Name: 在家工作的未來是什麼？- 全球故事》播客，BBC 全球服務 (What is the future of working from home? - The Global Story podcast, BBC World Service)
Uploaded: 2025-02-16T02:54:20.000Z
Duration: 20 min 55 s

Hi there, I'm Catriona Perry, and this is The Global Story.

大家好，我是卡特里娜-佩裡，這裡是《全球故事》。

過去簡單式

At the height of the COVID-19 pandemic, the working world went through a revolution.

在 COVID-19 大流行的高峰期，勞動世界經歷了一場革命。

to 不定詞

Workers, particularly white-collar office workers, were ordered to work from home to stop the spread of the virus, and it seemed like a permanent change.

工人，尤其是辦公室白領，被命令在家工作，以阻止病毒傳播，這似乎是一個永久性的改變。

Hybrid working has remained incredibly popular years after the COVID lockdowns were lifted.

在 COVID 解除限制多年後，混合工作方式仍然非常流行。

But now, more and more companies are ordering employees back to work.

但現在，越來越多的公司開始命令員工返回工作崗位。

And many employers have slammed working from home as inefficient and bad for the bottom line.

許多僱主抨擊在家辦公效率低下，不利於企業發展。

So is the work-from-home revolution over now?

那麼，在家工作的革命現在結束了嗎？

Joining me from London is the BBC's employment correspondent, Zoe Conway.

英國廣播公司（BBC）就業記者佐伊-康韋（Zoe Conway）正在倫敦為您報道。

And also with me, Nick Bloom, an economist at Stanford University in the US, who has studied the effect that all of this is having on productivity.

和我在一起的還有美國斯坦福大學的經濟學家尼克-布魯姆（Nick Bloom），他研究了這一切對生產力的影響。

Now, before we go any further, I just want to establish the status here.

現在，在我們進一步討論之前，我只想確定一下這裡的狀況。

Are you working from home or in the office?

您是在家工作還是在辦公室工作？

I'm actually at home, although I have to say, for me, it's eight in the morning.

其實我在家裡，不過我得說，對我來說，現在是早上八點。

But right now, yes, this is this is the spare bedroom.

但現在，沒錯，這裡就是備用臥室。

But ordinarily, you're in the office full time?

但通常情況下，你會全職在辦公室工作嗎？

So I teach obviously students because I'm a Stanford.

顯然，我教學生是因為我是斯坦福大學的學生。

But I do spend a couple of days a week on Zoom, you know, taking calls, working from home.

但我每週會花幾天時間在 Zoom 上，你知道，接聽電話，在家工作。

我今天肯定會去英國廣播公司。

I work with a team of incredibly clever, interesting and funny people.

我的團隊成員都非常聰明、有趣、風趣。

And I like the camaraderie of the office.

But I travel around the UK for work quite a lot as well.

但我也經常因工作需要在英國各地出差。

OK, so we've established where you both stand on the working from home.

好了，我們已經確定了你們在在家工作問題上的立場。

I obviously I'm not working from home, can't be a presenter and work from home, unfortunately, although I did suggest it from time to time during the pandemic.

很顯然，我沒有在家工作，當不了主持人，也不能在家工作，很遺憾，儘管在大流行病期間，我確實不時提出過這樣的建議。

But before the pandemic, I was working here in the US.

但在大流行之前，我在美國工作。

And I mean, it was really very rare in this country that you would have encountered anyone really working from home.

我的意思是，在這個國家，真正在家工作的人非常罕見。

Nick, are there certain countries or certain industries that have always had this tradition of remote working or working from home?

尼克，是否有某些國家或某些行業一直有遠程辦公或在家辦公的傳統？

So tech has always been pretty work from home friendly.

是以，科技行業一直都很適合在家工作。

So you can think of, you know, if you're on a keyboard using computers, you often don't need to be in the office.

是以，你可以想一想，如果你在鍵盤上使用電腦，你往往不需要在辦公室裡。

You know, it's also actually interesting that a lot of English speaking countries, it's not clear why, but you're right.

你知道嗎，很多英語國家的情況也很有趣，雖然不清楚原因，但你說得沒錯。

Northern Europe, you know, Canada, UK, Australia, New Zealand have been pretty high.

北歐，如加拿大、英國、澳洲、紐西蘭，這些國家的增長率一直很高。

We tend to see the lowest levels are in Asia.

我們發現，最低水平往往出現在亞洲。

So there are big international differences.

So Asian, you know, typically back in the office pretty much full time.

所以，亞洲人，你知道的，一般都會全職回到辦公室。

But Northern Europe, US, we still see tech, some finance working from home two, three days a week.

但在北歐和美國，我們仍能看到科技人員和一些金融人員每週在家工作兩三天。

But of course, everything changed for everyone, didn't it?

當然，每個人的一切都變了，不是嗎？

In the spring of 2020, with the arrival of this thing we'd never heard of before, COVID-19 and the pandemic and how that changed everything at that time.

2020 年春天，隨著我們從未聽說過的 COVID-19 和大流行病的到來，它改變了當時的一切。

Governments rushing to announce stay at home orders, lockdowns to try and keep everyone away from each other, limit the number of infections.

政府急忙宣佈留在家中的命令，封鎖消息，試圖讓每個人都遠離彼此，限制感染人數。

We were told at the time to keep the hospitals from getting overloaded and to get everyone safe.

我們當時被告知，要防止醫院超負荷運轉，確保所有人的安全。

And suddenly employers had to adapt to a situation where their employees could not come into work.

突然之間，僱主們不得不適應員工無法上班的局面。

Zoe, tell us a little bit about that transition.

