Name: 特朗普與馬斯克的恩怨爆發！阿里-梅爾伯談衝突如何威脅美國共和黨議程 (Trump–Musk feud explodes! Ari Melber on how the clash is threatening the GOP agenda)
Uploaded: 2025-06-08T00:05:10.000Z
Duration: 11 min 56 s

基礎被動語態

We begin right now, though, with Trump, who is known for, if nothing else, his reality star TV instincts.

不過，我們現在就從特朗普開始，如果不出意外的話，他的電視真人秀本領是眾所周知的。

He knows about clashes in media narratives.

他知道你如何吸引別人的注意。

But he has found himself out reality showed, at least for a day, by the angry Elon Musk.

但他發現自己已經被憤怒的埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）淘汰了，至少有一天是這樣。

You might have heard the comparisons now to jilted lovers, to breakups, to divorces, to divestitures.

你現在可能已經聽到了與被拋棄的戀人、分手、離婚、資產剝離的比較。

Whatever you want to call it, whatever analogy you want to use, Trump is trying to wrest back control of a political and media cycle that he clearly lost for a minute there.

無論你怎麼稱呼它，無論你想用什麼比喻，特朗普都在試圖奪回對政治和媒體週期的控制權，而他顯然在那一刻失去了控制權。

Because Musk came out swinging, smearing Donald Trump with all kinds of allegations, some of which we're not going to repeat because we deal in evidence and news, some of which are just political opinions.

因為馬斯克大搖大擺地站出來，用各種指控抹黑唐納德-特朗普，其中有些我們就不重複了，因為我們處理的是證據和新聞，有些只是政治觀點。

Musk saying Trump should be impeached after working with him for the first 130 days.

馬斯克說，在與特朗普共事的前 130 天裡，應該彈劾他。

Also saying that Trump is basically lying about what's in this big economic bill that is hanging in the balance.

還說特朗普基本上是在撒謊，謊稱這項懸而未決的大型經濟法案中包含了什麼內容。

And then pushing four different narratives back.

然後再把四種不同的說法推回去。

He called several outlets today, did phone interviews, continued to try to deal with what has clearly spun out of control for him.

他今天給幾家媒體打了電話，接受了電話採訪，繼續試圖處理對他來說顯然已經失控的事情。

He alluded to Musk's alleged drug use, something that we should tell you Musk has denied but was reported in the New York Times regarding last year activities on the Cane Pan Trail.

他暗指馬斯克涉嫌吸毒，我們應該告訴你，馬斯克已經否認了這一點，但《紐約時報》曾報道過他去年在甘蔗潘小徑上的活動。

Trump reaching out to CNN to say, and tell me if this reminds you of any friend you've ever had, telling you they're over something?

特朗普向美國有線電視新聞網（CNN）表示："告訴我，這是否讓你想起了你曾經的朋友，告訴你他們已經結束了一些事情？

引用一下，我根本沒想過伊隆。

Not thinking about him, just calling around talking about him.

沒有想他，只是到處打電話談論他。

Quote, I won't be speaking to him for a while, I guess, Trump said, and then added, I wish him well.

特朗普說："我想，我有一段時間不會和他說話了，"然後他補充道，"我祝願他一切順利。

He called ABC News to say, quote, you mean the man who has lost his mind?

他打電話給 ABC 新聞臺說："你是說那個失去理智的人？

He went over to Fox, repeating that attack, saying Musk has totally lost it.

他跑到福克斯電視臺，重複了這一攻擊，說馬斯克已經完全失去了理智。

And the White House is saying Trump doesn't even want that Tesla anymore.

白宮表示，特朗普甚至不再想要那輛特斯拉了。

The Tesla that he blatantly hawked on the White House lawn.

他在白宮草坪上公然兜售的特斯拉。

Again, it would all seem like a petty reality show storyline if this wasn't the people's business, but they're putting out word he doesn't want it.

再說一遍，如果這不是人民的事，這一切就像是一個瑣碎的真人秀故事情節，但他們卻放出風聲說他不想要。

MAGA, meanwhile, is in a clash because it's two leaders, or two dads, or whatever you want to call it, are fighting in a way that doesn't leave it easy for people to pick sides.

與此同時，MAGA 正處於衝突之中，因為它的兩位領導人，或者兩位父親，或者隨便你怎麼稱呼它，正在以一種不容易讓人選邊站的方式進行鬥爭。

Remember, there is the Republican Party and all of that sort of official stuff, but then there's the wider MAGA movement, which includes people who come out of broadcasting, podcasting, activism, and a lot of them like Elon Musk.

