Name: 這不是俠盜獵車手，這是真實人生！ BBC《現場論壇》：美伊戰爭解析 ('This is not Grand Theft Auto, these are real lives' - US-Israel war with Iran | BBC Question Time)
Uploaded: 2026-03-20T21:52:55.000Z
Duration: 17 min 22 s

這是真實的人民，真實的生活。

And yet you get the sense from what's coming from the White House as if this is some big game.

但從白宮傳來的消息，你會覺得這像是一場大遊戲。

Should President Trump accept that attacking Iran was a mistake?

川普總統應該承認攻擊伊朗是個錯誤嗎？

So, so many of you want to talk about what is going on between Iran, Israel and the US and how much we're going to get dragged into it.

所以，有好多好多你們想討論伊朗、以色列和美國之間正在發生的事，以及我們會有多少被捲入其中。

So we'll park that for a moment, if you will.

所以我們暫時先擱置這個話題，好嗎？

But should President Trump accept that attacking Iran was a mistake?

但川普總統應該承認攻擊伊朗是個錯誤嗎？

Well, evidently we think so because we chose not to join in.

嗯，顯然我們這麼認為，因為我們選擇不加入。

And this Prime Minister is one of a very small number of British prime ministers in our history who has chosen not to follow the United States on a big call like this.

而這位首相是我們歷史上極少數沒有在重大決策上跟隨美國的英國首相之一。

So while I have absolutely no doubt about the nature of the Iranian regime, the threat that they pose, the actions of their proxies, there was a process underway that we believed needed more time.

所以，雖然我對伊朗政權的本質、他們構成的威脅、以及他們代理人的行動毫無疑問，但當時有一個進程正在進行，我們認為需要更多時間。

And that's why the Prime Minister made the judgment that he did.

這就是為什麼首相做了他所做的判斷。

In contrast, we had Kemi Badenoch and Nigel Farage attack the government in very strident terms in those early days, saying we should have joined the war in Iran, only barely a week later say, actually, no, we shouldn't.

相較之下，我們看到 Kemi Badenoch 和 Nigel Farage 在早期以非常嚴厲的 terms 攻擊政府，說我們應該加入伊朗的戰爭，但不到一週後又說，其實不應該。

Now, I accept that they have every right to change their mind, but leadership requires two things, judgment and backbone.

現在，我承認他們有權改變主意，但領導力需要兩樣東西：判斷力和骨氣。

And Kemi Badenoch and Nigel Farage have shown neither.

而 Kemi Badenoch 和 Nigel Farage 都沒有展現出來。

In this instance, The party leader who changed their mind was the Prime Minister, was Keir Starmer.

在這個例子中，改變主意的政黨領袖是首相，也就是 Keir Starmer。

He was the person who originally said, when President Trump said, could the US Use British air bases, he said no.

他就是當川普總統問美國是否可以使用英國空軍基地時，他最初說「不行」的那個人。

And then he changed his mind and said, oh, yes.

然後他又改變主意說，「喔，可以。」

After all, he's the one who's been flip flopping, who is weak.

畢竟，他就是那個搖擺不定、軟弱無能的人。

I'm concerned about it for my constituents and for the country because we live in a dangerous world at a time when we need a strong leader.

我對此感到擔憂，不僅是為了我的選民，也是為了國家，因為我們生活在一個危險的世界，現在需要一位強而有力的領導人。

And at the moment, we have a weak and indecisive leader.

而此刻，我們卻有一位軟弱且猶豫不決的領導人。

RAF jets need to do more than shoot down missiles and drones.

英國皇家空軍的戰機需要做的，不只是擊落飛彈和無人機。

She also said, we're in this war whether you like it or not.

她也說了，不管你喜不喜歡，我們都捲入這場戰爭了。

So the point that Kemi was making there is that we have bases in the Middle east and we have troops There who are being fired at by Iran.

所以 Kemi 那裡的意思是，我們在中東有基地，也有部隊在那裡，正遭到伊朗的攻擊。

When she said, you need to go to the source, the source was Iran.

當她說，你們需要追根究柢時，那個根源就是伊朗。

So she was suggesting, I assume the RF jets need to do more than shoot down missiles.