佐伊，給我們講講這種轉變吧。

Who was working from home and who wasn't?

It was the most incredible adjustment for so many of us.

對我們許多人來說，這是最不可思議的調整。

There were all these forms of technology we'd never used before, whether it's Zoom calls or team chats, that some of us are still fairly useless at using, certainly in my unit.

無論是 Zoom 通話還是團隊哈拉，我們以前從未使用過這些形式的技術。

是以，這是一次令人難以置信的調整。

And I think what we're seeing in many cases in the UK are people who have learnt that they can be very productive at home and that they can juggle it very successfully with, you know, perhaps raising a young family or looking after elderly relatives.

我認為，在英國的許多情況下，我們看到的是一些人已經認識到，他們可以在家裡大有作為，他們可以在養育小家庭或照顧年邁親屬的同時，非常成功地兼顧家庭。

And so there's a lot more flexibility that we're seeing.

是以，我們看到了更多的靈活性。

But I think there's still a huge amount of uncertainty here in the UK about whether we're going to see a big switch back.

但我認為，在英國，我們是否會看到一個大的轉變，仍然存在著巨大的不確定性。

Because as well as having more time with your family and your children, I mean, there are other benefits for people from working from home as well, financially, commuting time.

因為除了有更多時間陪伴家人和孩子，我的意思是，在家工作對人們還有其他好處，比如經濟上的好處，通勤時間的好處。

Now, that is right in the heart of the city in London.

It's the sort of place where you're going to see a lot of people very smartly dressed, walking incredibly fast to get to their law firm or their bank where they work.

在這種地方，你會看到很多人衣著光鮮，走得飛快，趕往他們工作的律師事務所或銀行。

And we went on a Thursday morning and we went again on a Friday morning during rush hour.

我們是在週四上午去的，週五上午高峰時段又去了一次。

And the data shows that now on a Friday, if you go to Bank Underground Station, you'll see that the commuters are roughly at just just over half what they were before the pandemic.

數據顯示，現在的週五，如果你去班克地鐵站，你會發現乘客人數大概只有大流行前的一半多一點。

And on that point, I mean, individuals might save because they can make their lunch at home.

關於這一點，我的意思是，個人可能會因為可以在家做午餐而節省開支。

They're not spending on fuel for their cars, train tickets and so on.

他們不會把錢花在汽車燃料、火車票等方面。

But what's been the economic impact on businesses from this situation where people are working from home?

但是，人們在家工作的這種情況對企業的經濟影響有多大？

那麼，我們可以從兩個方面來看待這個問題。

Mostly for businesses, hybrid, which is when you come in, say, two, three days a week and work from home two, three days a week.

主要是針對企業的混合型工作，也就是每週來兩三天，每週在家工作兩三天。

It's why if you look at the Fortune 500, so these are the largest 500 companies in the world. 80% of them are on hybrid because it makes them a lot of money.

這就是為什麼如果你看看《財富》世界 500 強，這些都是世界上最大的 500 家公司。其中 80% 都在使用混合動力，因為混合動力能讓他們賺大錢。

Well, if you look at the research, if you work from home a couple of days a week, it doesn't really seem to damage productivity.

研究表明，如果每週在家工作幾天，似乎並不會影響工作效率。

So, yes, you know, you need to be in for mentoring, for connectivity, for building culture, for innovating.

所以，是的，你知道，你需要參與指導、連接、文化建設和創新。

But by the time you're coming in three days a week, it looks like you kind of have your fill.

但是，當你一週來三天的時候，你就會覺得你已經吃飽了。

And the other two days are good for quiet time and for recharging without a commute.

而另外兩天則適合安靜地度過，也適合在沒有通勤的情況下充電。

What businesses gain is turnovers a lot lower.

So in one study we published actually last year in Nature, you see quit rates fall by about a third.

是以，我們去年在《自然》雜誌上發表的一項研究顯示，戒菸率下降了約三分之一。

And, you know, you can see why, like folks are like, I really like working from home a couple of days a week.

而且，你知道，你可以理解為什麼人們會說，我非常喜歡每週在家工作幾天。

And for businesses, that saves them an enormous amount of money because every person that quits, you've got to go out, you've got to reinterview, rehire.

這為企業節省了大量資金，因為每個辭職的人都需要重新面試、重新招聘。

And has that passion been replicated across the world?

這種熱情是否在全世界得到了複製？

This move from a full time working from home to that hybrid model you're talking about?

從全職在家工作到你所說的混合模式？

If you look at Southern Europe and Asia, take Tokyo.

放眼南歐和亞洲，就拿東京來說吧。

There's very little working from home going on.

You know, in 2019, these cities look similar.

要知道，在 2019 年，這些城市看起來都差不多。

Suddenly, five years later, you know, six years later, we've now seen a surge of work from home in much of Europe and the US and pretty much everyone's returned to the office in Asia.

突然間，五年後，你知道，六年後，我們在歐洲和美國的大部分地區看到了在家辦公的熱潮，而在亞洲，幾乎每個人都回到了辦公室。

And Zoe, what has that meant for how people might move between jobs now if you can potentially be working from home for a company that is no longer based in your town or in a nearby city, as may have been the case in the past when you sought employment adjacent to where you live?

佐伊，如果你有可能在家為一家不再位於你所在城市或附近城市的公司工作，這對人們現在如何在不同工作之間流動意味著什麼？

I think there has been a shift in terms of the balance of power that when you apply for a job, it has become the norm to ask for flexible working, or certainly more normalised, and to expect it.

我認為，在權力平衡方面已經發生了變化，當你申請工作時，要求彈性工作制已經成為一種常態，或者說已經變得更加正常，而且人們也期待彈性工作制。