was with a woman who told me

人生中最讓我振奮的一段對話，

how, a few days earlier,

是一個女人告訴我，

she drove her Jeep Wrangler to the edge of the Grand Canyon

幾天前，她如何

and sat there, revving the engine,

開著她的吉普車到大峽谷的邊緣，

thinking about driving over.

坐在那裡，加快引擎的轉速，

Even though I had severe social anxiety,

想著開車衝下去。

in that conversation, I was totally at ease.

雖然我有過嚴重的社交焦慮症，

(Laughter)

在那段對談中，我非常安然自在。

She told me what was going on in her life

（笑聲）

in the days and months leading up,

她告訴我，她開車中去大峽谷之前，

what her thoughts were at that exact moment,

那幾個月經歷了什麼事、

why she wanted to die,

那一瞬間她的想法是什麼、

and why she didn't do it.

為什麼她想尋死，

We nodded and half-smiled,

以及她為何沒有衝下去。

and then it was my turn to talk about my journey

我們點頭微笑著，

to a dining table in the hygienic community area

接著就換我講述我的經歷了，

of the mental health wing of a mountain-town hospital.

那是在山城醫院的心理衛生部門，

I took too many sleeping pills,

一張公共衛生區的餐桌上。

and after they treated me for that,

我吃了太多的安眠藥，

they were like, "Hey, we would love it if you would be our guest

院方幫我治療之後，

in the psych ward."

他們說：「嘿，我們 很希望你能夠來我們的

(Laughter)

精神病房做客。」

We joked that her suicide would have made a way better postcard.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

我們開玩笑說她自殺的照片 可以做成相當不錯的明信片。

We talked shop.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

我們談論本行。

She allowed me to be deeply depressed

（笑聲）

and have a genuine connection to another person, simultaneously.

她容許我有深刻的憂鬱，

For the first time,

同時還能和另一個人有真誠的連結。

I identified as somebody living with depression,

這是第一次，

and I felt good about it --

身為帶著憂鬱症過日子的人，

like I was wasn't a bad person for it.

我卻感覺很好 ──

Now imagine one of the people at that table was a member of your family

彷彿我並不會因為它而變成壞人。

or a close friend.

想像一下，同桌的 其中一個人是你的家人，

Would you be comfortable talking to them?

或是親密的朋友。

What if instead of the hospital,

你跟他們說話時會自在嗎？

they were at your kitchen table

如果不是在醫院，

and told you they were really depressed?

他們是坐在你的廚房餐桌，

The World Health Organization

告訴你他們真的很憂鬱呢？

says that depression is the leading cause of ill health and disability worldwide,

世界衛生組織說，

affecting 350 million people.

憂鬱症是造成全球民眾不健康 以及身心障礙的主要成因，

The National Institute of Mental Health

有三億五千萬人深受其害。

reports seven percent of Americans experiencing depression in a year.

美國國家心理衛生研究院

So depression is super common,

指出在一年中有 7% 的 美國人經歷過憂鬱症。

yet in my experience,

所以，憂鬱症是非常普遍的，

most folks don't want to talk to depressed people

但依我的經驗，

unless we pretend to be happy.

大部分的人並不想和憂鬱的人說話，

A cheerful facade is appropriate for casual interactions.

除非我們假裝自己很快樂。

A depressed person can ask for extra syrup in their pumpkin spice latte

平常與人互動時， 做出愉快的表相才適當。

without explaining that they need it

憂鬱的人可以要求在他們的 南瓜香料拿鐵中加入額外的糖漿，

because they're trapped in the infinite darkness of their soul

且不用解釋為何他們需要它，

and they've lost all hope of escape --

因為他們被困在 自己靈魂的無盡黑暗中，

(Laughter)

且失去了所有逃脫的希望－

again.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

再一次地。

Depression doesn't diminish a person's desire

（笑聲）

to connect with other people,

憂鬱並不會減少一個人

just their ability.

與他人交流的渴望，

So in spite of what you might think,

只是影響到交際能力而已。

talking to friends and family living with depression

事實跟你想的其實不太一樣，

can be really easy and maybe even fun.

和患有憂鬱症的朋友及家人說話

Not, like, Facebook-selfie-with-Lady-Gaga- at-an-underground-party fun --

可以是很容易、甚至是很有趣的。

I'm talking about the kind of fun

並不是像「在臉書上貼與女神卡卡 在地下派對中的自拍」那種有趣──

where people enjoy each other's company effortlessly.

