Name: 歐洲航太主管示警：我們已落後中國與美國一大截！🚀 | The Dip Podcast (Europe's space chief warns we're dangerously behind China and the US | The Dip Podcast)
Uploaded: 2026-02-06T17:20:05.000Z
Duration: 8 min 59 s

Russia, United States, Japan and Canada, we have to work together.

俄羅斯、美國、日本和加拿大，我們必須一起合作。

One of the partners pulls out and the space station doesn't work anymore.

其中一個夥伴退出，太空站就無法運作了。

Europe has to step up, has to become stronger, more independent and autonomous.

歐洲必須挺身而出，必須變得更強、更獨立、更自主。

I really hope to have a very robust space industry in Europe and really develop some of the best space infrastructure in the world.

我真的很希望歐洲能有非常強健的太空產業，並開發出世界上最好的太空基礎設施。

The European Space Agency received a big boost to its budget, but it's still not enough.

歐洲太空總署的預算獲得了大幅提升，但仍然不夠。

I mean, if Starlink, for example, in Europe got switched off overnight, Europe doesn't have an alternative that's at that same level.

也就是說，如果 Starlink 在歐洲突然關閉，歐洲就沒有同等級的替代方案了。

Ariana 6, the launcher which sends up our satellites into space, it's behind what the US can do in terms of its launch capabilities.

Ariana 6，發射衛星到太空的火箭，在發射能力方面落後於美國。

所以總而言之，歐洲是脆弱的。

You could say Europe is dependent for sure.

But I met up with someone who knows all about this because he's the most important man in Europe for space.

但我遇到了一位非常瞭解這一切的人，因為他是歐洲太空領域裡最重要的人物。

You could say that's the European Space Agency boss, Josef Aschbacher.

可以說，他就是歐洲太空總署的署長 Josef Aschbacher。

There's a long tradition of global space agencies working together, cooperating almost no matter what the situation geopolitically on the ground.

全球太空總署之間有著長久的合作傳統，幾乎不論地緣政治局勢如何，大家都會合作。

Do you see that that's changed and that's becoming much more difficult.

你覺得這點改變了嗎？而且變得越來越困難。

We still have the space station where Russia, the United States, European Space Agency, Japan and Canada are working together.

我們還有太空站，俄羅斯、美國、歐洲太空總署、日本和加拿大都在上面合作。

It is a place where we have to work together because it's.

那是一個我們必須合作的地方，因為。

We cannot afford that one of the partners pulls out because then the space station doesn't work anymore.

我們不能承受其中一個夥伴退出，因為那樣太空站就無法運作了。

And I think it's also good that we do have this still, despite all the tensions down on the soil of planet Earth, space has been and further will continue to be a ground where we need to work together for a very simple reason, because some of the issues are global.

而且我認為，儘管地球上充滿了各種緊張局勢，太空仍然是我們必須合作的領域，而且未來也會繼續如此，原因很簡單，因為有些問題是全球性的。

So would you say that your job in many ways is to beat the US to beat China in certain strategic areas?

所以你會說，在很多方面，你的工作就是要在某些戰略領域擊敗美國和中國嗎？

My job is first and foremost to make sure that Europe has the space infrastructure it needs for its own purpose, for citizen security, for communication, for navigation, for Earth observation, for climate change studies, but

我的工作首先是確保歐洲擁有自己所需的太空基礎設施，用於公民安全、通訊、導航、地球觀測、氣候變遷研究，但

also studies around the world in order to better understand development aid, migration and all these issues that are political issues.

同時也用於研究世界各地，以便更好地瞭解發展援助、移民以及所有這些政治問題。

And I have reinforced cooperations with Japan, with South Korea, with India, with the uae, with many other countries.

我已經加強了與日本、韓國、印度、阿聯酋以及許多其他國家的合作。

Canada already is a so called cooperating state of visa and has increased its budget by a factor of four the last ministerial conference.

加拿大已經是所謂的協約國，在上次部長級會議上，其預算增加了四倍。

So more and more countries really want to work with us because we are good, reliable, trusted and a long term stable Partner.

所以越來越多的國家真的想和我們合作，因為我們是一個優秀、可靠、值得信賴且長期穩定的夥伴。

There's been a lot of talk about the potential for Europe to stand on its own two feet.

