Name: 「蒐集個資」：孩子們齊心協力阻止社群媒體禁令！ (‘Collecting people's data’: Children band together to stop social media ban)
Uploaded: 2025-12-03T09:27:49.000Z
Duration: 10 min 36 s

to 不定詞

Well, there is a fortnight to go until the government's landmark social media ban.

距離政府的里程碑式社交媒體禁令還有兩週。

We've known it's been coming for a while.

我們早就知道這件事會發生了。

The Prime Minister and communications ministering field of questions from students.

總理和通訊部長正在回答學生的提問。

Now, these are the people it actually applies to.

現在，這些人才是真正受到影響的。

Kids under 16 will be prevented from accessing platforms including Instagram, Snapchat and Twitch from December 10th.

16歲以下的孩童從12月10日起將無法使用包括Instagram、Snapchat和Twitch在內的平臺。

Unsurprisingly, many are curious, perhaps an even stronger word than that about the enforcement measures.

毫不意外地，許多人都很好奇，甚至可以說是更強烈地想知道執法措施。

How will this delay be upheld and what measures are in place to prevent people from bypassing the security systems and creating fake accounts?

這個延遲將如何執行？又有哪些措施可以防止人們規避安全系統並創建假帳號？

The responsibility is on the social media companies.

Now, we know that social media knows more about you than some of your friends know about you because of the algorithms and the way that it works.

我們知道，社交媒體因為演算法和運作方式，比你的一些朋友更瞭解你。

所以這項規定將從12月10日開始實施。

It's been lodged in the High Court today.

The Digital Freedom Project has filed proceedings in a bid to stop the government's legislation, which it says improperly robs 2.6 million young Australians of the right to the freedom of political communication.

數位自由計畫已提起訴訟，試圖阻止政府的立法，他們認為這項立法不當地剝奪了260萬澳洲年輕人政治溝通的自由權利。

Joining me live is Shadow Communications Minister Melissa McIntosh.

數位通訊部長 Melissa McIntosh 將連線加入我。

What do you make of this legal challenge?

I don't have the full details of the challenges.

我還沒有這項挑戰的完整細節。

It's merging and obviously it'll be a court case.

這正在整合，顯然這將會是一場官司。

But I'm not surprised that people are challenging this.

但我並不意外人們會對此提出質疑。

And to hear just, you know, a couple of weeks ago, and

I've been warning about this, that digital ID will need to be used to verify ages, which means these big multinational companies are collecting people's data through a third party operator.

我一直警告說，數位身份將需要用來驗證年齡，這意味著這些大型跨國公司會透過第三方營運商收集人們的資料。

There's just too many questions and people don't like it.

Kids who might be on YouTube doing their thing, you know, are challenging.

像 YouTube 上的孩子們，你知道的，他們正在挑戰。

We had someone on the program saying, well, this is the best way young people can participate in any sort of political debate and have their voices heard.

我們節目上有位來賓說，這是年輕人參與任何政治辯論並讓自己的聲音被聽見的最佳方式。

Do you have sympathy for that or do you hope this challenge fails?

你對此有同情嗎？還是你希望這項挑戰失敗？

No, of course I have sympathy for young people who want to be involved online.

不，當然，我同情那些想參與網路的年輕人。

And I have to go back to the fact that the coalition did support the ban.

當然，我必須回到聯盟確實支持這項禁令的事實。

But ever since then I've come into this role, I've questioned whether it's going to work or not.

但自從我擔任這個職位以來，我一直質疑它是否會奏效。

I think there's a high risk of failure on this and, you know, the absolute, you know, disgust that Australians have that they've been winked into having to provide digital id.

我認為這項措施失敗的風險很高，而且，你知道，澳洲人對於被要求提供數位身分證感到非常厭惡。

So there are many when you say having to provide it, that's not the government necessarily enforcing that.

所以，當你說必須提供時，這不代表政府一定會強制執行。

There were multiple options for each social media company on how this would be enforced.

每個社交媒體公司都有多種執行方式的選項。

And I've spoken to many of the companies and even meeting with Meta, they've got a third party provider, but

我跟許多公司都談過了，甚至跟 Meta 會面，他們有第三方供應商，但是

If they, if somebody you know might not meet what their age verification face technology is saying, then they'll ask for your driver's licence or your birth certificate.

如果他們，你知道，有人可能不符合他們年齡驗證臉部辨識技術的標準，那麼他們會要求你的駕照或出生證明。

You've got to remember in that trial was 34%, I think at risk of getting it wrong, which is reasonably high.

你必須記住，在那次試驗中，有 34% 的人，我認為，面臨出錯的風險，這相當高。

So the age verification technology has been rushed.

所以年齡驗證技術被倉促推行了。

The government said there would be no compelling for digital id.

政府表示不會強制要求數位身分證。

Yet here we are, as you should, but it isn't compelling.

但我們現在在這裡，就像你應該的，但這不是強制性的。

The government itself is not saying you have to give a digital id.

政府本身並沒有說你必須提供數位身分證。

The government oversees the ESAFETY commissioner who does have the powers to compel digital id.

政府監督有權強制要求數位身分證的 ESAFETY 專員。

She said it to me herself and then said, but I don't intend to use it.

