Name: 現在是給共和黨參議員打電話的時候了七名共和黨人在關稅問題上與特朗普決裂 (‘Now is the time to call Republican senators’: Seven Republicans break with Trump over tariffs)
Uploaded: 2025-04-08T02:50:28.000Z
Duration: 9 min 30 s

As promised joining me now is Senator Elizabeth Warren of Massachusetts.

按照約定，馬薩諸塞州參議員伊麗莎白-沃倫（Elizabeth Warren）現在將加入我的節目。

She's the ranking Democrat on the Senate Banking Committee She also sits in the Senate Finance Committee.

她是參議院銀行委員會排名第一的民主黨人，也是參議院金融委員會成員。

轉承詞

She knows how to talk about and explain these issues better than anyone I know we're in Professor Warren's class right now a little bit So let me start there because I really a lot of people are just digesting this around the country and you know today Trump said that maybe some of the tariffs could be permanent We don't know that to be the case, but just help us understand what the impact of that could be So understand it this way Donald Trump has done Massive tariffs and this comes from someone who actually believes that tariffs are an important tool in our economic toolbox There are good times to use it.

她比任何人都知道如何談論和解釋這些問題，我知道我們現在正在沃倫教授的課堂上，所以讓我從這裡開始，因為我真的有很多人正在全國各地消化這個問題，你知道今天特朗普說，也許有些關稅可能是永久性的，我們不知道情況是否如此，但只要幫助我們瞭解這可能會產生什麼影響，所以要這樣理解唐納德-特朗普已經做了大規模的關稅，這來自一個真正相信關稅是我們經濟工具箱中的重要工具的人。

We want to onshore a supply chain that we want to protect We want to make more pharmaceuticals here.

我們希望在岸上保護供應鏈，我們希望在這裡生產更多的藥品。

We want to make more cars here But you do this very carefully and you do it in combination with things you're doing domestically to support So that work actually gets done not Donald Trump comes in and basically starts the dumbest trade war in the history of this country and Then when the markets respond when people respond by saying, oh my god, this changes everything I do And now we have economists out there debating.

我們想在這裡生產更多的汽車，但你要非常小心地做這件事，而且要與你在國內所做的事情結合起來，以支持這些工作，而不是唐納德-特朗普上臺後，基本上發動了這個國家歷史上最愚蠢的貿易戰，然後當市場做出反應時，當人們做出反應說，哦，我的上帝，這改變了我所做的一切，現在我們有經濟學家在那裡辯論。

We have Goldman Sachs Jamie Dimon saying yeah, I think we're already there You are quoting some of the folks the head of the Fed on Friday saying prices are going to go up and Unemployment can go up at the same time, which is the worst of all worlds.

高盛集團的傑米-戴蒙（Jamie Dimon）說，是的，我認為我們已經在那裡了，你引用了一些人的話，美聯儲主席週五說，物價將上漲，失業率可能同時上升，這是世界上最糟糕的情況。

So that's all the big noise But the way this hits families one household at a time This is going to be about potentially millions of people losing their jobs It's going to be about millions of people losing their savings many of people losing their retirement security And at the same time taking on even higher costs for everything they buy so that's going to push us in potentially to foreclosures or People being pushed out of their apartments You know, I remember this from 2008 and how long it took us to dig our way out and to this day There are families.

是以，這只是一個大的噪音，但它對家庭的影響卻是一個家庭一個家庭的，這將可能導致數百萬人失去工作，數百萬人失去儲蓄，許多人失去退休保障，與此同時，他們購買的所有東西的成本都會更高，是以，這將可能導致我們取消抵押品贖回權，或者人們被擠出公寓，你知道，我記得2008年的時候，我們花了多長時間才走出困境，直到今天，還有一些家庭。

There are communities that still haven't recovered Recessions can be all those fancy charts and graphs But at the end of the day people feel them one person at a time and they can be devastated I was thinking of you today and was so grateful You were able to come on because one of the and I just read this but Mark Cuban posted this today He said if the new tariffs stay in place for multiple years and are enforced and inflationary and Doge continues to cut and fire Which is also having an impact on the economy.

