Name: 土耳其能成為歐洲安全可靠的夥伴嗎？ | DW News (Can Turkey be a reliable partner for European Security? | DW News)
Uploaded: 2025-11-20T16:54:37.000Z
Duration: 17 min 7 s

Many see NATO member Turkey as well placed to help the EU protect against threats from Russia.

許多人認為北約成員國土耳其很有潛力協助歐盟抵禦來自俄羅斯的威脅。

Mysterious drone flights have paralyzed European airports in recent weeks and lend urgency to plans to beef up the continent's defenses against Russia.

近幾週神祕的無人機飛行癱瘓了歐洲機場，這也讓加強大陸防禦俄羅斯的計畫更加迫切。

Russia will not stop until they are forced to.

俄羅斯不會停止，除非他們被迫停止。

This may require even closer cooperation with a difficult partner.

這可能需要與一個難纏的夥伴進行更緊密的合作。

Our defense industry, which is a source of pride for our country, is literally making history in every area.

我們的國防工業是國家的驕傲，在各個領域都寫下了歷史。

That's not just bluster from the Turkish president.

這不只是土耳其總統的虛張聲勢。

He has a lot to offer for the protection of Europe.

Turkey is southeast of the eu, located on the strategically important Black Sea, which borders both Russia and Ukraine.

土耳其位於歐盟東南方，坐落在戰略要地的黑海沿岸，與俄羅斯和烏克蘭接壤。

It's a member of NATO with the alliance's second largest army to the US and a rapidly growing defence industry.

它是北約成員國，擁有聯盟中僅次於美國的第二大軍隊，以及快速發展的國防工業。

In many ways, it's ideal for European customers.

在很多方面，這對歐洲客戶來說是理想的。

Experts say the EU and its member countries and its companies need close proximity, high technology, cost effective supply chains for ammunition for for technology that's linked to defense.

專家表示，歐盟及其成員國和公司需要緊密的聯繫、高科技、以及與國防相關技術的成本效益高的供應鏈來生產彈藥。

Essentially, Turkey fulfills a lot of those criteria and as a result is an obvious candidate for defense and security cooperation.

基本上，土耳其符合了許多這些條件，是以成為國防與安全合作的當然人選。

The country's defence industry knows this and is flexing its muscles, like here at this recent aerospace and Technology festival in Istanbul.

該國的國防工業瞭解這一點，並正在展現其實力，就像在最近伊斯坦堡的航太科技節一樣。

Turkey is currently developing its own highly advanced fighter jets and has become one of the world's biggest producers of military drones.

土耳其目前正在開發自己的高階戰鬥機，並已成為全球最大的軍用無人機生產國之一。

Bayraktar TB2 drones have helped Ukraine's war effort and have also been bought by EU countries like Poland and Romania.

Bayraktar TB2 無人機為烏克蘭的戰爭努力提供了幫助，也被波蘭和羅馬尼亞等歐盟國家購買。

Defense industry representatives tell us they stand ready to meet European needs.

國防工業的代表告訴我們，他們已準備好滿足歐洲的需求。

All the delegations that we receive from European countries asked same question.

我們接待的歐洲國家代表團都問了同樣的問題。

Including military, including non military, commercial side.

包括軍事、非軍事、商業方面。

And there are signs Turkey is becoming more important for European security.

而且有跡象顯示，土耳其對歐洲安全變得越來越重要。

In September, Turkey sent a warning and control aircraft to Lithuania as part of NATO security measures following airspace violations by Russia.

九月，在俄羅斯侵犯領空後，土耳其作為北約安全措施的一部分，向立陶宛派遣了一架預警及管制機。

Ankara has also signaled readiness to deploy forces to Ukraine in a potential European led peacekeeping mission, despite Turkey's close ties with Moscow.

儘管土耳其與莫斯科關係密切，但安卡拉也已表明準備好在歐洲主導的潛在維和任務中部署部隊至烏克蘭。

And Turkey has shown interest in joining the EU Safe Programme, a 150 billion euro loan scheme aimed at boosting defence spending across member states.

而且土耳其已表達出加入歐盟安全計劃的興趣，這是一項旨在提高成員國國防開支的 1500 億歐元貸款計劃。

It's important to mention that Turkey is welcome.

值得一提的是，土耳其受到歡迎。

It is regarded as a country that can partake in the SAFE program and that's a big improvement because that was not a certainty a few years back.

它被視為一個可以參與安全計劃的國家，這是一個很大的進步，因為幾年前這還不是確定的。

But President Erdogan is not an easy partner for Europe.

不過，艾爾段總統對歐洲來說並不是個好應付的夥伴。

Ankara's long standing disputes with Greece and Cyprus still fester and Erdogan maintains Strong ties with Russian President Vladimir Putin.

安卡拉與希臘和賽普勒斯之間長期的爭端依然存在，而且艾爾段與俄羅斯總統普丁維持著緊密的關係。

Domestic democratic backsliding has meant Turkey's membership talks with the EU have been on hold for years now.

國內民主的倒退意味著土耳其與歐盟的入盟談判已經停滯了好幾年。

And yet an unprecedented legal crackdown over the last year against Turkey's main opposition has not prompted significant European criticism.

然而，過去一年針對土耳其主要反對派前所未有的法律打壓，並未引發歐洲的強烈批評。

I don't think that the question of democracy is very much what shifted.

我認為民主問題並沒有改變太多。

I think the question of security is what shifted because there is this over overarching threat from Russia.