她親口告訴我，然後又說，但我無意使用它。

好的，那我們現在是什麼立場？

聯盟是否支持這個，還是不支持？

We support protecting Australian children.

We want this to work in the interests of Australian kids.

我們希望這能為澳洲兒童的利益而成功。

But with platforms only still being dribbled in now with digital ID and court cases, there's a high risk that it won't fulfil its intent, which was to protect Australian kids.

但現在平臺只透過數位身分證和法院案件緩慢推進，很有可能無法達成保護澳洲兒童的初衷。

Could you say specifically what you'd do differently when you say it could fail?

當你說它可能會失敗時，你具體會怎麼做會不一樣？

Because most experts say if big tech companies want this to work, they will make it work.

因為大多數專家都說，如果大型科技公司想讓它成功，他們就會讓它成功。

Well, I think the setting of the date of December 10th and rushing it through and having a lot of PR exercises along the way like going to New York and announcing our success before it even happened.

嗯，我認為設定 12 月 10 日這個日期，然後倉促通過，沿途進行許多公關活動，像是去紐約宣佈我們還沒發生的成功。

Well, I probably wouldn't going back in time if we won the election, there's no point in, you know, we don't have the benefits of the full extent of government departments.

嗯，如果我們贏得選舉，我可能不會回到過去，你知道的，沒有全盤政府部門的優勢。

We barely have staff thanks to the government's cuts of staff.

由於政府的裁員，我們幾乎沒有員工。

So the work that we, of course, the dates, of course, ensuring that the technology is appropriate and of course ensuring that people aren't compelled to use digital id.

所以我們的工作，當然還有日期，當然還有確保技術是適當的，當然還有確保人們不會被迫使用數位身分證。

Right, but isn't that again within the means of social media companies?

好的，但這不又是在社交媒體公司的能力範圍內嗎？

They have many ways of detecting people's ages.

他們有很多方法可以偵測人們的年齡。

If they want to do that, they don't have to.

如果他們想這麼做，他們不必這樣做。

You've got to remember some of these social media companies are only getting told now that they're included in and I'm not standing up for the big tech companies at all.

你必須記住，有些社交媒體公司現在才被告知他們被包含在內，我並不是為大型科技公司辯護。

But being told like a couple of weeks out, you're including, you must do everything in your power to ensure get kids off and kick them off.

但卻在兩週前才被告知，你們必須盡一切努力確保讓孩子們離開並將他們踢出。

When about the case though that even there could be a company that marks itself as Facebook for kids and then that will get brought into this.

至於那個案例，即使有公司將自己標記為「給孩子的 Facebook」，然後這也會被納入其中。

There will be companies or social media platforms added to this all the time.

會不斷有公司或社交媒體平臺被加入進來。

I actually am probably now more concerned about what's coming down the line with AI and technology that we haven't even thought about yet and kids access to that and moving off social media and exploring what other options there are.

事實上，我現在可能更擔心 AI 和我們還沒想到的技術會帶來什麼，以及孩子們如何接觸到這些，還有離開社交媒體並探索其他選擇。

Because if there are unintended consequences you think are more concerning, does that mean the social media ban is now a bad idea?

因為如果有些意想不到的後果讓你覺得更擔憂，這是否意味著社交媒體禁令現在是個壞主意？

Well, these are things that have happened even since we went to the election.

嗯，這些事情自從我們去選舉以來就發生了。

AI is moving so quickly and discovering in the news recently that kids have best friends that are AI bots.

AI 的發展速度非常快，最近新聞報導說，孩子們有 AI 機器人當最好的朋友。

So they are concerning things that are coming down the.

所以這些是我們要面對的令人擔憂的事情。

So technology advancements and I suppose the prospect a kid gets a vpn.

所以科技的進步，我猜想，一個小孩可能會得到一個 VPN。

So regardless of how well it's rolled out.

Because it will drive some people to other things.

因為這會讓一些人轉向其他事物。

You're now saying maybe the whole idea is not a good one.

你現在是在說，也許整個想法不是個好主意。

I'm saying to you, we support the intent and we did support the legislation we were part of.

我跟你說，我們支持這個意圖，我們也支持這項立法，我們是其中一份子。

It was Peter Dutton as opposition leader that wanted this and we all backed that.

當時反對黨領袖彼得·達頓想要這個，我們都支持。

I wasn't the shadow communications minister at the time.

Perhaps I would have had a different stance if I was and made sure that everything that the unintended consequences weren't going to come to fruition so much.

也許如果我當時是，並且確保所有非預期的後果不會那麼嚴重，我的立場會有所不同。

It just feels like it's transforming into something else.

感覺就像它正在轉變成別的東西。

When adults are compelled to use digital id, that is a big problem for many Australians and I bet many of your viewers.

當成年人被迫使用數位身分驗證時，這對許多澳洲人，以及我猜很多你的觀眾來說，都是個大問題。

When you say adults compelled, I mean someone, I guess that is 18 and might look young.

你說成年人被迫，我是說，我想有些人是18歲但看起來可能還年輕。

I think I'll be alright if the camera zooms in.

我想如果鏡頭拉近，我應該會沒事。

The wrinkles are there from the children.