關於歐洲能夠獨立自主的潛力，已經有很多討論了。

certainly that Europe needs to be able to work in a sovereign manner wherever it can, across all kinds of domains.

當然，歐洲需要在所有領域都能以自主的方式運作。

What do you think that ESA and Europe would struggle with in the space industry if those international connections outside of Europe just vanished overnight due to whatever geopolitical crisis you could imagine?

你認為如果歐洲以外的國際連結，因為任何你想像得到的政治危機而瞬間消失，歐洲太空總署和歐洲在太空產業上會面臨哪些困難？

If they would vanish, that would certainly cause disruptions and costs.

如果消失了，那肯定會造成混亂和成本。

Therefore that means technology that is crucial would need to be built up with our own means, because today we have an international dependence.

是以，這意味著關鍵技術將需要靠我們自己的力量來建立，因為現今我們有國際依賴。

Let me mention the other way around also.

The United States, by far the largest space nation, having many capabilities and very impressive ones, is depending on Europe.

美國是目前為止最大的太空國家，擁有許多令人印象深刻的能力，但它卻依賴歐洲。

For example, in the Artemis program, the Orion capsule is powered by the European service module, which means that if you compare it with a car, it's the chassis and the car is built by the United States, but

例如，在 Artemis 計畫中，Orion 艙是由歐洲的服務模組提供動力，這意味著如果把它比喻成汽車，車體是美國製造的，但是

But I would say that the difficulties in geopolitics at the moment seem to not look at those practical concerns, but

但我會說，目前地緣政治的困難似乎不是在看這些實際的考量，而是

more are a case of the will of individual leaders to do what they will.

更多是個別領導人想做什麼就做什麼的意願問題。

let me also just be crystal clear that Europe has to step up, has to reinforce its capabilities, has to become stronger and therefore more independent and autonomous.

讓我說清楚，歐洲必須加把勁，必須強化自身能力，必須變得更強，進而更獨立、更自主。

And this message has really resonated with the decision makers and therefore the programs that I have proposed are doing exactly that.

這個訊息確實引起了決策者的共鳴，是以我提出的計畫正是要達成這個目標。

So yes, you're absolutely right, with all the international cooperation we have, and

所以，沒錯，你說得完全正確，儘管我們有這麼多國際合作，而且

we have very good partners internationally.

But it is crystal clear that Europe needs to reinforce its capabilities.

但很明顯，歐洲需要強化自身的能力。

And this is what we have been funding and now we have to do.

這也是我們一直以來資助的，現在我們必須付諸行動。

It must be a difficult situation for you to navigate, to kind of predict what might be happening here on Earth, to decide some of these long run projects that take many, many years and a lot of expertise and coordination, a lot of money to put together as for what requirements those may have in the future.

對你來說，這一定是很難處理的情況，要預測地球上可能發生的事，來決定那些需要數年、大量專業知識、協調和資金才能完成的長期計畫，以及它們未來可能會有什麼樣的需求。

Space projects do need a time frame of 10 years or even beyond in order to plan, build up and therefore use them.

太空計畫確實需要 10 年甚至更長的時間來規劃、建置和使用。

Take the space station as a good example.

以太空站為例，就是個很好的例子。

The space station has been initiated 25 years ago and is still running for another couple of years.

太空站是 25 年前啟動的，還能再運行幾年。

So it's a multi decade investment that you are making there.

Imagine the world in the year 20, because this is where we should go in order to build up the infrastructure that we need in order to make sure that in 2040 we're ready.

想像一下 2040 年的世界，因為我們必須朝這個方向努力，才能建立我們需要的基礎設施，確保我們在 2040 年做好準備。

But of course, making sure that while we build up the vision for 2040, we make sure that today's needs are met and we go into this direction in order to be well positioned and strengthen Europe through our activities that we do.

但當然，在規劃 2040 年願景的同時，我們也要確保滿足當前的需求，並朝這個方向邁進，透過我們的活動來鞏固歐洲。

Because what I really want to achieve through the European Space Agency is to elevate the future of Europe through space.

因為我透過歐洲太空總署真正想達成的是，透過太空提升歐洲的未來。

What does a launch capability for Europe need to fulfill?

歐洲的發射能力需要滿足什麼條件？

所以我們今天擁有所需的一切。

We have Ariane 6, which is the heavy lift launcher for Europe.

