Name: 英國首相基爾·斯塔默怒批川普對北約部隊的言論「太侮辱了！」| BBC News (UK PM Keir Starmer calls Donald Trump's remarks about Nato troops 'insulting' | BBC News)
Uploaded: 2026-01-24T01:24:01.000Z
Duration: 10 min 9 s

Let me start by paying tribute to the 457 of our Armed services who lost their lives in Afghanistan.

讓我先向在阿富汗犧牲的 457 位國防軍隊致敬。

I will never forget their courage, their bravery and the sacrifice that they made for their country.

我永遠不會忘記他們的勇氣、他們的英勇以及他們為國家做出的犧牲。

基礎被動語態

There are many also who were injured, some with life changing injuries.

也有許多人受傷，有些是改變人生的傷害。

And so I consider President Trump's remarks to be insulting and frankly, appalling.

是以，我認為川普總統的言論是侮辱性的，坦白說，是令人髮指的。

And I'm not surprised they caused such hurt to the loved ones of those who were killed or injured.

我一點也不意外這些言論會對那些被殺害或受傷者的親人造成如此大的傷害。

And in fact, across the country, as well as politicians expressing a view, a lot of the relatives, some bereaved, others whose sons in particular suffered dreadful injuries.

事實上，全國上下，除了政界人士表達意見外，還有許多親屬，有些是喪親者，有些則是兒子受了可怕傷害的。

One is Diane Derney, mother of a man called Ben Parkinson, dreadful injuries.

其中一位是黛安·德尼，一位名叫班·帕金森的母親，他受了可怕的傷害。

She has said that you need to be tougher with President Trump and demand an apology from him.

她說你需要對川普總統更強硬，並要求他道歉。

Will you call for an apology from the president?

And what I say to Diane is if I had misspoken in that way or said those words, I would certainly apologise and I'd apologise to her.

而我對黛安想說的是，如果我當時言詞失當或說了那些話，我一定會道歉，而且我會向她道歉。

You're having to distance yourself and criticize the president about third or fourth time in this week.

你這禮拜已經是第三、第四次需要劃清界線並批評總統了。

Are you getting a bit exasperated by some of the things President Trump says?

總統川普說的一些話，你是不是有點惱怒了？

We have a very close relationship with the US and that is important for our security, for our defence and our intelligence.

我們和美國有非常緊密的關係，這對我們的安全、我們的國防和情報都很重要。

And it's very important we maintain that relationship.

But is it because of that relationship that we fought alongside the Americans for our values in Afghanistan, and

但正是因為這段關係，我們才在阿富汗與美國並肩作戰，為了我們的價值觀，

it was in that context that people lost their lives or suffered terrible injuries, fighting for freedom, fighting with our allies for what we believe in.

而且正是在那樣的背景下，有人犧牲生命或遭受了改變人生的傷害，為自由而戰，與我們的盟友為了我們所信仰的而戰。

So Keir Starmer issuing that statement following those words from President Trump when he spoke to Fox News, something that has caused an awful lot of upset.

所以基爾·斯塔默針對川普總統在接受Fox News採訪時說的話，發表了那份聲明，這件事引起了很多不滿。

We've been seeing that across the day here on BBC News when he said that we've never needed them talking about NATO, NATO allied forces, saying they'll say that they sent some troops to Afghanistan.

我們今天在BBC News上一直看到，他說我們從來不需要他們，談到北約，北約盟軍，說他們會說他們派了一些部隊到阿富汗。

They stayed a little back, a little off the front line.

他們稍微退後一點，離前線有點距離。

Something that, as we've been hearing, it's posed a lot of offense and an awful lot of upset as well.

正如我們聽到的，這件事引起了很多不滿，也讓大家非常不高興。

Well, we can speak to somebody who actually served in Helmand Province, somebody who has firsthand experience, Dr.

嗯，我們可以請教一位曾在赫爾曼德省服役過、有第一手經驗的人，Dr.

Patrick Bury, a former NATO analyst and defense expert at the University of Bath.

Patrick Bury，一位前北約分析師，也是巴斯大學的國防專家。

Like I was saying, you're a former infantry captain who served in Helmand Province.

就像我剛才說的，您是曾在赫爾曼德省服役的前步兵隊長。

Just your reaction to the President of the United States talking about NATO allied troops staying back from the front line.

您對美國總統談論北約盟軍退居前線的說法有什麼看法？

I mean, it's wrong on so many levels, isn't it?

我的意思是，這在很多層面上都是錯的，不是嗎？

And he keeps dropping to new levels over the last few weeks.