我在談的有趣，

Nobody feels awkward,

是人們毫不費力地享受彼此的倍伴。

and no one accuses the sad person of ruining the holidays.

沒有人覺得尷尬，

Why does this chasm even exist?

沒有人會指控悲傷的 那個人把假日給毀了。

On the one side,

但為什麼這種隔閡會存在？

you have people living with depression

在一邊，

who may act in off-putting or confusing ways

是有憂鬱症的人，

because they're fighting a war in their head

他們行事的方式可能會 令人厭惡或讓人困惑，

that nobody else can see.

因為他們腦袋中正在打一場仗，

On the other side,

這是別人都看不見的。

the vast majority of people look across the chasm

另一邊，

and shake their heads,

是絕大部分的人望著隔閡的另一頭，

like, "Why you gotta be so depressed?"

一邊搖頭，

You may recognize a divide like this in your life.

說：「你們幹嘛這麼憂鬱？」

Do you want to build a bridge across it?

在你們生活中可能會看見這種隔閡。

You may not want to build a bridge --

你們想要架座橋來跨越它嗎？

and that's a totally valid choice.

你們可能不會想架座橋──

Or maybe you'd like to build a stronger connection,

那是個百分百合理的選擇。

but you have a lot of questions and concerns.

或者你想要建立比較強的連結交流，

You're what I might call "bridge curious."

但你有很多的疑問和擔心的事。

(Laughter)

這種人被我稱為是「好奇的橋」。

Here are some possible reasons

（笑聲）

why some of you may avoid depressed people.

以下是一些可能的原因，

You might be afraid

說明為什麼你們有些人 會想要避開憂鬱症的人。

that if you talk to somebody while they're depressed,

你可能會害怕

you're suddenly responsible for their well-being.

如果你去跟一個憂鬱症患者說話，

You're not expected to be Dr. Phil.

突然間你就要為他們的幸福負責了。

Just be friendly --

並沒有人期待你成為 心理治療大師費爾醫生。

more like Ellen.

你只要表現出友善態度就好，

(Laughter)

像脫口秀主持人艾倫那樣就可以。

You may worry that you won't know what to say,

（笑聲）

and every attempt at conversation will be awkward,

你可能會擔心不知道要說什麼，

and the only time you'll feel comfortable

每一次嘗試交談都會很尷尬，

is when you both just give up on talking

而只有一種時候你會覺得舒適，

and stare at your phones.

就是你們雙方都放棄交談，

Words are not the most important thing to focus on.

盯著各自的手機看時。

You might fear seeing your shadow.

交談並非互動中最重要的東西。

Hey, if you have been successfully outrunning

你可能會害怕看見自己的影子。

your personal emotional demons,

嘿，如果你曾經成功地

that's awesome.

從自己的情緒惡魔手中逃脫過，

May the wind be at your back.

那很棒。

(Laughter)

願你永遠一帆風順。

You can be the least woo-woo person in the world

（笑聲）

and still connect with depressed people.

就算你是世上最不嗨的人，

Maybe you've heard that depression is contagious,

仍可以和有憂鬱症的人連結交流。

and you're afraid of catching it.

也許你聽過憂鬱會傳染，

Bring some hand sanitizer.

而你害怕會感染到。

(Laughter)

那就帶一些乾洗手液。

You're much more likely to catch the joy of human bonding.

（笑聲）

Maybe you see depressed people differently.

你較有可能感染到的 會是人際交流的喜悅。

You think of them as flawed or defective.

也許你對憂鬱症的人有不同看法。

Multiple university studies have shown

你認為他們有瑕疵或缺陷。

that A students are more likely to have bipolar condition.

數篇大學研究指出，

Our brains aren't broken or damaged,

成績優秀的學生較可能有躁鬱症狀。

they just work differently.

我們的大腦並沒有壞掉或受損，

I spent a lot of years thinking happy people just don't get it.

只是運作方式不同。

(Laughter)

我一直覺得那些樂天的人就是搞不懂。

I did eventually stop discriminating against happy people --

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

我最後停止了歧視快樂的人──

I began battling depression when I was eight,

（笑聲）

and decades later, to my surprise,

我從八歲時就開始對抗憂鬱症，

I started winning.

