Name: 愛潑斯坦文件：邦迪、民主黨人在激烈聽證會上互罵！ (Epstein files: Bondi, Democrats trade insults during combative hearing)
Uploaded: 2026-02-12T06:26:59.000Z
Duration: 9 min 28 s

We've been watching a congressional hearing erupt into shouting matches.

我們看著國會聽證會演變成激烈的叫罵。

Attorney General Pam Bondi has been defiant and explosive as she fields questions from members of the House Judiciary Committee.

檢察總長 Pam Bondi 在面對眾議院司法委員會成員的提問時，表現得既挑釁又情緒激動。

And it's happening on multiple fronts and multiple controversies, including the Justice Department's release of the Jeffrey Epstein files.

這同時發生在許多層面和爭議中，包括司法部發布的 Jeffrey Epstein 文件。

First, just watch this exchange with Democratic Congresswoman Pramila Jayapal.

首先，來看看這段與民主黨女議員 Pramila Jayapal 的對話。

It is about you taking responsibility for your Department of Justice and the harm that it has done to the survivors who are standing right behind you and are waiting for you to turn to them and apologize for what your Department of Justice members get to ask the questions, the witness gets to answer in the way they want to answer the Attorney General.

這是關於你為你的司法部及其對在你身後、正等著你轉向他們並為你的司法部成員所做的事道歉的倖存者造成的傷害負責。你的司法部成員可以提問，證人可以按照他們想要的方式回答檢察總長。

That is not accurate, Mr. Chairman, because she doesn't like the answer.

這不準確，主席先生，因為她不喜歡這個答案。

Chairman, why I have asked, didn't she asked Merrick Garland this I reclaiming my time and when I will claim my time get in the gutter for her theatrics.

主席先生，我問了，她沒有問賈蘭德 (Merrick Garland) 這個問題，我要拿回我的發言時間，當我拿回我的發言時間時，她為了她的戲劇化表現而落入俗套。

There was also this moment when Congresswoman Jayapal asked Jeffrey Epstein survivors who are in the room to raise their hands if they haven't been able to meet with the Justice Department.

還有一個時刻，女議員 Jayapal 問在場的 Jeffrey Epstein 倖存者，如果他們無法與司法部見面，就舉起手。

Now, Bondi did acknowledge in her opening statement the victims, and

邦迪在她的開場陳述中確實提到了受害者，

she said she's deeply sorry for what they've been through and that the FBI wants to hear from them.

她說她對他們所經歷的一切深感抱歉，而且聯邦調查局很想聽聽他們的聲音。

Over the last two hours, it has been very clear that the Attorney General was speaking to an audience of one.

在過去的兩個小時裡，很明顯檢察總長是在對一個人說話。

Robert Mueller found no evidence, none of foreign interference in 2016.

羅伯特·穆勒沒有發現任何外國幹預 2016 年選舉的證據。

All of you who participated in those impeachment hearings against Donald Trump, you all should be apologizing.

你們所有參與彈劾川普總統聽證會的人，都應該道歉。

You sit here and you attack the president and I am not going to have it.

你們坐在這裡攻擊總統，我不會容忍這種行為。

You can let her filibuster all day long, but not on our watch, not on our time.

你可以讓她冗長辯論一整天，但在我們看著的時候不行，在我們時間內不行。

And I told you about that Attorney General before you started.

在你開始之前，我就跟你說過關於那位檢察總長的事了。

Oh, I did tell you, because we saw what you did in the Senate.

喔，我確實告訴妳了，因為我們看到妳在參議院做了什麼。

Within 40 minutes, you asked me a question.

不到四十分鐘，你就問了我一個問題。

Within 40 minutes, Wexner's name was added back.

不到四十分鐘，Wexner 的名字又被加回來了。

Within 40 minutes of me catching you red handed.

在我當場抓到你的四十分鐘內。

There was one redaction where he's listed as a co consent.

其中有一處刪節，他被列為共同同意。

好的，現在加入我們的是專家小組。

Start with somebody who is the opposite of a washed up Loser lawyer.

從一個跟過氣的失敗律師完全相反的人開始。

I want to get into, you know, a lot of the specifics because so much of sort of what is bubbling up in news and controversy goes through the Justice Department right now across the board Epstein files and on and on and on.

我想深入探討，你知道的，很多現在透過司法部引發新聞和爭議的細節，像是愛潑斯坦檔案等等。

But I just want to for a second talk about the tone and tenor of this hearing.

但我想先花一點時間談談這次聽證會的語氣和調性。

Yes, we saw Pam Bondi do this the last time she testified.

是的，我們上次看到 Pam Bondi 作證時也是這樣。

She had, you know, her list of insults that somebody caught a picture of.