我今天一直在想你，非常感謝你能來參加節目，因為我剛剛讀到馬克-庫班（Mark Cuban）今天發佈的這篇文章，他說，如果新關稅持續多年並強制執行，並引發通脹，Doge 繼續削減和解僱員工，這也會對經濟產生影響。

We will be in a far worse situation than 2008 I mean, I think I first met you when you were one of the loudest and boldest voices during that period of time Do you feel that way too?

我們的處境會比 2008 年糟糕得多 我是說，我想我第一次見到你時，你正是那段時期最響亮、最大膽的聲音之一 你也有這種感覺嗎？

You know, I am very worried and I'm worried because these tariffs are coming in exactly like Cuban points out At a time when the economy has already absorbed one body blow after another Look at all the people around the country that have already been fired by Doge or who are afraid That when they show up tomorrow for work, they're going to be thrown out Look at all the cuts for example to our medical research and scientific research So all those contracts are being pulled back cuts that are going into our public schools, which means little towns Across Massachusetts and big cities saying wait a minute.

你知道，我非常擔心，我擔心的是這些關稅的到來，就像庫班指出的那樣，在經濟已經遭受一次又一次打擊的時候，看看全國各地所有已經被Doge解僱的人，或者那些害怕明天去上班時會被趕走的人，看看所有的削減，例如對我們的醫學研究和科學研究的削減，所以所有這些合同都被撤回了，削減了我們的公立學校，這意味著馬薩諸塞州的小城鎮和大城市都在說等等。

We're not going to be able to hold our budgets together here So who do we lay off?

我們無法在這裡維持預算，那麼我們要裁掉誰呢？

How do we manage to keep these pieces going all of this occurring at the same moment that?

我們怎樣才能在同一時刻讓所有這些事情都繼續下去？

Donald Trump just comes in and Declares that he's gonna turn over the economy on top of small businesses That are already pushed tight to the edge on top of lots of people already losing their jobs Okay by now I hope you've seen the massive historic crowds that turned out across the country this weekend to protest Donald Trump in Cities like Boston, New York, Los Angeles and DC all those places.

唐納德-特朗普剛剛上臺，就宣佈他將顛覆經濟，而小企業已經被逼到了絕境，很多人已經失去了工作。好了，現在我希望你們已經看到了本週末全國各地出現的大規模歷史性人群，他們在波士頓、紐約、洛杉磯和華盛頓特區等城市抗議唐納德-特朗普。

You can see him on the screen The turnout was enormous some crowds even rivaling or surpassing the size of the Women's March in 2017 But what really stood out this time at least to me were the protests happening in parts of the country that are a bit redder Take a look at Salt Lake City, Utah That's thousands of people at the steps of the state capitol on April 5th When you need a drone to capture a full crowd protesting a Republican president in Utah That's a big deal in Columbus, Ohio JD Vance's home state hundreds came out in the pouring rain in Every major swing state some of which many of which Donald Trump won, North Carolina, Georgia, Maine, Arizona Fired up crowds turned out in big big numbers and it didn't stop there Tulsa, Oklahoma Billings, Montana Sioux Falls, South Dakota people showed up with a clear urgent message hands off our country Honestly pick a state any state Google hands off and you'll find that even the reddest corners of the reddest states Turned out in force and Senator Elizabeth Warren is back with me So you were in Tennessee this weekend was just not what most people would envision What was it like there in your when you were visiting and what do you think of these crowds?

你可以在螢幕上看到他 參加人數眾多，有些人群甚至可以與 2017 年的 "婦女大遊行 "相媲美，甚至超過其規模，但這次真正引人注目的是，至少對我來說，是發生在該國一些較紅的地區的抗議活動、4 月 5 日，在猶他州州議會大廈的臺階上，有數千人在抗議共和黨總統，你需要一架無人機才能捕捉到滿滿的人群。 這在俄亥俄州哥倫布市是一件大事，JD Vance 的家鄉，在每個主要搖擺州，都有數百人冒著傾盆大雨前來抗議，其中許多州唐納德-特朗普都贏了、北卡羅來納州、佐治亞州、緬因州、亞利桑那州 人群熱情高漲，人數眾多 還不

I think people are tuned in and they really care People were there to tell their stories to talk about what's happening to them But they were also there to say what can we do?