數十年後，讓我很訝異的是，

I shifted from being miserable much of the time

我開始佔上風了。

to enjoying life.

我從經常沉溺在憂傷的情緒中，

I live pretty well with my bipolar condition,

到變成能享受人生。

and I've overcome some other mental health conditions

我和我的躁鬱症狀和平相處，

like overeating, addiction and social anxiety.

我還克服了一些其他心理健康症狀，

So I live on both sides of this chasm.

比如暴飲暴食、成癮症， 以及社交焦慮症。

And I'm offering some guidance

所以我活在這隔閡的兩邊。

based on my experience

我想提供一些指南，

to help you build a bridge across it

它們是以我的經驗為基礎，

if you want to.

能協助你們搭橋跨越這隔閡，

It's not hard science,

如果你們想要的話。

but I worked with a lot people I know who've lived with depression

這不是硬科學，

to refine these suggestions.

我和許多患有憂鬱症的人通力合作，

First up, some things you might want to avoid --

琢磨出這些建議給大家。

some "don'ts."

首先，你會想要避免這些東西──

One of the most off-putting things you can say is,

一些「不該做的事」。

"Just get over it."

最討人厭的一句話就是：

Great idea -- love it,

「就克服它吧。」

it's just we already thought of that.

好主意──我喜歡，

(Laughter)

只是我們早就想過這方法了。

The absence of the ability to just get over it is depression.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

所謂的憂鬱症， 就是缺乏克服它的能力。

(Applause)

（笑聲）

We feel it in our bodies --

（掌聲）

it's a physical thing for us.

我們能感覺到憂鬱就在我們的體內──

And medically it's no different

它對我們來說是實體的。

from telling someone with a broken ankle or cancer,

在醫學上，這就類似是

"just get over it."

告訴一個腳踝斷裂或得癌症的人：

Don't be hell-bent on fixing us.

「就克服它吧。」

Like, thank you, but ...

不要固執地想要把我們治好。

the pressure can make us depressed people feel like we're disappointing you.

我是指，謝謝你，但......

Also, things that make some people feel better

這種壓力會讓我們這些憂鬱症的人 覺得我們好像讓你失望了。

may not work for us.

而且，能讓某些人提振情緒的事物，

You can't cure clinical depression by getting ice cream ...

對我們可能沒有用。

which is unfortunate, because that would be living the dream.

你無法用冰淇淋來治癒臨床憂鬱症…

(Laughter)

很可惜，不然對我們而言 那會是美夢成真。

Don't take a negative response personally.

（笑聲）

So, I have a friend who, about a year ago,

別人有負面反應的話， 不要覺得是在針對你。

messaged me that he was really isolated and depressed.

我有個朋友，大約一年前，

And I suggested some things for him to do,

傳訊息給我說他覺得被孤立、很憂鬱。

and he was like, "No, no and no."

我建議了一些他可以做的事，

And I got mad,

他的反應是：「不，不，不。」

like, how dare he not embrace my brilliant wisdom?

我生氣了，

(Laughter)

心想，他算老幾，怎麼可以 不接受我聰慧的建議呢？

And then I remembered times I've been depressed,

（笑聲）

and how I thought I was doomed in all possible futures,

接著我想起自己憂鬱的時候，

or everybody suddenly hated me, and things like that.

那時我認為未來注定只有厄運，

It didn't matter how many people told me otherwise --

或是每個人都會突然討厭我之類的。

I didn't believe them.

不論多少人告訴我：｢不會這樣的｣，

So I let my friend know I cared,

我就是不相信他們。

and I didn't take it personally.

所以，我讓我的朋友知道我在乎他，

Don't let a lack of bubbly happiness freak you out.

我不會把他的負面反應放在心上。

It's not a shark attack.

不要因為沒有夢幻的幸福， 就被嚇壞了。

"Call the coast guard, my friend is sad!"

那又不是鯊魚攻擊。

(Laughter)

「快呼叫海岸巡防員， 我朋友在悲傷了！」

We can be sad and OK at the same time.

（笑聲）

I'm going to say that again,

其實傷心也沒有關係的。

because in our society, we're taught the opposite,

我要再說一次，

and so it's counterintuitive.

因為在我們的社會中， 學到完全相反的概念，

People can be sad and OK at the same time.

所以覺得那是違背直覺的事。

So some of these things may apply to you personally, some may not.