我們有 Ariane 6，這是歐洲的重型運載火箭。

It took a bit of time to get it on the launch pad, but

雖然它花了一些時間才登上發射臺，但

Actually, it has been the fastest ramp up of any heavy lift launcher that we achieved with Ariane 6.

事實上，這是我們用 Ariane 6 達成的，史上任何重型運載火箭最快的啟用速度。

We had the inaugural flight in July 2024.

我們在 2024 年 7 月進行了首次飛行。

For the first five flights, it took us 17 months.

前五次飛行，我們花了 17 個月。

And this shows that the engineering itself is quite skilled and is quite excellent.

這顯示了工程本身非常熟練且優秀。

Very proud actually of this ramp up speed, which is good, which is very good.

我其實對這個啟用速度感到非常自豪，這很好，非常好。

But it shows that Europe has the capability.

Yes, of course the Ariane 6 rocket is not reusable.

沒錯，當然，亞利安六號火箭是不可重複使用的。

And this is of course a huge difference to Falcon 9.

這當然跟獵鷹九號有很大的不同。

But we have already decided two years ago to create reusable rocket launchers in Europe.

但我們兩年前就已經決定要在歐洲開發可重複使用的火箭發射載具了。

And that's where we initiated, through a decision by all member states to have the next launcher after Riyan 6.

這就是我們透過所有會員國的決議，決定在亞利安六號之後，要開發下一個發射載具。

Not the same type of launcher as we have created now, but done completely differently.

不是跟我們現在開發的同一個類型的發射載具，而是以完全不同的方式來完成。

Where we give industry the initiative, they are very agile, very fast.

我們將主導權交給產業，他們非常靈活、非常快速。

But then your pledge is that the next launcher capability, next launcher program for Europe will be competitive directly with the next version that comes after Falcon 9 in the US.

但這就代表你們的承諾是，歐洲下一個發射載具的能力、下一個發射載具計畫，將能直接跟美國獵鷹九號的下一個版本競爭。

Of course, this is exactly what we want to achieve, to have a very competitive launcher.

當然，這正是我們想要達成的目標，要有一個非常有競爭力的發射載具。

I should probably remind all the viewers and listeners that about 10 years ago, Europe had a leading position with Ariane 5 in the launch capability.

我應該提醒所有觀眾和聽眾，大約十年前，歐洲在發射能力方面，憑藉亞利安五號，曾處於領先地位。

This now has to be regained and restarted, established.

這現在必須重新贏回並啟動，建立起來。

And yes, in the future we are working to have competitive launches not only within Europe, but

沒錯，未來我們會努力實現有競爭力的發射，不只在歐洲境內，

at the global market by the end of your time in office, which could be 2029, or who knows, it could be extended.

而是要在你們任期結束前，也就是 2029 年，或者誰知道呢，可能會延長，進入全球市場。

How will you have changed Europe's space industry and capabilities compared to where you started?

相較於您剛開始時，您將如何改變歐洲的太空產業和能力？

What would look like success by the end of your time in office and what would look like failure?

在您任期結束時，什麼樣的景象代表成功，什麼樣的景象代表失敗？

Space has become so strategic, so important, so commercially interesting that we have to really change gear, literally, and

太空變得如此具戰略意義、如此重要、如此商業上有吸引力，以至於我們必須真正改變模式，字面上的意思，並且

So by 20, I really hope to have a very robust space industry in Europe, much stronger than today, an increase of budgets that is much higher compared to the level today so that our companies are flourishing, succeeding, and

所以到 20XX 年，我真的希望歐洲能有一個非常強健的太空產業，比現在更強大，預算增加比現在高很多，這樣我們的公司就能蓬勃發展、成功，並且

really develop some of the best space infrastructure in the world.

真正開發出世界上最好的太空基礎設施。

That was a sneak preview of our podcast, the Dip.

這就是我們播客 The Dip 的搶先看。

And if you want to subscribe and get full episodes, then all you have to do is scan that little QR code that's on your screen right now.

如果你想訂閱並收聽完整節目，只要掃描螢幕上的這個小 QR code 就好了。

We'll be back same time, same place, with more.

我們一樣的時間、一樣的地點再見，還有更多內容。

Until then, thanks for checking out the Dip.

在那之前，謝謝你收聽 The Dip。