所以她是在建議，我猜測皇家空軍的戰機需要做的，不只是擊落飛彈。

They need to go to the source that is Iran.

它們需要去追溯那個根源，也就是伊朗。

So, so the point there is Iran is attacking our people.

所以，所以那裡的重點是，伊朗正在攻擊我們的人民。

She's not saying that we need to therefore attack Iran.

她並不是說，我們是以就需要攻擊伊朗。

So when we're being attacked, she was saying it's not just about intercepting those drones, missiles, it's also about trying to stop them being fired.

所以當我們被攻擊時，她說的重點不只是攔截那些無人機、飛彈，還有要設法阻止它們被發射。

So, yes, we should be stopping those missiles being fired at us.

所以，是的，我們應該阻止那些朝我們發射的飛彈。

So we should have joined in to stop the missiles being fired.

所以我們應該加入來阻止飛彈發射。

So she was clear that she, that Keir Starmer should have said to the us, our allies, that we have assets and Iran is an enemy and, and they should use those.

所以她很清楚，她說基爾·斯塔默應該告訴美國，我們的盟友，我們有資產，伊朗是敵人，他們應該使用這些資產。

She would not have been for a proactive preemptive attack.

她不會主張主動先發制人的攻擊。

You know, hang on, hang on, hang on, hang on.

你知道，等等，等等，等等，等等。

Let's just be completely clear about this.

She said, just think of the hokey cokey and it all makes sense.

她說，想想那個hokey cokey（一種舞蹈遊戲），一切就都明白了。

The position this is here was clear from the.

He said we wouldn't join the war, but we would take defensive action.

他說我們不會加入戰爭，但我們會採取防禦行動。

I was going to explain something I'm not going to suggest.

我本來要解釋一些我不會提出的建議。

Clearly a conflict situation is going to be complicated and it's worth spending some time explaining it.

明顯地，衝突情況會很複雜，值得花點時間解釋。

Cameron was not saying that we should be involved in proactive attacks.

卡麥隆並沒有說我們應該參與主動攻擊。

What she's saying is when we are being attacked, of course we should do something about that.

她說的是，當我們受到攻擊時，當然我們應該有所作為。

相較之下，Keir Starmer 被親吻了。

Keir Starmer saying we shouldn't be involved.

We have got assets there, we have got troops there and we should be defending them.

我們在那裡有資產，有軍隊，我們應該要保衛他們。

And the Prime Minister was clear from the outset we wouldn't join the war in Iran.

首相從一開始就說得很清楚，我們不會加入伊朗的戰爭。

But when it comes to protecting our people, our interests and our allies, we would act.

但當涉及到保護我們的人民、我們的利益和我們的盟友時，我們會採取行動。

What happened was Kenny Badenot chose to use an international conflict to score cheap political points.

發生的是 Kemi Badenoch 選擇利用國際衝突來賺取廉價政治分數。

She cozied up to Trump, realized it was unpopular and then she pulled back.

她巴結川普，發現不受歡迎，然後就退縮了。

That's not leadership, that's game playing in the middle of an international crisis.

這不是領導力，這是在國際危機中玩弄權術。

準備好的說詞，你現在拿出來講。

But the fact is, how we got a battleship, a navy ship, a destroyer in the Middle east, yet they're defending our bases, defending our people out there?

但事實是，我們在美國擁有一艘戰艦、一艘海軍艦艇、一艘驅逐艦，但他們卻在保護我們的基地，保護我們在那裡的人民？

Let me bring other people on the panel, James.

I'm amazed that Keir Starmer is being portrayed as some strong, decisive leader.

我對 Keir Starmer 被描繪成一個強大、果斷的領導者感到驚訝。

He knew that this war was going to happen several days at the very least before it did.

他知道這場戰爭至少會在幾天前發生。

On day one, Nigel Farage said, of course, if called upon, we would allow British bases to be used by American aircraft for refueling.

第一天，Nigel Farage 表示，當然，如果被要求，我們會允許美國飛機使用英國空軍基地進行加油。

In fairness, he said a little bit more than that.

公平地說，他說的比這多一點。