她有，你知道的，她手上拿著一疊侮辱人的清單，有人拍了下來。

She knows what she feels that she needs to do so that the President sees her fighting back.

她知道她覺得自己需要做什麼，才能讓總統看到她在奮力反擊。

She also wants to deflect on a lot of these issues where she is in the hot seat.

她也想轉移焦點，迴避許多讓她處於風口浪尖的問題。

As somebody who worked at the doj, your thoughts on what we've seen so far.

身為曾在司法部工作過的人，你對我們到目前為止所見有什麼看法？

我希望我能用比較好聽的方式來表達，但

this is the Attorney General of the United States.

This is the top law enforcement official in the country.

他是這個國家最高的執法官員。

This is the same job that was once held by Robert F.

這份工作過去曾由小羅伯特·甘迺迪、艾略特·理查森、珍妮特·雷諾擔任。

Kennedy senior, by Elliot Richardson, by Janet Reno.

而美國民眾需要透明、需要實質答案的關鍵問題。

And there are vital questions that the American public needs transparency, needs substantive answers on.

川普症候群的指控、人身攻擊，說你是個過氣的失敗律師，諸如此類。

Accusations of Trump derangement syndrome, name calling, you're a loser lawyer, this and that.

意思是，身為美國的檢察總長在美國參議院，我們有獲得關於愛潑斯坦調查的任何實質澄清嗎？

I mean, coming from the AG of the United States in the US Senate, did we get any meaningful clarity on the Epstein investigations?

說到重點，受害者們感覺 MJ，就像你剛才說的，他們有獲得任何透明度、任何澄清嗎？

To your point, do the victims feel MJ to what you were saying earlier, like they've been given any transparency, any clarity on any of this?

我們有學到任何關於司法部在明尼蘇達州調查的新消息嗎？

Have we learned anything new about what DOJ is doing to investigate in Minnesota?

我們有學到任何關於在富爾頓縣的搜查令的新消息嗎？

Have we learned anything new about the search warrant in Fulton County?

Have we learned anything new about the fact that dozens of judges across this country have found that this DOJ lacks credibility?

我們有學到任何關於全國有數十名法官認定這司法部缺乏公信力的新消息嗎？

No, it's been name calling, it's been amateurish.

沒有，這只是互相叫罵，非常業餘。

It's an embarrassment to the Justice Department.

What we're seeing from Pam Bondi, I mean plus one, some level, but

我們從 Pam Bondi 那裡看到的，我是說加上其他人，某種程度上，但

from the non lawyer, washed up or otherwise, I think I'm not some like stuffy institutionalist.

從非律師、過氣的或其他的，我認為我不是那種死守體制的。

I love a good back and forth in a hearing.

我喜歡聽證會裡精采的來回攻防。

I pointed to Scott Bessen who said some really great one line retorts that he didn't have to prepare for or have his staff prepare in a very lengthy book of opposition research before his hearing.

我提到了 Scott Bessen，他說了一些很棒的一句話反駁，他不需要事先準備，也不需要他的團隊在聽證會前準備一本厚厚的反對研究資料。

I think it's a great part of the game and lawmakers are just as guilty of this as administration officials and have been from every single Congress and administration you can think of.

我認為這是遊戲很棒的一部分，而立法者在這方面跟政府官員一樣有罪，而且這情況在你想到過的每一個國會和政府時期都存在。

This is farcical and it's embarrassing and it is also extraordinarily juvenile in the approach.

這太荒謬了，太丟臉了，而且做法也極度幼稚。

And to Ellie's point, which I think is important, as we've seen kind of the congressional role in the branches of government continue to diminish year after year after year across several administrations.

還有，關於 Ellie 的觀點，我覺得這很重要，就像我們看到政府各部門的國會角色一年又一年地在好幾個政府時期裡持續減弱。

But in particular in the last 13 months, like this is an oversight committee of this agency.

不過特別是在過去的 13 個月裡，這就像是這個機構的監督委員會。

There was a moment where a Democratic lawmaker asked the aggressive can you please submit this document that I'm talking about, since you won't answer questions to the committee, which the answer has to be yes.

有一次，一位民主黨議員問了那個咄咄逼人的官員：「你能不能把這份我正在談論的文件提交上來？既然你不會回答委員會的問題，那答案必須是肯定的。」

And she said, I'm not going to commit to anything because I don't like how you're answering or asking these questions.

她說：「我不會承諾任何事，因為我不喜歡你回答或提問的方式。」

Like that's it's, it's just should not be a plausible option for a Cabinet official, period.