過去幾週，他的言論不斷創下新低。

As you know, we've lost four hundred and fifty seven service members in this, in this country, another over 2,000 badly injured.

就像您知道的，我們有四百五十七位國防軍隊成員在這、在這個國家犧牲，還有超過兩千人受了重傷。

And then you've got the other nations that really did fight, the Danes, the Dutch, the Canadians, the Norwegians, and

然後還有其他真正奮戰過的國家，像是丹麥、荷蘭、加拿大、挪威，

even with smaller contingents, the Czechs, the Baltic states, you know, who went to the high risk areas and fought hard alongside their American allies.

即使是派遣小部隊的捷克、波羅的海國家，他們也都去了高風險地區，和美國盟友並肩作戰。

這才是真正讓人難以接受的地方。

So it's uninformed, it's incorrect and it is insulting because, you know, at the basis of this, I had the honor and the privilege to lead US Marine Corps soldiers in Sangin as well as British.

所以這是不瞭解情況、不正確，而且是侮辱人的，因為，你知道的，最根本的是，我有幸在桑金帶領美國海軍陸戰隊阿兵哥以及英國阿兵哥。

我們是編制在一起的排級單位。

We casavacked our wounded and our dead together often.

我們經常一起運送傷患和陣亡弟兄。

And so there's that brotherhood, you know, you've been in combat in that brotherhood and that's important.

所以有這種情誼，你知道的，你們經歷過戰鬥，有這種情誼，這很重要。

And for a man who frankly deferred the draft five times for bone spurs, you know, in Vietnam to come round and then question that kind of brotherhood, that's deeply insulting.

對一個為了骨刺而五次延遲徵召入伍的人，你知道的，在越南經歷過後，竟然質疑這種情誼，這實在是極大的侮辱。

And when you talk about that kind of brotherhood, what do you think, your American brothers who you fought alongside, what must they be thinking about their commander in chief?

當你談論這種情誼時，你認為呢？那些跟你並肩作戰的美國弟兄，他們對他們的總司令會怎麼想？

But what I can say is that certainly those kind of sentiments were not made at all to those of us on the front line fighting together.

但我能說的是，在前線一起奮戰的我們，絕對沒有收到任何這類言論。

I do think about the people currently serving in the US military stationed all through Europe who, some of which will be pretty embarrassed about this, I would have thought, and

我確實想到那些目前在歐洲駐守的美國軍人，我想他們有些人會覺得很難堪，

I mean, there is another point that happened in Afghanistan and it does need to be noted that some of the NATO states went to lower risk areas and put their own national caveats on it.

嗯，還有另一點，關於阿富汗發生的事，確實需要注意，有些北約國家去了風險較低的地區，並加上了他們自己的國家限制。

Some states didn't fight as hard as other states because of their national politics and their appetite for risk.

有些國家因為他們的國家政治和風險偏好，沒有像其他國家那樣努力作戰。

But some did and, and that's why it's deeply upsetting.

但有些國家有，這就是為什麼這件事讓人非常難過。

And you'd wonder who, who last had his ear?

你會想知道是誰，是誰最後影響了他的想法？

Donald Trump, because it is always about who last had his ear, telling him these things.

唐納·川普，因為他總是聽從最後影響他的人，告訴他這些事。

哦，北約（Nato）並沒有真正作戰。

I mean, some of Naito did fight, that's very clear.

我的意思是，北約（Nato）確實有在作戰，這一點非常清楚。

Other bits didn't, but the way he went about it is just disrespectful.

有些部分沒有，但他處理事情的方式實在很不尊重人。

I think you talk about how he's uninformed when it comes to the figures.

我認為你談到他對數字根本不瞭解。

Of course, we do know that the highest number of casualties were from US soldiers, 2461, 547.

當然，我們知道傷亡人數最多的是美軍，有 2461 人，547 人。

But when you look at the figures, when you look at the losses relative to the size of the population of each country, then like you say, yes, the United States at the lead, but

但當你看看這些數字，看看各國人口比例的損失，就像你說的，是的，美國領先，但是

Denmark suffering incredibly high losses in relation to their population figures, the UK as well.

丹麥損失慘重，相較於他們的人口比例，英國也是如此。

I just wonder your reflections, given your firsthand experience that we're talking about body counts in order to, to talk about what was done in Afghanistan and who has more clout.

我只是想知道你的想法，鑑於你擁有的第一手經驗，我們正在談論死亡人數，來討論在阿富汗做了什麼，以及誰的影響力更大。

I didn't sign up to serve Donald Trump by any means.

