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  • So I'm going to talk about trust,

    今天我要談的是信任,

  • and I'm going to start by reminding you

    在這之前我想要提醒你們

  • of the standard views that people have about trust.

    人們對於信任的普遍觀點。

  • I think these are so commonplace,

    我認為這些都老生常談的事,

  • they've become clichés of our society.

    他們變成了社會上經常討論的陳詞濫調。

  • And I think there are three.

    我認為一共有三點。

  • One's a claim: there has been a great decline in trust,

    第一是一個主張:人們普遍認為,

  • very widely believed.

    信任感驟減。

  • The second is an aim: we should have more trust.

    第二個是一個目標:我們需要有更多的信任。

  • And the third is a task: we should rebuild trust.

    而第三個是一個任務:我們需要重建信任。

  • I think that the claim, the aim and the task

    而我認為,主張也好,目標和任務也好,

  • are all misconceived.

    都是誤解。

  • So what I'm going to try to tell you today

    所以我今天要跟你們說的

  • is a different story about a claim, an aim and a task

    與社會上所公認的主張、目標和任務截然不同,

  • which I think give one quite a lot better purchase on the matter.

    而我認為,這是對信任這一話題更好的解讀。

  • First the claim: Why do people think trust has declined?

    首先是主張:爲什麽人們普遍認為信任感驟減?

  • And if I really think about it on the basis of my own evidence,

    根據我自己的證明出發,

  • I don't know the answer.

    我不知道答案。

  • I'm inclined to think it may have declined

    我更傾向於去想信任感

  • in some activities or some institutions

    可能在某些活動或者組織里驟減

  • and it might have grown in others.

    但是在其他活動或組織里增加。

  • I don't have an overview.

    我沒有一個總體觀察。

  • But, of course, I can look at the opinion polls,

    但,當然,我可以去看民意調查,

  • and the opinion polls are supposedly

    而民意調查按推測來說是

  • the source of a belief that trust has declined.

    “信任感驟減“這一主張的根源。

  • When you actually look at opinion polls across time,

    但當你真的去看從以前到現在的民意調查時,

  • there's not much evidence for that.

    並沒有根據去可以去支持這一主張。

  • That's to say, the people who were mistrusted

    也就是說,二十年前

  • 20 years ago,

    被不信任的人群,

  • principally journalists and politicians, are still mistrusted.

    主要是記者和政客在現在還是不被信任。

  • And the people who were highly trusted 20 years ago

    但二十年前被高度信任的人群

  • are still rather highly trusted: judges, nurses.

    現在還是被高度信任,如法官和護士。

  • The rest of us are in between,

    其他人的信任感在其間,

  • and by the way, the average person in the street

    順便提到一點,在街上的普通人

  • is almost exactly midway.

    信任感都在中等程度。

  • But is that good evidence?

    這是一個好的證據嗎?

  • What opinion polls record is, of course, opinions.

    民意調查記錄的,當然,是意見。

  • What else can they record?

    但他們還能記錄其他別的什麽嗎?

  • So they're looking at the generic attitudes

    所以他們開始看人們回答

  • that people report when you ask them certain questions.

    一些問題時的一半態度。

  • Do you trust politicians? Do you trust teachers?

    你們相信政客嗎?你們相信老師嗎?

  • Now if somebody said to you, "Do you trust greengrocers?

    如果有一個人問你,”你相信水果蔬菜攤販嗎?

  • Do you trust fishmongers?

    你相信魚販嗎?

  • Do you trust elementary school teachers?"

    你相信小學老師嗎?”

  • you would probably begin by saying, "To do what?"

    你也許會開始問,“爲什麽要信任?”

  • And that would be a perfectly sensible response.

    這也許是一個非常合理的回答。

  • And you might say, when you understood the answer to that,

    當你明白了問題的答案,你也許會說,

  • "Well, I trust some of them, but not others."

    “好吧,我相信他們之中其中一些,但不是其他的。”

  • That's a perfectly rational thing.

    那也是非常理智的一件事。

  • In short, in our real lives,

    簡要來說,在我們的真實生活中,

  • we seek to place trust in a differentiated way.

    我們嘗試去把信任從不同的層面來理解。

  • We don't make an assumption that the level of trust

    對於我們信任的程度

  • that we will have in every instance of a certain type

    會根據某種類型

  • of official or office-holder or type of person

    比如說政府人員或官方人員 而統一

  • is going to be uniform.

    不做假設。

  • I might, for example, say that I certainly trust

    比方說,我也許會說我一定會信任

  • a certain elementary school teacher I know

    一個我所熟知的小學老師

  • to teach the reception class to read,

    教授學前班閱讀,

  • but in no way to drive the school minibus.

    但是卻絕不能讓他開校車。

  • I might, after all, know that she wasn't a good driver.

    我也許知道她並不是一個好的司機。

  • I might trust my most loquacious friend

    我也許相信我最多嘴的朋友

  • to keep a conversation going

    可以使對話變得順暢

  • but not -- but perhaps not to keep a secret.