這根本就不該是一個內閣官員可以有的選項，就這樣。

And there are so many important questions which, you know, there's still a lot of people who are left to ask questions, including, like you said, I mean, one of the things that we've been talking about a lot on this show is the elections coming up.

還有很多重要的問題，你知道，還是有很多人可以問問題，包括你說的，我的意思是，我們在這個節目上經常討論的一件事就是即將到來的選舉。

First of all, the fact that the DOJ released the evidence that they gave to allow for and to get permission for a search warrant in Fulton County, Georgia.

首先，司法部發布了他們提供的證據，以便在喬治亞州富爾頓縣獲得搜查令的許可。

There were a lot of sort of washed up, to borrow a term from Pam Bondi, conspiracy theories that were used.

借用 Pam Bondi 的說法，有很多那種過氣的陰謀論被用來當作理由。

And somehow the magistrate judge said, yes, there is the lawsuit that DOJ is involved with about 24 states to try to get really sensitive personal information from them on voters.

然後不知怎麼的，治安法官說，是的，司法部正在參與一場訴訟，涉及大約 24 個州，試圖從他們那裡獲取關於選民的非常敏感的個人資訊。

And so these are critical issues for the American people and for the Congress to do their constitutional duty for oversight and, you know, sort of owning the libs and, you know, showing the conservatives in conservative media that you're not going to sort of answer questions of Democrats and even some Republicans, that does undermine what this is supposed to do.

所以這些對美國人民和國會履行憲法賦予的監督職責來說，都是關鍵議題，而且你知道，有點像是「擁抱自由派」的論調，你知道，向保守派和保守派媒體展示你不會回答民主黨人甚至一些共和黨人的問題，這確實破壞了這個會議本應達成的目的。

And, you know, look, I mean, to be fair, there are theatrics on the Democratic side, too.

而且，你知道，說句公道話，民主黨那邊也有一些表演成分。

There's theater, at least bad theater, like not getting good reviews, theater across the board.

這裡面有戲劇性，至少是糟糕的戲劇性，像是沒得到好評的戲劇，總之就是戲劇。

I think one of the most striking things to me about these hearings is they've really devolved over time.

我覺得這些聽證會最讓我印象深刻的一點是，它們隨著時間的推移，真的變得越來越離譜。

And I wonder if a member just asking a question plainly without sort of the hyperbole going into it.

我在想，如果一位議員只是 plain 地問個問題，而不是加上一堆誇張的說法。

I don't think it would change anything for Pam Bondi in this hearing.

我覺得這對 Pam Bondi 在這次聽證會上不會有任何改變。

But it does get to the whole underlying issue, which is there was a time where even if it was a Republican administration, if a Republican witness was acting that way, the Republican side of the aisle, at least someone, and

但這確實觸及了整個根本問題，那就是曾經有一段時間，即使是共和黨政府，如果一位共和黨證人表現成那樣，共和黨那邊，至少會有人，而且

not Thomas Massie in this case, because we know how he and the president feel about each other.

在這個案例中不是 Thomas Massie，因為我們知道他和總統之間是什麼感覺。

But someone else would say, you know, as a reminder in the course of this hearing and that just is not happening.

但會有人說，你知道，提醒一下，在這次聽證會的過程中，而這點現在根本沒有發生。

This is for clips, this is for the President and obviously for the audience of one that we.

這是為了剪輯，這是為了總統，顯然也是為了我們知道的那一位觀眾。

I mean the number of times that she sort of unprompted brought up the President's record, the moment where she was being asked about Epstein related issues and then brought up the Dow breaking records and I think it was a Democratic congresswoman who just shouted into the ether.

我是指她好幾次在沒有被提示的情況下，提到總統的政績，還有她被問到關於愛潑斯坦相關問題時，卻提到了道瓊指數創紀錄，我記得是一位民主黨女議員對著空氣大喊。

What does that have to do with any of this?

She clearly is keenly aware of the audience that she most needs to win over.

她顯然非常清楚她最需要贏得好感的觀眾是誰。

包括在愛潑斯坦的事情上，這點。

I'm sorry to interrupt you, but we're almost out of time.

抱歉打斷您，但我們時間快到了。

But I want to just pull something out of you which is especially on the Epstein, especially because there's a lot of criticism of her the way that they people believe, conservatives believe she believes she bungled the beginning of the administration on this.

但我想從您這裡挖出一些東西，特別是關於愛潑斯坦，尤其是因為很多人批評她，認為她處理政府初期事務的方式，保守派認為她搞砸了。

I mean how many times have we played the clip of her talking about this so called client list and saying it's sitting on my desk right now.

我想問，我們聽了多少次她談論這個所謂的客戶名單，並說它現在就在我桌上的片段了？