Name: 與哈佛大學前辯論教練徐博一起訓練辯論技巧 (Train for any argument with Harvard’s former debate coach | Bo Seo)
Uploaded: 2025-07-08T10:49:51.000Z
Duration: 11 min 51 s

Our public conversations are in a state of crisis.

我們的公共對話正處於危機之中。

程度副詞

It's people fully convinced of their views shouting at each other from a distance.

這是對自己的觀點深信不疑的人在遠處互相叫嚷。

One of the reasons why we find it so difficult is, I believe, because the skills of good argument have been atrophying for some time.

我認為，我們感到如此困難的原因之一是，好的辯論技巧已經萎縮了一段時間。

We no longer view argument as something to be worked at.

我們不再將爭論視為需要努力的事情。

Rather, we see it as something we jump into out of instinct or defensiveness.

相反，在我們看來，這是出於本能或防衛心理而做出的選擇。

The bad arguments that result decrease our confidence in what disagreements can do for us.

由此產生的不良爭論會降低我們的信心，讓我們不相信分歧能為我們帶來什麼。

So the quality of the conversation further degrades.

是以，談話的品質會進一步下降。

I think we need to restore confidence and faith in what disagreements can be and to highlight its potential as a source for good as well as a source for ill.

我認為，我們需要恢復對分歧的信心和信念，並強調分歧既可能帶來好處，也可能帶來壞處。

I'm a two-time world debate champion, a former coach of the Australian and Harvard debate teams, and I am the author of Good Arguments.

我是兩屆世界辯論賽冠軍，曾任澳洲和哈佛辯論隊教練，著有《好辯》一書。

For me, my love of debate is inextricably tied to a life that I've led of always moving countries.

對我來說，我對辯論的熱愛與我不斷搬家的生活密不可分。

I had to move from South Korea to Australia as an eight-year-old without really speaking English.

八歲時，我不得不從韓國搬到澳洲，當時我還不會說英語。

And I quickly found the hardest part of crossing language lines of cultural lines was disagreements, where people tend to be more disruptive, to interrupt, to speed up and slow down.

我很快發現，跨越語言界限和文化界限最困難的部分就是意見分歧，人們往往會在意見分歧時更愛搗亂、打斷別人的話、加快或放慢速度。

In response to all that, I resolved to be very agreeable in the way in which I presented at school and to keep my thoughts to myself.

面對這一切，我決心在學校裡表現得非常合群，並把自己的想法藏在心裡。

The thing that changed that was I joined the debate team of the strength of one promise, which was that in debate, when one person speaks, no one else does.

改變這一切的是我加入辯論隊時的一個承諾，那就是在辯論中，只要有一個人發言，其他人就不會發言。

And to someone who had been interrupted and spun out of conversation, that sounded to me like a kind of salvation.

對於一個曾被打斷談話並被打斷的人來說，這聽起來像是一種救贖。

If intelligence is the ability to respond to any argument, wisdom lies in knowing which arguments to respond to and which parts of an argument to respond to.

如果說智力是對任何論點做出迴應的能力，那麼智慧則在於知道該對哪些論點做出迴應，以及該對論點的哪些部分做出迴應。

Arguments are easy to start and hard to end because there are any number of differences between two people.

爭論很容易開始，也很難結束，因為兩個人之間存在著各種各樣的分歧。

And unless you're careful to say, we're having this disagreement at this moment and not the other way around, all the other disagreements we could be having.

除非你小心翼翼地說，我們此刻有這樣的分歧，而不是相反，否則我們可能會有其他的分歧。

All of the differences between two people can start flooding in.

兩個人之間的所有差異都會湧上心頭。

And the argument becomes this unruly mass where any of the potential sources of conflict can come to the fore and you're not making progress on any given one.

這樣一來，爭論就成了一團亂麻，任何潛在的衝突根源都可能凸顯出來，而你卻無法在任何一個問題上取得進展。

One of the frameworks that I developed in order to pick my fights more wisely is called the RISA framework.

為了更明智地選擇戰鬥，我開發了一個框架，叫做 RISA 框架。

Before launching into a disagreement or challenging a claim, ask four things.

在提出異議或質疑之前，先問四件事。

First, whether the disagreement is in fact real as opposed to a misunderstanding.

首先，分歧是否確實存在，而不是誤解。

Second is to ask whether it's important enough to you to justify the disagreement.

其次，要問這個問題對你來說是否足夠重要，足以證明分歧是合理的。

The third is to ask whether the topic of disagreement is specific enough in order for you to make some progress.

第三，要問分歧的主題是否足夠具體，以便你們取得一些進展。

And the fourth is to ask whether you and the other person engaged in the disagreement are aligned in your objectives for wanting to partake in that conversation.

第四，要問你和參與分歧的另一方在想要參與對話的目標上是否一致。

By checking off on these four lists, you can't guarantee that a conversation is going to go well, but you may be able to give it the best possible chance of doing so.

