Name: 澤倫斯基在邁阿密與川普就俄烏和平協議展開會談 | DW 新聞 (Zelenskyy in Miami for talks with Trump on Russia-Ukraine peace deal | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-12-29T17:02:27.000Z
Duration: 5 min 21 s

Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky is holding talks in Florida with U.S. president Donald Trump this hour.

烏克蘭總統澤倫斯基這會兒正在佛羅裡達和美國總統川普進行會談。

The two leaders are discussing ways to end the war with Russia at Trump's Mar A Lago estate.

兩位領導人正在川普的馬阿拉歌莊園討論如何結束與俄羅斯的戰爭。

Prior to the meeting, Trump had what he called a productive telephone call with Russia's Vladimir Putin.

在這次會面前，川普曾與俄羅斯的弗拉基米爾·普丁進行了一次他稱之為富有成效的電話交談。

Here is some of what Trump and Zelensky had to say before the meeting got underway.

在會議開始前，川普和澤倫斯基說了一些話，內容大致如下。

There will be a security agreement, it will be a strong agreement and the European nations are very much involved in that.

會有一份安全協議，這將是一份強而有力的協議，歐洲國家也將深度參與其中。

They'll be very much involved in protection, et cetera.

他們將在保護等方面深度參與。

But the European nations have been really great.

不過歐洲國家真的做得非常棒。

They're very much in line with this meeting and getting a deal done.

他們非常支持這次會議，並致力於達成協議。

They all want to get it done and they've been very supportive.

他們都想完成這件事，而且一直以來都非常支持。

There are, they are in 20 points planned.

90%, by the way, was done by our two teams.

順帶一提，90%是由我們的兩個團隊完成的。

I think they made a great job, great work.

我認為他們做得非常棒，非常努力。

And yes, we will discuss these points also.

是的，我們也會討論這些要點。

And there are great economic benefits for Ukraine also because, you know, there's a lot of rebuilding to do, there's a lot of wealth to be had and they have great wealth, potentially.

這對烏克蘭來說也有巨大的經濟利益，因為你知道，有很多重建要做，有很多財富可以獲得，而且他們有巨大的財富潛力。

But there's a great economic benefit for Ukraine in what we're talking about President Trump.

但正如我們正在討論的川普總統，這對烏克蘭來說有巨大的經濟利益。

Earlier, I asked Rachel Rizzo from the Observer Research foundation what outcome we can hope for from the talks.

稍早，我問了觀察家研究基金會的 Rachel Rizzo，我們能從這些談判中期望什麼結果。

Well, I think the best outcome would be a scenario where Zelensky and Trump walk away with a better understanding of where both sides stands in the current situation in terms of where negotiate, where negotiations could potentially go and how far away a ceasefire potentially is now looking at the meetings between Trump and Zelensky in the past, the one in early 2025 really went off the rails in the Oval Office.

嗯，我認為最好的結果會是澤倫斯基和川普在當前局勢下，對雙方立場有了更深入的瞭解，知道可以協商哪些地方，協商潛在的走向，以及停火可能還有多遠。回顧川普和澤倫斯基過去的會面，2025年初那次在橢圓形辦公室的會談真的失控了。

對澤倫斯基來說，那次會面並不好。

The one where he met with Trump in October went better, although he didn't get the long range Tomahawk missiles that he was hoping for.

10月他與川普會面那次情況好一些，儘管他沒有拿到他希望的長程戰斧飛彈。

So let's see what happens in this meeting today at Mar a Lago.

所以，讓我們看看今天在馬阿拉歌的會面會發生什麼。

The hope is that there's one step closer to a cease fire, although it depends on where Russia is.

希望能朝停火更近一步，儘管這也取決於俄羅斯的態度。

And I don't think Russia is any closer than they have been in the past.

而且我不認為俄羅斯比過去更接近。

But how much closer are they to an actual deal?

但他們離達成真正的協議還有多遠？

我的意思是，這是一個28點計畫。

What are the biggest changes that you see that are promising at least?

你看到哪些最大的、至少是很有希望的改變？

I mean, I think the biggest changes that I've seen are, you know, looking at territorial integrity is the big one here.

我的意思是，我認為我看到最大的改變是，你知道的，領土完整性是這裡的重點。

So Russia has made pretty impressive gains over the eastern Donbas region.

所以俄羅斯在烏東頓巴斯地區取得了相當令人印象深刻的進展。

烏克蘭仍然掌控著大約20%的土地。

So the big question is, is Ukraine going to be willing to make some territorial concessions?

所以最大的問題是，烏克蘭是否願意做出一些領土讓步？

That's been a major sticking point and it seems like they are willing to do that at this point.

這一直是個主要的癥結點，而且看起來他們在這個階段是願意這樣做的。

Another big question, I think is control over the Zaporizhzhia nuclear power plant.

另一個大問題，我想是關於札波羅熱核電廠的控制權。

Of course, also bilateral security guarantees for Ukraine, Article 5, NATO level or NATO mod security guarantees coming from the United States and Europe as well.

當然，還有烏克蘭的雙邊安全保障，類似於北約第五條，來自美國和歐洲的北約級別或北約模式的安全保障。

Although Putin has made it clear he is not okay with any European troops on Ukrainian territory.

儘管普丁已經明確表示，他無法接受任何歐洲部隊出現在烏克蘭領土上。

So again, there's still major sticking points.

所以，再次強調，仍然存在重大的癥結點。

We're making slow progress, but I still think a real cease fire is still a ways away.

我們進展緩慢，但我仍然認為真正的停火還有很長一段路要走。

And what do you think about this point about Ukraine not being able to join NATO but having some sort of security guarantees that that mirror the benefits of being part of the alliance?

你怎麼看烏克蘭不能加入北約，但卻能獲得一些類似於聯盟成員國的好處的安全保障的這一點？

I mean, I think this is a pretty good outcome for Ukraine.

我的意思是，我認為這對烏克蘭來說是一個相當不錯的結果。

As someone you know, I've watched the Naito enlargement debate for years at this point.

說到我認識的人，我對北約擴張的辯論已經關注好幾年了。

And of course there is an open door policy for NATO membership, although it was never guaranteed or even agreed upon by members on whether or not Ukraine should ever be a member.

當然，北約有開放會員國的政策，不過會員國之間從來沒有確定或同意烏克蘭是否應該加入。

It was a major sticking point for the alliance as well, just for Ukraine, not just for Russia.

這對聯盟來說也是一個重大的癥結點，不只是對俄羅斯，也是對烏克蘭。

And so I think that that keeping that door open for Ukraine was actually creating more tension for the country as time went.

所以我認為，對烏克蘭敞開這扇門，反而隨著時間推移，為這個國家製造了更多緊張。

So I think if NATO is off the table, having bilateral security guarantees that look like Naito's security guarantees are about as good as we're going to get now.

所以我認為，如果北約選項不在考慮範圍內，擁有類似北約安全保障的雙邊安全協議，就已經是我們能得到的最好的了。

So I think that's a good thing for them and it's something that they should walk away proud with.

所以我認為這對他們來說是好事，也是他們應該感到自豪的。

Another issue that we're looking at is potential EU membership.

我們正在關注的另一個問題是潛在的歐盟會員國資格。

I think that's a major sticking point as well.

我認為這也是一個重大的癥結點。

That's even hard than I think NATO membership is.

這甚至比我認為的北約會員國資格還要困難。

So a lot of membership in international organizations, I think that's on the table, but

所以我想，許多國際組織的會員資格，我認為都在考慮範圍內，但

Major Rizzo, thank you very much for your time.

Major Rizzo，非常感謝您撥冗受訪。