在他的新書談話中所寫，現在有27%的世界人口是Apple產品的使用者。

That means if Apple users were a country, it would be the most populous in the world.

這表示，如果Apple的使用者是一個國家，那將是世界上人口最多的國家。

As the company turns 50 years old this year, I wanted to take a look back at how Apple came to have such a huge influence in all of our lives.

隨著公司今年滿50歲，我想回顧一下Apple是如何對我們所有人的生活產生如此巨大的影響。

So I invited David Pogue into the studio.

所以我邀請了David Pogue來到攝影棚。

David is a CBS Sunday Morning correspondent and best selling author whose new book Apple the first 50 years paints a detailed picture of that history.

David是CBS Sunday Morning的記者，也是暢銷書作家，他的新書《Apple the first 50 years》詳細描繪了這段歷史。

My conversation with David, coming right up.

我跟David的談話，馬上就要開始了。

Before we really get into the book, you have been writing about Apple for over 20 years now.

在我們深入聊這本書之前，你其實已經寫Apple超過20年了。

You were actually in college when the first Macintosh came out.

第一臺Macintosh出來的時候，你還在唸大學。

What was it like for you when you first experienced Apple's technology?

你第一次接觸Apple的科技時，感覺怎麼樣？

That was really my introduction to technology.

那真的就是我接觸科技的開端。

But I mean I, I was like a musical theater nerd in high school.

但說真的，我高中時是個音樂劇宅。

But this thing was so beautiful and so powerful.

I mean, many of your viewers are too young to remember, but in 1984, computers were command line.

我的意思是，你們的許多觀眾可能太年輕不記得，但在1984年，電腦還是指令列的時代。

You would memorize commands, you'd have to type them with punctuation.

你會死背指令，還得加上標點符號才能輸入。

They may or may not have had a screen, right?

它們可能會有螢幕，也可能沒有，對吧？

Computers until the Apple 1 and Apple II did not even have screens or keyboards.

在 Apple 1 和 Apple II 之前，電腦甚至沒有螢幕或鍵盤。

You used flippy switches and little lights to read the output.

你得用撥動開關和訓示燈來讀取輸出。

But the Macintosh was completely different.

It was the first time the masses had a mouse and menus so you didn't have to remember the commands and windows that overlapped and you could copy and paste and little icons that represented your pieces of paper.

那是第一次，大眾有了滑鼠和選單，所以你不必死記指令，還有重疊的視窗，你可以複製貼上，還有代表你紙張的小圖示。

But at the time it was revolutionary and opened up using computers to vast new realms of people.

但在當時，這革命性地改變了，讓電腦的使用者拓展到前所未有的廣大族群。

For people who might not realize the full picture, just give us an overview of how influential and powerful Apple is now.

對於可能不太清楚全貌的人，能不能簡單跟我們說一下 Apple 現在有多具影響力、多強大？

Well, until AI came along, it was the most valuable company in the world in terms of its total stock price.

嗯，在 AI 出現之前，以總市值來說，它是世界上最有價值的公司。

They make a million dollars every 90 seconds.

他們每 90 秒就能賺進一百萬美元。

Stat from the book While we've been sitting here, Steve Jobs revolutionized the marketing of technology.

書中的數據顯示，就在我們坐著哈拉的時候，Steve Jobs 革命性地改變了科技的行銷方式。

The design of technology, the simplification.

And also Apple didn't invent the CD drive, the DVD burner, WI fi, the touchscreen phone, the tablet.

而且 Apple 也不是 CD 光碟機、DVD 燒錄機、Wi-Fi、觸控螢幕手機、平板電腦的發明者。

All those things came before the laser printer, the personal network, but Apple introduced them all.

所有這些東西在雷射印表機、個人網路出現之前就有了，但 Apple 卻將它們全部推向市場。

So Jobs thing was being able to spot fledgling new technologies that were really cool but really complicated and not there for everyday consumer use, and

所以 Jobs 的厲害之處在於，他能發現那些很酷但很複雜、還沒辦法給一般消費者使用的潛在新興科技，

simplifying them and beautifying them enough that they could release it to everybody.

然後加以簡化、美化，讓所有人都能輕鬆上手。

Right, Apple, I mean, Apple products obviously are so popular.

沒錯，Apple，我是說，Apple 產品當然非常受歡迎。

Could you talk a little bit about why you think it's important for folks, for users to look back at the history of this company?

你能不能稍微談談，為什麼你覺得對大家、對使用者來說，回顧這間公司的歷史很重要？

First of all, to understand how Apple got where it is, it helps to understand its culture.

首先，要了解 Apple 為什麼能有今天的成就，就得先了解它的文化。

And to know its culture, you have to look back to where that came from.

而要了解它的文化，就得回頭看看它的起源。

And it came from these two dudes, the two Steves, Wozniak and Jobs, who met Woz was in college and Jobs was in high school four years behind him.

它的起源來自這兩位夥伴，兩位 Steve，Wozniak 和 Jobs。Woz 上大學時，Jobs 晚他四年讀高中。

And they both had similar outlooks in terms of they wanted technology no longer to be the realm of governments and corporations and computer nerds.

他們兩人的想法很像，都希望科技不再只是政府、企業和電腦宅男的領域。

They wanted it to be an appliance for everybody, which was a weird thought in the 70s.

他們希望科技能成為每個人都能使用的家電，這在 70 年代是個很異想天開的想法。

I mean computers, the best thing you could get was a mini computer which is the size of a microwave oven.