通過勾選這四項清單，你不能保證對話一定會順利進行，但你也許能給對話帶來最好的機會。

One of the limitations of the RISA framework that I worry about is that it is increasingly difficult to find the right kind of alignment in people's interest for wanting to engage in a disagreement.

我擔心的 RISA 框架的侷限性之一是，人們越來越難以找到正確的利益契合點來參與分歧。

So if you have two sides that simply want to hurt one another's feelings, that's some kind of alignment, but not the right kind that leads to productive conversations.

是以，如果雙方都只想傷害彼此的感情，這也是某種程度上的一致，但並不是導致富有成效對話的正確一致。

So one place where you might be able to apply the RISA framework is getting together with extended family for Thanksgiving or Christmas and knowing that some of the personal or political disagreements are going to bubble up to the surface.

是以，您或許可以應用 RISA 框架的一個地方是，在感恩節或聖誕節與大家庭聚在一起，並知道一些個人或政治分歧會浮出水面。

The RISA framework provides two sources of help in that situation.

在這種情況下，RISA 框架提供了兩種幫助。

The first is that every disagreement should start with a little bit of agreement.

首先，每一個分歧都應從一點共識開始。

And that is often naming exactly what it is that you disagree about so that it doesn't bubble up into all the different areas in which you don't see eye to eye.

而這往往就是要準確地說出你們的分歧所在，這樣就不會讓分歧蔓延到你們意見不一致的各個領域。

First step is to name the disagreement in front of you.

The second thing is to check, well, why do you want to engage in this disagreement?

第二件事是檢查一下，你為什麼想參與這場分歧？

And can we come to an agreement about what it is that we're hoping to get out of this conversation?

我們能就這次對話的目的達成一致嗎？

So forcing the slightly quarrelsome family member who just wants to be a contrarian or to cause trouble to say, are you really in this hoping to persuade me to change my mind?

是以，對於那些稍有爭吵、只想唱反調或製造麻煩的家庭成員來說，強迫他們說，你真的是在希望說服我改變主意嗎？

That bit of negotiation of why it is that we're in the conversation in the first instance can often allow our conversations to go better than if we just jump into the disagreements without much forethought.

如果我們一開始就想好為什麼要進行對話，這一點往往會讓我們的對話比沒有經過深思熟慮就直接進入分歧的對話更順利。

It allows us to almost make a contract with the other side.

它讓我們幾乎可以與對方簽訂合同。

This is what we're disagreeing about and these are the reasons why we're engaging in that dispute.

這就是我們的分歧所在，這就是我們進行爭論的原因。

And one of the things that you can do with someone who tries to break those rules, to expand the debate into something it wasn't about, to change the topic, to introduce new reasons for wanting to engage in the dispute is just to remind ourselves of the agreement that we made and to bring the conversation back to those parameters.

如果有人試圖打破這些規則，把辯論擴大到本來不是辯論的內容，改變話題，提出新的理由來引起爭議，你可以做的事情之一就是提醒我們自己，我們已經達成了協議，讓對話回到這些參數上。

Just as any number of the differences between two people can give rise to a disagreement, any number of things that people say within an argument can be contested.

正如兩個人之間的任何差異都可能導致分歧一樣，人們在爭論中所說的任何話都可能引起爭議。

The success cases, these are the ones in which the revolution works.

成功的案例，就是革命成功的案例。

Closing, I'll take you if you have something.

關門，如果你有東西，我就帶你走。

And a part of the wisdom one has to develop as a debater is to know which arguments to challenge and which to let go.

作為一名辯論者，必須具備的智慧之一就是知道哪些論點應該質疑，哪些論點應該放棄。

A Marxist revolution at this point doesn't change that.

在這一點上，馬克思主義革命不會改變這一點。

And it will lead to a huge period of economic instability that will take away their world.

這將導致一個巨大的經濟不穩定時期，奪走他們的世界。

If we're to buy the premise of their case at all, there are two questions that we often ask to make that decision.

如果我們完全相信他們的前提，那麼我們在做出決定時通常會問兩個問題。

The first is, is this disagreement between the two sides necessary to resolve in order to make progress in the argument?

第一個問題是，為了在爭論中取得進展，是否有必要解決雙方之間的這一分歧？

And if it's not, is us challenging it going to help us make progress on the overall dispute?

如果不是，我們提出質疑是否有助於我們在整個爭端中取得進展？

No matter how offensive or wrong-seeming it may be, by asking whether it's first necessary to challenge, or even if it's not, whether challenging it would help us make progress on the argument, you can be a little bit more judicious in how you disagree and prevent our arguments from becoming this unruly, all-encompassing dispute.

無論它多麼令人反感或看似錯誤，只要先問一下是否有必要提出質疑，或者即使沒有必要，提出質疑是否有助於我們在爭論中取得進展，你就可以在提出異議時更明智一些，避免我們的爭論變成這種無序的、無所不包的爭論。

One of the great lessons of debate is, in order to be heard, you have to first listen.