請記住，有共和黨和所有這些官方的東西，但也有更廣泛的 MAGA 運動，其中包括從廣播、播客和激進主義中走出來的人，他們中的很多人都喜歡埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）。

They've certainly spent months with him as the co-pilot, but they also appreciated his money and his activities last year, and so it's not so easy for them to just pick sides, especially with how fast this is unfurled.

作為副駕駛，他們當然與他共度了幾個月的時光，但他們也很欣賞他的錢和他去年的活動，是以，要他們選邊站並不那麼容易，尤其是這件事的發展速度如此之快。

Take Trump's FBI director, Kash Patel, who has some government experience, but also saw himself as a kind of a mini-Musk going around the country, hawking different things, using X constantly, and he ended up learning some of the details about the smears in real time on, of course, appropriately, Joe Rogan's hit podcast.

以特朗普的聯邦調查局局長卡什-帕特爾（Kash Patel）為例，他有一定的政府工作經驗，但也把自己看成是一個小馬斯克，在全國各地兜售各種東西，不斷使用 X，最後他在喬-羅根（Joe Rogan）的熱門播客上實時瞭解到了一些抹黑的細節，當然，這也是恰如其分的。

This is gonna come up, because it's been going on since we've been recording here.

這是會出現的，因為自從我們在這裡錄音以來，它就一直存在。

Elon and Trump seem to be in a bit of a spat, Joe.

喬，埃隆和特朗普似乎有點爭執。

You wanna check the tweet that Elon just put out a little bit ago?

你想看看伊隆不久前剛發的那條推特嗎？

是時候投下真正的重磅炸彈了。

唐納德-特朗普在愛潑斯坦的檔案中。

That's the real reason they have not been made public.

這才是它們沒有被公開的真正原因。

I'm not participating in any of that conversation between Elon and Trump.

我沒有參與伊隆和特朗普之間的任何對話。

I'm just staying out of the Trump-Elon thing.

我只是不插手特朗普和埃隆的事。

我知道我的方向，但不是這樣。

You can say everyone's always performing to some degree, but you can kind of feel the palpable discomfort.

你可以說每個人在某種程度上都在表演，但你能感覺到那種明顯的不適。

Remember, Musk and Trump have been on Joe Rogan's show with some of the most viewed episodes ever, which is the type of thing they track.

請記住，馬斯克和特朗普曾在喬-羅根（Joe Rogan）的節目中出現過一些有史以來收視率最高的節目，這正是他們追蹤的類型。

Common in all media to track that, and Joe Rogan almost doesn't know what to do with it.

喬-羅根幾乎不知道該如何處理。

The FBI director says quite plainly he's not getting involved.

聯邦調查局局長明確表示他不會插手。

Trump has also been pressed about these accusations, although here you'll see the mics go dead.

特朗普也被追問過這些指控，不過在這裡你會看到麥克風都沒了。

We're gonna have a little discussion now, very private, and I just wanna thank you all for being here, and thank you very much, media.

我們現在要進行一些討論，非常私下的，我只想感謝大家的到來，也非常感謝媒體朋友們。

Mr. President, I'm gonna respond for one last thing.

主席先生，我最後再回答一個問題。

I'm gonna have to get some time to talk to you.

That's one question this president is not taking.

這是這位總統沒有回答的一個問題。

Now, you can see the clear outlines of why this matters, even as there has been so much mockery and sort of people just sort of enjoying aspects of it or a schadenfreude aspect of it, but there's a lot of real-world implications, and remember, it began, allegedly or ostensibly, with Musk being mad about the economic bill, the spending, and he's been pretty blunt, saying he didn't get enough for his companies, which is a reminder that for all the talk of efficiency or cutting waste, fraud, and abuse, the thing that has him the most upset isn't anything he claimed that his agency was about or the fixes he wanted to make for the American people.

現在，你可以看到為什麼這很重要的清晰輪廓，即使有這麼多的嘲弄和排序的人只是有點享受它的方面或它的一個幸災樂禍的方面，但有很多現實世界的影響，請記住，它開始，據稱或表面上，馬斯克是瘋了的經濟法案、他直言不諱地表示，他的公司沒有得到足夠的好處，這提醒人們，儘管他一直在談論效率或減少浪費、欺詐和濫用，但讓他最不高興的事情並不是他聲稱的他的機構的目的，也不是他想為美國人民做的事情。

Didn't take long for him to publicly, blatantly admit that the real dividing line is whether he gets enough money out of the government, and so Republican lawmakers have been stuck with the bill, the bag, the drama of this, as they still try to get the original legislation over the finish line.