    但恐怕不能信任他可以保守秘密。

  • Simple.

    這是一個簡單的論點。

  • So if we've got those evidence in our ordinary lives

    所以如果我們收集這些在我們平常生活中的證據

  • of the way that trust is differentiated,

    來證明信任是分不同層面的,

  • why do we sort of drop all that intelligence

    那麼爲什麽當我們把信任這一話題抽象意義上想的時候

  • when we think about trust more abstractly?

    就丟失我們的智慧了呢?

  • I think the polls are very bad guides

    我認為民意調查對於真正存在的信任程度

  • to the level of trust that actually exists,

    是非常錯誤的指標

  • because they try to obliterate the good judgment

    因為他們以信任作為話題的時候

  • that goes into placing trust.

    就丟失掉良好的判斷力。

  • Secondly, what about the aim?

    第二,那麼目標呢?

  • The aim is to have more trust.

    目標是要有更多的信任。

  • Well frankly, I think that's a stupid aim.

    好吧,坦白說,我覺得這是個愚蠢的目標。

  • It's not what I would aim at.

    這不會是我的目標。

  • I would aim to have more trust in the trustworthy

    我的目標會是對值得信賴的多信任

  • but not in the untrustworthy.

    而不是對待不值得信任的胡亂信任。

  • In fact, I aim positively to try not to trust the untrustworthy.

    實際上,我的目標是不要去相信那些不值得信任的。

  • And I think, of those people who, for example,

    而且我認為,比如,那些人

  • placed their savings with the very aptly named Mr. Madoff,

    把他們的存款存在馬多夫(旁氏騙局,美國歷史上最大的欺詐案)名下

  • who then made off with them,

    然後馬多夫再把他們騙光,

  • and I think of them, and I think, well, yes,

    我認為他們,

  • too much trust.

    就太過於信任了。

  • More trust is not an intelligent aim in this life.

    更多信任不應該是人生中的一個明智的目標。

  • Intelligently placed and intelligently refused trust

    明智的選擇相信和明智的選擇不相信

  • is the proper aim.

    才是更合適的目標。

  • Well once one says that, one says, yeah, okay,

    曾經有一個人說,

  • that means that what matters in the first place

    放在第一位的應該

  • is not trust but trustworthiness.

    不是信任而是可信度。

  • It's judging how trustworthy people are

    可信度是用來檢測人們在特定的層面

  • in particular respects.

    是否可信。

  • And I think that judgment requires us to look at three things.

    而我認為判斷要求我們觀察三件事。

  • Are they competent? Are they honest? Are they reliable?

    他們是否有能力?他們是否誠實?他們是否可信賴?

  • And if we find that a person is competent

    如果我們發現一個人在有關事項里

  • in the relevant matters,

    具有能力,

  • and reliable and honest,

    可信又誠實,

  • we'll have a pretty good reason to trust them,

    我們就有足夠的理由去相信他們,

  • because they'll be trustworthy.

    因為他們可信賴。

  • But if, on the other hand, they're unreliable, we might not.

    但是如果,換一個角度來說,他們不可信, 我們就也許不會選擇相信了。

  • I have friends who are competent and honest,

    我有幾個又有能力又誠實的朋友,

  • but I would not trust them to post a letter,

    但是我確不會向他們去張貼一封信,

  • because they're forgetful.

    因為他們很健忘。

  • I have friends who are very confident

    我有朋友非常的自信

  • they can do certain things,

    他們能做某些特定的事情上,

  • but I realize that they overestimate their own competence.

    但我也認識到他們高估了自己的能力。

  • And I'm very glad to say, I don't think I have many friends

    我非常高興的說,我不認為我有很多

  • who are competent and reliable but extremely dishonest.

    有能力、可靠又極其不誠實的朋友。

  • (Laughter)

    (笑)

  • If so, I haven't yet spotted it.

    即使有的話,我也還沒發現。

  • But that's what we're looking for:

    但這就是我們需要的:

  • trustworthiness before trust.

    信任之前檢測可信度。

  • Trust is the response.

    信任是反應。

  • Trustworthiness is what we have to judge.

    可信度是我們需要判斷的。

  • And, of course, it's difficult.

    誠然,這是很難去判斷的。

  • Across the last few decades, we've tried to construct

    在過去的幾十年,我們嘗試為

  • systems of accountability for all sorts of institutions

    各種各樣的機構、專業人員以及政府官員

  • and professionals and officials and so on

    建立問責制度

  • that will make it easier for us to judge their trustworthiness.

    讓我們更容易去判斷他們是否可信。

  • A lot of these systems have the converse effect.

    但很多這樣的體制卻有反效果。

  • They don't work as they're supposed to.

    他們並不像預期的那樣有效。

  • I remember I was talking with a midwife who said,

    我記得當我跟一個助產師談話的時候說,

  • "Well, you see, the problem is it takes longer

    “你看,問題在於文書工作

  • to do the paperwork than to deliver the baby."