我的意思是電腦，當時最好的東西是迷你電腦，大概有微波爐那麼大。

而且又沒有螢幕，也沒有鍵盤。

And these guys insisted that someday everyone would have a personal computer.

而這兩個人堅持，總有一天每個人都會有個人電腦。

You talk about the two Steves, Steve Jobs, Steve Wozniak.

你說到兩位 Steve，Steve Jobs，Steve Wozniak。

Most people, I think associate Apple with the iconic founder Steve Jobs.

我想大多數人會把 Apple 和標誌性的創辦人 Steve Jobs 聯想在一起。

Love you Woz, but you actually start the book with the story of Steve Wozniak.

Woz，我愛你，但你其實在書裡是以 Steve Wozniak 的故事開頭的。

Well, because the story began with Steve Wozniak.

嗯，因為故事是從 Steve Wozniak 開始的。

So Woz was a member of this local computer club in what we now call Silicon Valley, the Homebrew Computer Club, where all these nerds would go and they had this post 60s us against them.

所以 Woz 是當時在我們現在稱為矽谷的一個在地電腦社團的成員，叫做 Homebrew Computer Club，那裡聚集了所有這些書呆子，他們有一種後六零年代的「我們對抗他們」的心態。

Passion to bring computing to the masses.

And of course that was Woz's thought from the very beginning.

當然，這從一開始就是 Woz 的想法。

He made what we now know as the Apple one.

他做了我們現在知道的 Apple one。

No one remembers it, it wasn't even in a case, it was just a circuit board for hobbyists.

沒人記得它，它甚至沒有外殼，只是一塊給愛好者的電路板。

But from the beginning, Woz created the technology and Jobs wanted to sell it.

但從一開始，Woz 就創造了技術，而 Jobs 則想賣掉它。

Jobs wasn't entirely non technical, he was into electronics, but

Jobs 並非完全不懂技術，他對電子學有興趣，但是

nothing like Woz, who was just a savant with circuitry.

跟 Woz 完全沒得比，Woz 對電路簡直就是個天才。

So the Apple one and then the Apple ii, which of course was the computer that introduced the public to home computing.

所以 Apple 的第一臺電腦，然後是 Apple II，這當然是讓大眾接觸到家用電腦的電腦。

I mean, that thing sustained Apple for 10 years while they experimented with a bunch of failed machines.

我說，那臺機器支撐了 Apple 十年，期間他們嘗試了很多失敗的機器。

So really, Woz was the backbone of Apple's first 10 years.

所以說，Woz 確實是 Apple 最初十年的骨幹。

You make the point in the book that much of what Apple is, what it has been, can be traced back to Steve Jobs.

你在書中提到，Apple 現在的許多樣貌，以及它過去的樣子，都可以追溯到 Steve Jobs。

And how did that influence Apple's culture?

那又是如何影響了 Apple 的文化？

Jobs is depicted often as this raging tyrant who would just rip you apart if he didn't like your work.

Jobs 常常被描繪成一個暴君，如果他不喜歡你的作品，就會把你罵得狗血淋頭。

I think what all that misses is that there are really three Steve Jobses.

我覺得這些說法都忽略了一件事，那就是其實有三種不同版本的 Steve Jobs。

So there was a Steve 0.0, as Woz calls it, when he was in high school, and

所以，就像 Woz 說的，有「Steve 0.0」時期，那時候他還在唸高中，

he teamed up with Woz and they were friends.

然後他跟 Woz 聯手，他們是朋友。

They talk about girls and music and technology and culture.

他們會聊女生、音樂、科技和文化。

Then Jobs, very early twenties, very young, was thrust into the position of being a multimillionaire running this gigantic corporation.

然後 Jobs，二十出頭，非常年輕，就被推上了身價數百萬、經營一家龐大企業的領導者位置。

Never finished college, never had any training in managing or working with people.

他從未唸完大學，也沒有任何管理或與人共事的訓練。

And then he got kicked out of Apple in 1985 in part because of his temper and his intolerance.

然後他在 1985 年被 Apple 開除，部分原因就是他的脾氣和不容人。

then in 1996, Apple bought him, brought him back to the company, and

然後在 1996 年，Apple 買下了他，讓他回到公司，

He had started Pixar, he had started next.

他創立了 Pixar，他創立了 NeXT。

He had more experience in companies and working with people, and

他在公司和與人共事方面有了更多經驗，

he was a much more evenly balanced human being when he came back.

回來時他是一個更加平衡的人。

Yeah, it's interesting, I mean, just sort of broadly, it's sort of rare to see the founder of a tech company remain the CEO of the tech company for as it matures.

是啊，很有趣，我的意思是，總的來說，科技公司的創辦人能夠在公司成熟後，繼續擔任 CEO，這真的很少見。

Probably in part because of this thing like when you're 20 and you're starting a company, you don't know how to run a multibillion dollar company.

部分原因可能是，當你 20 歲創辦公司時，你根本不知道如何經營一家數十億美元的公司。

And it's even weirder if you think about it.

而且如果你仔細想想，這更奇怪了。

Apple, even as it became a many, many, many billions of dollar company, existed primarily to execute the ideas of Steve Jobs.

Apple 即使成長為一家數十億、數十億、數十億美元的公司，其主要目的仍然是執行 Steve Jobs 的想法。

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蘋果50年：iPhone 創造者如何徹底改變科技業 | 服務條款 (Apple at 50: How the iPhone maker revolutionized tech | Terms of Service)

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