沒過多久，他就公開承認，真正的分界線在於他是否能從政府那裡得到足夠的錢，是以共和黨議員們一直被法案、包袱、戲劇性的事情纏身，因為他們仍在努力讓最初的立法通過終點線。

The blow-up that happened this week was very surprising, disappointing to me.

本週發生的爆炸讓我感到非常意外和失望。

I think a lot of people said they knew it was inevitable, you know, and here we are.

我想很多人都說，他們知道這是不可避免的，你知道，而我們就在這裡。

I don't think lashing out on the internet is the way to handle any kind of disagreement, especially when you have each other's cell phones.

我不認為在網上發火是處理任何分歧的方式，尤其是當你們都有對方的手機時。

I trust the math from the guy that lands rockets backwards over the politicians.

我相信那個讓火箭在政客頭上倒著降落的人的計算。

I'll tell you what, Elon, this is what I'll do.

我告訴你，埃隆，這就是我要做的。

來德克薩斯州第22選區，對吧？

I'll pay your filing fee and run against me.

我會支付你的申請費，然後和我競選。

I mean, it's just going off the deep end.

He's taken the high ground with Elon in the back-and-forth online.

在網絡上的你來我往中，他佔據了制高點。

The battle between Elon Musk and President Trump has gotten incredibly ugly, and it's deeply, deeply unfortunate.

埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）和特朗普總統之間的爭鬥變得異常醜陋，這令人深感不幸。

我認為美國人不願意看到這一點。

Not sure that all of America hates to see it.

不知道全美國是否都討厭看到這一幕。

People have certainly been tuning into aspects of it and feeling like maybe these two people who were so self-interested, who are now fighting over their self-interest, are proving some of the problems with these kind of folks in charge.

人們當然會關注其中的一些方面，並覺得這兩個人曾經是如此利己，現在又在為自己的利益而爭鬥，這證明了這類掌權者的一些問題。

That's been one of the obvious reactions and criticisms, but you can just see how this is a big problem for Republicans.

這是顯而易見的反應和責備之一，但你可以看到這對共和黨人來說是個大問題。

Musk also clashing with Trump ally Steve Bannon, who called on Trump to both deport Musk, which probably is not lawful based on his status, and also seize one of his companies, SpaceX, which again, might sound like rhetoric, but we're in a Trump era where they have been breaking rules left and right.

馬斯克也與特朗普的盟友史蒂夫·班農發生衝突，後者呼籲特朗普驅逐馬斯克（根據他的身份，這可能不符合法律），並扣押他的公司之一——SpaceX。這種說法可能聽起來只是政治修辭，但我們身處特朗普時代，在這個環境下，人們肆意違規，打破規則。

So you kind of have to face the music if you want to take it seriously.

是以，如果你想認真對待，就必須面對現實。

And remember, these are tools they have threatened others with.

請記住，這些都是他們用來威脅他人的工具。

Now they're threatening someone that was their ally as of last week.

現在，他們又在威脅上週還是他們盟友的人。

Musk continued to attack online, which is of course where he has followers and influence, which drives all kinds of traction, and he bashed Bannon in several posts of his own.

馬斯克繼續在網上進行攻擊，當然，這是他擁有粉絲和影響力的地方，從而推動了各種牽引力，他在自己的幾個帖子中抨擊了班農。

I want to tell them if they're both watching, knock it off.

我想告訴他們，如果他們倆都在看，就別看了。

Look, there's nothing anyone can do about it.

你知道，這讓很多人感到悲傷。

Guys sometimes will punch you in the face and the next night you're having a beer.

有時候，男人們會打你的臉，而第二天晚上你們就可以喝啤酒了。

I think that Donald Trump and Elon Musk, they'll work it out eventually.

我認為，唐納德-特朗普和埃隆-馬斯克最終會解決這個問題。

I mean, Vance called Trump Hitler and he's on the ticket.

我是說，萬斯稱特朗普為希特勒，而他卻在選票上。

That is true, but it also speaks to the way this has all been so transactional.

事實的確如此，但這也說明了這一切都是如此的交易性。

而這一切都發生在特朗普的第一個任期內。

It is very hard for people to work with, alongside or for Donald Trump.

人們很難與唐納德-特朗普合作、並肩作戰或為其工作。

Junior aides, lawyers, powerful men of industry like Elon Musk.

初級助手、律師、像埃隆-馬斯克（Elon Musk）這樣的業界權貴。

It doesn't seem to matter where you are in the hierarchy or what the project is.

這似乎與你在層級中的位置或項目無關。

We have seen this pattern play out again and again and again.

我們看到這種模式一而再、再而三地上演。

And it raises questions about the fitness of the president.

這也引發了對總統是否合適的質疑。