但人有傷心情緒是沒有關係的。

Take what's useful.

以上這些有的可能適用於你， 有的不適用。

And remember, you don't have to connect.

挑對你有用的。

If you want to,

切記，你不用非得與人交流。

here are some suggestions that may help --

如果你想要，

some "dos."

以下是一些建議，可能會有幫助──

Talk to us in your natural voice, right?

一些「該做的事」。

(Laughter)

用你自然的聲音跟我們說話，好嗎？

You don't need to put on a sad voice because we're depressed --

（笑聲）

you don't sneeze when you're talking to somebody with a cold.

你不用因為我們很憂鬱 就用悲傷的聲音說話。

(Laughter)

你跟感冒的人說話時， 也不會打噴嚏吧。

It's not rude to be upbeat.

（笑聲）

You can be you, OK?

樂觀並不是無禮。

If you make an offer to be there for us,

你可以做自己，好嗎？

clearly state what you can and can't do.

如果你願意為我們盡一份力，

I have told people, "Hey, call or text any time,

那就明確說清楚你 能做什麼、不能做什麼。

but I might not be able to get back to you that same day."

我曾告訴別人： 「嘿，隨時都可打電話或傳訊息給我，

It's totally cool to not make an offer,

但我可能無法在當天回覆你。」

or to make a narrow offer with really clear boundaries around it.

不提供任何協助也完全沒關係，

Give us a sense of control.

或提供清楚有限的協助也可以。

Like, get our consent.

給我們控制感。

I have a friend who, a while back,

比如，取得我們的同意。

when I was having a depressive episode,

我有個朋友，前陣子，

reached out and said, "Hey, I want to check in with you.

我憂鬱症發作的時候，

Can I call you every day?

她跟我說：「嘿，我想確認你沒事。

Maybe text you every day and call later in the week?

我能否每天打電話給你？

What works for you?"

也許每天傳訊息給你， 過幾天再打電話？

By getting my permission, she earned my complete confidence

怎樣做你比較方便？」

and remains one of my best friends today.

因為先徵詢我的同意， 她得到了我完全的信任，

And my last suggestion is:

至今仍然是我最好的朋友之一。

interact about not depression,

我的最後一個建議是：

aka, normal stuff.

針對「不是憂鬱症」的東西來互動，

I have a friend who, when people were worried about him,

也就是，一般日常的東西。

they would call and ask if he wanted to go shopping

我有一個朋友，那時大家很擔心他，

or help them clean out their garage.

他們會打電話問他要不要去購物，

Your depressed friends could be a good source of free labor --

或協助他們打掃車庫。

(Laughter)

你的憂鬱症朋友也能成為 很好的免費勞力來源──

What I'm really getting at is,

（笑聲）

invite them to contribute to your life in some way,

我真正想說的是，

even if it's as small as asking you to go see a movie

邀請他們跟你一起做事情，

that you wanted to see in the theater.

即使是很小的事， 比如找他們去看一場

So that's a lot of dos and don'ts and maybes,

你想要去電影院看的電影。

and it's not by any means a definitive list.

所以，那是很多的「該做」 和「不該做」和「也許」，

The thing to remember is that they're all grounded

這份清單並不是絕對的。

in one guiding principle.

要記得的是，

It's what allowed the woman in the Jeep Wrangler

它們都是基於一條指導原則。

to start me on the path to recovery without even trying.

就是它，讓吉普車女子

She talked to me like I belonged

不費吹灰之力就使我踏上復原之路。

and contributed exactly as I was at that moment.

她當時對我說話的方式，

If you talk to a depressed person as if their life is just as valuable,

讓我感受到真實的自己 被人重視與理解。

intense and beautiful as yours,

如果你和憂鬱症的人說話時， 能把他們的人生視為

then there's no need to build a bridge between you,

和你的一樣有價值、熱情、美麗，

because you've closed the chasm.

那麼你們之間根本不需要刻意搭橋，

Focus on that instead of your words,

因為你已經消除隔閡了。

and it may be the most uplifting conversation of their life.

專注在這一點上，而非你所說的話，

What could that do for somebody you care about?

那就有可能是他們 人生中最振奮的一段談話。

What could it do for you?

這會對你所關心的人 產生什麼樣的影響？

Thank you.

這能對你產生什麼樣的影響？

(Applause)

謝謝。