我絕對不是為了效忠唐納·川普而參軍的。

You know, I signed up to serve the country and my regiments and my comrades in arms.

你知道，我參軍是為了國家、我的團和我的戰友們。

And I was happy and honored to serve with great people from America throughout that career as well.

而且我很榮幸能在那段軍旅生涯中，與許多優秀的美國人一起服役。

So, you know, with my kind of analyst, academic head on, you start talking about those numbers that you have up on your website about, about population.

所以，你知道，以我這種分析師、學術的腦袋來看，你會開始談論你們網站上關於人口的那些數字。

You know, it's not about the size of population, it's about the size of the military.

你知道，重點不是人口的規模，而是軍隊的規模。

First of all, which is much smaller in some of these countries.

首先，在其中一些國家，軍隊規模小得多。

And then it's the size of that military that deployed to the front lines.

然後是部署到前線的軍隊規模。

So for example, my platoon, my company, we took 10% casualties, you know, in fact, 25% casualties.

所以，舉例來說，我的排、我的連，我們承受了 10% 的傷亡，你知道，事實上是 25% 的傷亡。

The U.S. marine Corps who served with us took terrible casualties.

和我們一起服役的美國海軍陸戰隊承受了慘重的傷亡。

The guys who came up to after us and three rifles, way worse.

那些來找我們、還有三把步槍的人，情況糟多了。

And the same with the Marines, you know, so we shared that risk together.

海軍陸戰隊也是一樣，你知道，所以我們一起承擔了這個風險。

Yeah, I just don't think it's presidential, is it?

是啊，我就是覺得這不像總統該有的樣子，對吧？

這就是造成這麼多憤怒的原因。

But I think expecting Donald Trump to be presidential is probably a bit of an ask in this regard.

但我認為，期望唐納·川普能表現得像個總統，在這方面可能有點強求了。

You know, presidential is about shared embodying and an understanding.

你知道，總統的氣度在於共同的體現和理解。

If you look at the, the shared sacrifices of all our countries, whether they're big or small and whether, and

如果你看看我們所有國家共同的犧牲，無論大小，

that basically, as I said, understanding that brotherhood which is gathered and the interoperational experience which is gathered on the front lines, behind the front lines, you know, we haven't even talked about the special forces of a lot of these countries operating together.

基本上，就像我說的，理解那份在第一線、或第一線後方凝聚起來的兄弟情誼，以及共同的作戰經驗，你知道，我們甚至還沒談到很多國家特種部隊的合作。

So yeah, it's just, it's just the positive of alliances and what's hold us together is really bounded in the share history and the shared sacrifice.

這就是盟友關係的正面意義，以及是什麼將我們凝聚在一起，這一切都根植於共同的歷史和共同的犧牲。

And when you forget that or you don't honor it, I think the world is a worse place.

當你忘記這點，或者不尊重這份犧牲時，我認為世界就會變得更糟。

So, so on that point, because of course, you also, you're, you're a former NATO analyst, a defense expert at the University of Bath.

所以，關於這一點，因為當然，你也是一位前北約分析師，巴斯大學的國防專家。

When you've got the president being so dismissive of the facts, so dismissive of the shared history that you're speaking about, what future is there for NATO's if he doesn't even acknowledge what happened on the ground?

當總統如此輕視事實，如此輕視你所說的共同歷史時，如果他甚至不承認地面上發生的事，北約還有什麼未來？

I mean, we don't want to transpose sort of flippant comments to Fox News out to the, to the implications for NATO.

我的意思是，我們不希望將在 Fox News 上輕率的評論，轉移到對北約的影響上。

What I can say is the difference is that the Americans, when I worked in NATO, knew that they were the most powerful nation and they knew that ultimately the decision rested with them about what NATO did and they knew that they funded it the most.

我能說的是，不同之處在於，當我在北約工作時，美國人知道他們是最強大的國家，他們知道最終的決定權在他們手中，關於北約要做什麼，他們也知道他們是出資最多的。

They also knew there was bad imbalances about how that funded would have quietly tried to get, you know, to get that those addressed.

他們也知道在資金分配上有嚴重的失衡，他們曾試圖悄悄地解決這些問題。

And it was right that Europe has stepped up and we all can see that now and is stepping up.

歐洲確實已經挺身而出，我們現在都看得到，而且還在繼續努力。

But they wore it well, you know, that was it.

但他們很好地承擔了，你知道，就是這樣。

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英國首相基爾·斯塔默怒批川普對北約部隊的言論「太侮辱了！」| BBC News (UK PM Keir Starmer calls Donald Trump's remarks about Nato troops 'insulting' | BBC News)

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