    比生產的時間還要長。“

  • And all over our public life, our institutional life,

    有一個問題遍佈在

  • we find that problem,

    我們的所有場所和機構里,

  • that the system of accountability

    那就是問責制度

  • that is meant to secure trustworthiness

    本應該用來保護可信度

  • and evidence of trustworthiness

    和用來做可信度的證據

  • is actually doing the opposite.

    但它卻做著相反的事情。

  • It is distracting people who have to do difficult tasks,

    它使做複雜工作的人們分心,

  • like midwives, from doing them

    比如說助產師,

  • by requiring them to tick the boxes, as we say.

    讓他們去勾選表格框框而不是讓他們去助產。

  • You can all give your own examples there.

    你也可以舉你自己身上的例子。

  • So so much for the aim.

    這就是目標。

  • The aim, I think, is more trustworthiness,

    我認為,目標更在於是可信度,

  • and that is going to be different

    如果我們嘗試去做一個值得信任的人

  • if we are trying to be trustworthy

    更把我們可信度傳遞給別人

  • and communicate our trustworthiness to other people,

    那就是另外一件不同的事了。

  • and if we are trying to judge whether other people

    如果我們嘗試要去判斷是否他人

  • or office-holders or politicians are trustworthy.

    政府官員或政客們是否值得信任,

  • It's not easy. It is judgment, and simple reaction,

    那真是不容易。這些是判斷,反應,

  • attitudes, don't do adequately here.

    和態度都遠遠不夠的。

  • Now thirdly, the task.

    現在我們來談第三點,任務。

  • Calling the task rebuilding trust, I think,

    把任務定位重建信任,我認為,

  • also gets things backwards.

    同樣是起到了適得其反的功效。

  • It suggests that you and I should rebuild trust.

    這個目標建議的是你我都應該重建信任。

  • Well, we can do that for ourselves.

    好吧,我們可以為我們自己做這個。

  • We can rebuild a bit of trustworthiness.

    我們也可以重建一點的可信度。

  • We can do it two people together trying to improve trust.

    我們可以在兩個人之間嘗試去提升信任。

  • But trust, in the end, is distinctive

    但是,說到底,信任是獨特的,

  • because it's given by other people.

    因為它是由他人給予的。

  • You can't rebuild what other people give you.

    你不能重建別人給予你的東西。

  • You have to give them the basis

    你必須給他們給予你他們信任

  • for giving you their trust.

    的根據。

  • So you have to, I think, be trustworthy.

    所以我認為,你必須,值得信任。

  • And that, of course, is because you can't fool

    而那個,當然,是你通常不能夠

  • all of the people all of the time, usually.

    欺騙所有人,一直欺騙可以得到的。

  • But you also have to provide usable evidence

    但你也必須提供有用的證據

  • that you are trustworthy.

    來證明你值得信任。

  • How to do it?

    要怎麼做呢?

  • Well every day, all over the place, it's being done

    每天,每個地方,這都在

  • by ordinary people, by officials, by institutions,

    被普通的個人、官員、機構

  • quite effectively.

    有效的實踐著。

  • Let me give you a simple commercial example.

    讓我給你們一個簡單的商業案例。

  • The shop where I buy my socks says I may take them back,

    我買襪子的商店跟我說,我可以退還這些商品,

  • and they don't ask any questions.

    他們不會詢問原因。

  • They take them back and give me the money

    他們把襪子收回並且退還給我錢

  • or give me the pair of socks of the color I wanted.

    或者給我一雙我想要顏色的襪子。

  • That's super. I trust them

    這很好,所以我相信他們。

  • because they have made themselves vulnerable to me.

    因為他們使自己放在一個弱勢地位。

  • I think there's a big lesson in that.

    我認為其中有大道理。

  • If you make yourself vulnerable to the other party,

    如果你讓自己相對於另一方弱勢,

  • then that is very good evidence that you are trustworthy

    那麼你就有足夠的證據來證明你是可信任的

  • and you have confidence in what you are saying.

    而且你對自己所說的有信心。

  • So in the end, I think what we are aiming for

    所以,最後,我認為要發現我們所要追求的

  • is not very difficult to discern.

    並不十分困難。

  • It is relationships in which people are trustworthy

    那就是可信任人們之間的關係,

  • and can judge when and how the other person

    并可以判斷何時以及如何

  • is trustworthy.

    他人是可信的。

  • So the moral of all this is,

    這其中的寓意在於,

  • we need to think much less about trust,

    我們需要少想一些信任,

  • let alone about attitudes of trust

    更不要去想對待信任這一話題的態度、

  • detected or mis-detected by opinion polls,

    檢測或誤解民意調查,

  • much more about being trustworthy,

    而更需要想是如何成為可信的人,

  • and how you give people adequate, useful

    以及你如何給予人們足夠的、有用的

  • and simple evidence that you're trustworthy.

    和簡單的證據來證明你是可信的。

  • Thanks.

    謝謝。

  • (Applause)

    (鼓掌)

So I'm going to talk about trust,

今天我要談的是信任,

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【TED】歐諾拉·歐尼爾: 關於信任的迷思 (Onora O'Neill: What we don't understand about trust)

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