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  • This week on Scam School, we learn how to lie!

  • You liar!

  • You lying liar who lies!

  • This episode of Scam School brought to you

  • by Go Daddy and Netflix.

  • Go to www.netflix.com/scamschool for your free trial membership.

  • Welcome to the only show that's less honest than your tax

  • returns.

  • Scam School, the only show dedicated

  • to social engineering at the bar and on the street.

  • I'm your host, Brian Brushwood, and this

  • is a subject I have wanted to cover

  • since day one of Scam School.

  • It's finally happening-- we are starting

  • a two-part interview with Clark Freshman, professor of law

  • and expert in facial expressions and lying.

  • Oh my god, you have no idea how excited

  • I am to cover this topic, finally.

  • We are here with none other than Clark Freshman, professor

  • of law and what, lie detection?

  • What's your exact category?

  • Professor of law.

  • We're all professors of law and nothing else.

  • OK, but you are an expert in--

  • Negotiation in lie detection and emotion.

  • And so you're from University of California Hastings, right?

  • Correct.

  • So originally I put out to Twitter,

  • I said, I'm looking for someone who's

  • the best at lie detection, who happens to be maybe

  • in the northern California area.

  • Turns out you're right in our backyard

  • and this worked out so perfect.

  • Tell me about what you do.

  • So what I do is I mostly teach negotiation in law school.

  • And I started studying about a decade

  • ago emotion in negotiation.

  • And then about five six years ago,

  • moved that into telling whether people

  • are lying during negotiation, and telling

  • whether the techniques you're using,

  • the pitches you're using, would actually work.

  • So it's the same thing selling cars,

  • as trying to persuade a judge, as trying

  • to pick up someone in a bar.

  • It's all the same of figuring out

  • where is their traction in what you're saying.

  • What is the first thing we should know in negotiation

  • and figuring out who's lying?

  • Well, a couple places you could start.

  • The first way I would say is become aware

  • of everyone's baseline.

  • Part of that will be the voice.

  • So your voice is relatively loud, and your voice is--

  • I prefer energetic.

  • --relatively fast.

  • My voice is relatively fast.

  • So let's take a look at voice.

  • When you figure out what somebody's baseline is and then

  • we see when they're acting differently

  • from their baseline, that tells us something's going on.

  • Doesn't necessarily mean that they're lying.

  • Could be that they're lying, could

  • be that they're more interested-- we don't know.

  • Face is another one.

  • So yours, a relatively animated face

  • from what I can tell right now.

  • You're now smiling from the lower part of your face,

  • so that is not a hit.

  • So right now you're not sincerely happy.

  • You're acting polite.

  • But there's no movement in the upper part of your-- now

  • you just got some movement in the upper part of your face,

  • so now it's actually moving.

  • So these muscles that push up your cheekbones,

  • these are the ones that reveal there's a sincere smile as

  • opposed to a flight attendant smile

  • if they're smiling like that.

  • Wow.

  • Doesn't mean they're faking it, right?

  • So we live in a society of politeness.

  • So people do these kind of deference

  • smiles, polite smiles.

  • And they're not being fake, they're just not "felt" smiles.

  • That's not "felt" happiness.

  • Just another accessory.

  • And your nod right here.

  • Some people are nodders.

  • Some people are not nodders.

  • Let's suppose we're talking, and you're nodding all along.

  • And then I say something about, god, Sarah Palin, what a bitch,

  • and you stop nodding at that point.

  • And that might tell you, huh, could be a Republican,

  • could be brain dead.

  • We don't now at that point, we just

  • know that there's something different about the Sarah

  • Palin.

  • I talk with my hands, some people don't.

  • I stop talking with my hands, that's a soft spot.

  • We want to investigate that.

  • Why is that?

  • Could be that I'm stopping talking with my hands

  • because I'm having to think harder.

  • Well, that could be because you've

  • asked me something embarrassing.

  • Why did your last relationship end?

  • I'm embarrassed.

  • I'm not lying, but I'm trying to figure out

  • what am I going to share with you.

  • But that is also a clue of deception.

  • It doesn't mean a person is lying.

  • But when they stop talking with their hands as they usually do,

  • soft spot could be that they're lying.

  • We've got voice, we've got talking with their hands,

  • we've got their face, and we've got verbal style.

  • So, so far I said this, so that means

  • that I speak relatively informally.

  • If I started speaking relatively formally,

  • that would be a problem.

  • If you start in the middle of one of your episodes

  • saying, well, whereas this is what you said last time,

  • I'm noticing a certain inconsistency, indeed,

  • a certain postmodern milieu of inconsistency.

  • Then you might think, oh, that's inconsistent with Brian's

  • usual verbal style.

  • Brian sounds smart today.

  • Who is this guy?

  • Right.

  • Who is that guy.

  • Great.

  • So now you changed your voice a little bit there.

  • You're talking more deeply.

  • You just started drinking.

  • So that's a little bit of a clue it's off these five things,

  • but it can also fit within baseline.

  • But for a normal person who has better things

  • to do with their time, when they start reaching for the water,

  • or they cough, or they swallow, this is a sign of arousal.

  • And arousal could be that they're sexually aroused,

  • but it could also be the stress response has kicked in.

  • That's a sign that I'm making the person uncomfortable.

  • If I'm trying to sell you something,

  • I'm trying to get you to take one of my workshops

  • in lie detection and you start doing that, I would think,

  • oh, this person is not so comfortable,

  • let me try something else.

  • Now, the last technique, besides verbal style,

  • is verbal content.

  • Another example of verbal content changing

  • is you stay on topic for all the others,

  • but then for one you start meandering around.

  • It reminds you of something.

  • So let's say the conversation seems

  • to be angling towards a certain direction, and then

  • all of a sudden out of nowhere--

  • You switch.

  • --it takes a side.

  • Yeah.

  • Just a recap, the baseline, the things

  • you've got to pay attention to, there was the voice.

  • Voice was number one we talked about.

  • So we've got the face is the second one,

  • and that becomes very important on its own.

  • We've got verbal style.

  • We've got body movements.

  • And we've got verbal content.

  • Those are the five basic ones that we're looking at.

  • And basically establishing a baseline

  • just means paying attention and making a mental note of what

  • seems to be what they do naturally

  • in all of those five categories?