我認為人們很關注，他們真的很關心 人們在那裡講述他們的故事，談論發生在他們身上的事情，但他們也在那裡說我們能做些什麼？

We got this because they were determined they were ready to fight back boy They were on their feet about tax cuts for billionaires About taking away support for Social Security and the cuts in the Social Security Administration They were there to talk about don't take away health care from little babies through Medicaid Don't take away the promises we made to our veterans with Veterans Administration And I'll tell you one that really got him on their feet and that was don't cut help to our public schools Whoa, people were fired up.

他們在那裡談論不要通過醫療補助（Medicaid）剝奪小寶寶的醫療保健，不要通過退伍軍人管理局（Veterans Administration）剝奪我們對退伍軍人的承諾。

Yes schools, but I'm happy to hear that people are so tuned in.

是的，學校，但我很高興聽到人們如此關注。

Oh, they were ready We were just talking I think sometimes after an election where your party loses you people feel hopeless.

哦，他們已經準備好了，我們只是在哈拉，我想有時在選舉之後，如果你所在的政黨輸了，人們就會感到絕望。

They feel powerless They are not hope they shouldn't be hopeless They are not powerless, but these are a reminder out there of the power of people and Republicans Are watching them right?

他們感到無能為力，他們不是希望，他們不應該無望，他們不是無能為力，但這些都在提醒人們和共和黨人的力量。

So one of the things we talked about I said Call your senator call your rep and I said I'm before you tell me Oh, I've done that and it didn't do any good.

是以，我們談到的其中一件事是，我說給你的參議員打電話，給你的眾議員打電話，我說在你告訴我之前，我已經打過電話了，但沒什麼用。

All I have to say to you is Wednesday It was Wednesday when we saw the first crack in the Republican senators and Trump wall and that was when those Republicans crossed the aisle on the tariff question And I said and the second thing you got to do is you gotta go out there and Organize and before you tell me organizing doesn't work.

我要對你們說的是，星期三，當我們看到共和黨參議員和特朗普的牆出現第一道裂縫時，也就是那些共和黨人在關稅問題上跨過過道的時候，我說，你們要做的第二件事就是走出去，組織起來，在你們告訴我組織不起作用之前。

I'll say to you Tuesday because it was Tuesday in Wisconsin where good old Elon Musk had shown up with his 25 million dollars in cheese hat and Evidently made the election go even stronger for Democrats by doing that and that was because people organized And now the heart of it is tell your stories Get out there and tell your stories the Republicans want to give tax breaks to billionaires and they want to pay for it on the backs of your kids and your grandma and Your friend down the street who has a disability and your neighbors You've got to tell these stories because remember 2017 You remember?

我想說的是週二，因為週二在威斯康星州，老好人埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）帶著他那頂裝有2500萬美元的奶酪帽子出現在那裡，顯然，他的這一舉動讓民主黨人的選舉更加順利，這是因為人們組織起來了，而現在的核心是講述你們的故事。

We didn't have control Democrats did not have control of the house the Republicans did Republicans had control of the Senate and Donald Trump was in the White House and they were determined to kill health care For tens of millions of people that bill passed the house easily They all went off and celebrated it came to the Senate and it was people who told stories Who brought their babies who depend on that health care who brought in seniors who depend on that health care Told their personal stories in Washington and all across the country and you remember that night It came down.

我們沒有控制權 民主黨沒有控制眾議院，共和黨控制了參議院，唐納德-特朗普入主白宮，他們決心扼殺數千萬人的醫療保健，該法案在眾議院輕鬆通過，他們都去慶祝它來到參議院，它是人們講述的故事，誰帶來了他們的嬰兒，誰依賴於醫療保健，誰帶來了老年人，誰依賴於醫療保健，在華盛頓和全國各地講述他們的個人故事，你還記得那天晚上它下來。

No, it came down to one vote and it was when Good old John McCain Had listened to those stories and voted no and saved health care for tens of millions of Americans That's the power of what we do together You

不，最後只剩下一票，那就是老好人約翰-麥凱恩 聽了這些故事，投了反對票，挽救了數千萬美國人的醫療保健 這就是我們共同行動的力量 你

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現在是給共和黨參議員打電話的時候了七名共和黨人在關稅問題上與特朗普決裂 (‘Now is the time to call Republican senators’: Seven Republicans break with Trump over tariffs)

massive

debate

determine

potentially