辯論的一個重要經驗是，要想讓別人聽到你的聲音，你必須先傾聽。

We're used to thinking about listening as an essentially passive act.

我們習慣於認為傾聽本質上是一種被動行為。

We sit back in our chairs and take it all in.

我們坐在椅子上，靜靜地欣賞這一切。

Debaters know that it's a much more active process than that.

辯論者知道，這是一個比這更積極的過程。

There are two lessons that we can take away from how debaters listen and to try and apply it in our own lives.

我們可以從辯論者如何傾聽中汲取兩個教訓，並嘗試將其運用到自己的生活中。

The first is, it is in your best interest to understand the opposition's arguments as they would understand it.

首先，理解反對方的論點對你最有利，因為他們會這樣理解。

It's not in your best interest to twist their meaning or to take it at its worst or to capture only a fraction of it because they won't feel as though they had been listened to and heard and ultimately responded to.

曲解他們的意思，或者從最糟糕的角度去理解，或者只捕捉其中的一小部分，都不符合你的最佳利益，因為他們不會覺得自己被傾聽了，被聽到了，並最終得到了迴應。

The second thing is, it's also in your best interest to respond to the strongest version of the other side and sometimes to build up the other side's case so that it's even better than where they have it now.

第二件事是，迴應對方最有力的說法，有時還可以加強對方的論據，使其比現在的論據更好，這也符合你的最佳利益。

You know after you finish speaking, the opposition might have a light bulb and come up with a better case or someone on their side might say, you've responded to the weak version of this argument, but here's something better.

你知道，在你說完之後，對手可能會靈光一現，提出一個更好的理由，或者他們一方的人可能會說，你已經迴應了這個論點的薄弱版本，但這裡有更好的東西。

So the further you can take it and the stronger the version of the other side you can respond to, the more you challenge the other side to go even further and the better the conversation becomes.

是以，你能做得越多，你能迴應的對方版本越強，你就越能挑戰對方，讓對方走得更遠，對話也就越精彩。

So much of debate is an exercise in certainty.

It's about spending sometimes weeks researching your side of the case, coming up with the best possible arguments that you can to sell the truth of your side to the listener.

有時，你需要花上幾周的時間來研究你的觀點，提出儘可能好的論據，向聽眾推銷你的觀點。

But in the last moments before a debater goes on stage, they know to take out a new sheet of paper and to put themselves in their opponent's shoes.

但在辯論者上臺前的最後一刻，他們知道要拿出一張新的紙，設身處地地為對手著想。

And write the four best arguments for the opposing side.

They know also to look over their case again, this time through the eyes of someone who fervently disagrees with them, to identify all of the flaws and the criticisms that could be leveled against them.

他們還知道要再次審視自己的案例，這次是通過熱切反對他們的人的眼睛，找出所有的缺陷和可能對他們提出的責備。

Debaters also know to imagine a world in which they lost the debate and to come up with the reasons why they did.

辯手們還知道想象一個他們輸掉辯論的世界，並提出輸掉辯論的原因。

Those exercises, which are called the side switch exercises, puts a pause on that feeling of certainty.

這些練習被稱為 "側向轉換練習"，能讓人暫停這種確定感。

It makes us feel for a moment the subjective reasonableness of other people's beliefs.

它讓我們暫時感受到他人信仰的主觀合理性。

It gives us that moment where we get back on our toes and think maybe we missed something.

這讓我們重新振作起來，思考也許我們錯過了什麼。

It makes us imagine a world in which we're wrong.

它讓我們想象一個我們錯了的世界。

And all of that creates a wriggle room through which something like humility or empathy might arise.

所有這一切都創造了一個迴旋的餘地，通過這個餘地，謙遜或同情之類的東西可能會產生。

The side switch exercises and the kind of empathy that debate brings into the conversation is not only applicable in personal disagreements, but in my view, more urgently needed than ever in our political disputes and ideological commitments.

辯論所帶來的換位思考和換位思考不僅適用於個人分歧，而且在我看來，在我們的政治爭端和意識形態承諾中，比以往任何時候都更迫切需要這種換位思考和換位思考。

Each of us are bigger than our political affiliations, than our religious commitments, than our ideological beliefs.

我們每個人都比我們的政治派別、宗教承諾和意識形態信仰更重要。

It's in that setting that exercises like side switch become most effective.

在這種情況下，像側向轉換這樣的練習才最有效。

It expands the scope of what we are able to talk about.

它擴大了我們能夠討論的範圍。

It enlarges and improves and strengthens our ability to talk about contentious and difficult issues in humane, compassionate and productive ways.

它擴大、改善和加強了我們以人道、富有同情心和富有成效的方式談論有爭議和困難問題的能力。

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要想從世界上最偉大的思想家那裡學到更多，請為您的企業獲取 Big Think Plus。