我認為是安全問題改變了，因為俄羅斯帶來了這個籠罩一切的威脅。

One major concern is, of course, judicial independence, democracy and the protection of investments.

當然，一個主要的擔憂是司法獨立、民主和投資保障。

When political opposition disappears, there is a risk for your euro that's invested, a partnership that comes with risks.

當政治反對派消失時，你投入的歐元就會有風險，夥伴關係也會伴隨風險。

But with security fears and Europe pressing in, closer defence cooperation with Turkey is likely to move ahead.

但隨著安全擔憂和歐洲的壓力，與土耳其更緊密的國防合作很可能會繼續推進。

Let's bring in Sinan JD he leads the Turkey program at the foundation for Defense of Democracies in Washington.

讓我們請到 Sinan JD，他是華盛頓國防民主基金會土耳其計畫的負責人。

Welcome back, Mr. G.D. now help us understand just how important Turkey's defense industry is right now.

歡迎回來，G.D. 先生，現在請您告訴我們，土耳其的國防工業現在有多重要。

Well, it's significant because just 30 or 40 years ago, Turkey had a very infantile, very small defense arms industry, basically designed to cater for a very limited amount of domestic needs following a number of arms embargoes that was initiated against Turkey following its invasion of Cyprus in 1974.

嗯，這很重要，因為就在 30 或 40 年前，土耳其的國防軍火工業非常初級、非常小，基本上是為了滿足 1974 年入侵賽普勒斯後對土耳其實施的一系列武器禁運所產生的有限國內需求。

So didn't need to be dependent on US arms imports.

所以不需要依賴美國的武器進口。

But now what you're looking at is in 2024, Turkey exported over $7 billion worth of arms exports to over 180 countries in the world.

但現在，在 2024 年，土耳其向全球超過 180 個國家出口了價值超過 70 億美元的軍火。

And as you report it, as the reports pointed out very well, you've got a tremendous number of countries interested in, basically from a price point of view, but

正如您報導的，正如報導所指出的，有大量的國家對此感興趣，主要是從價格角度來看，

also in terms of the speed that Turkey is able to deliver, numbers of drones, armored vehicles, somewhat on the lower to medium scale, sort of taking weapons technology that many countries are interested in adding to their sort of defense equipment arsenal, namely, the EU is rushing to build what they're calling a drone wall.

而且也看重土耳其能夠快速交付無人機、裝甲車等中低階武器的能力，許多國家都想將這類武器技術納入他們的國防裝備庫，也就是說，歐盟正急於建立他們所謂的「無人機長城」。

Of course, how well placed is Turkey to pigeon here?

當然，土耳其在這裡的戰略位置如何？

So on the surface level, Turkey builds numerous types of drones, which is of considerable interest to Europe, but

所以表面上來看，土耳其製造了許多類型的無人機，這引起了歐洲極大的興趣，

also just numerous countries around the world.

而且也引起了世界各地許多國家的興趣。

One of the things that we've been looking at is obviously, you know, African countries that have also purchased significant numbers of Turkish drones over the past few years.

我們一直在關注的一件事是，顯然，你知道，非洲國家在過去幾年也購買了大量的土耳其無人機。

And Europe's obviously interested in these from a perspective of intelligence surveillance, but

歐洲顯然對這些無人機感興趣，是從情報監控的角度來看，

also armed drones that it can use in combat situations to thwart these sort of swarms of Russian drones that are coming in.

但也包括可以投入戰鬥的武裝無人機，用來阻止那些俄羅斯無人機的蜂擁入侵。

The jury is still out in terms of how effective these will be against Russian incursions into European airspace simply because one of the things that the Russians have been quite capable of adapting to is the type of technology that Turkish drones have been able to deploy in the past few years.

這些無人機對抗俄羅斯入侵歐洲空域的有效性還有待觀察，原因之一是俄羅斯一直很擅長適應土耳其無人機近年來部署的技術。

We do know that Turkish Russians were very effective, for example, in the Nagorno Karabakh war against Russian defensive equipment and defensive and Russian missile technology and Russian tanks on the ground.

我們確實知道，例如在納戈爾諾-卡拉巴赫戰爭中，土耳其的無人機對俄羅斯的防禦裝備、飛彈技術以及地面的俄羅斯坦克非常有效。

But since then, as the Ukraine Russia war has continued, we have seen that those Turkish drones have been very capably shot down by the Russians.

但自那以後，隨著烏克蘭與俄羅斯的戰爭持續，我們看到那些土耳其無人機被俄羅斯非常有效地擊落。

So we know Turkey could produce cheap, voluminous number of drones.

所以我們知道土耳其可以生產便宜、大量的無人機。

But we've also seen Russian drone, Russian military capabilities adapt to them.

但我們也看到俄羅斯的無人機和軍事能力已經適應了它們。

Yeah, Turkey has, of course, we saw it in the report there, strong ties to Russian President Vladimir Putin.

沒錯，土耳其當然，我們在報告中也看到了，和俄羅斯總統普丁有著密切的聯繫。

How does that relationship affect Ankara security cooperation with Europe?

這段關係會如何影響安卡拉與歐洲的安全合作呢？

It's very complicated and it's very strainful.

Look, Turkey has very strained relationships with not just Europe, but

看看，土耳其與歐洲的關係非常緊張，不只是歐洲，

also the United States because Turkey is also a recipient country of Russian military aid, basically dating back since the late 2000 and tens when Turkey specifically acquired Russian military technology, specifically S400 Russian missile defense technology.

也包括美國，因為土耳其也是俄羅斯軍事援助的接受國，這可以追溯到 2000 年代末期，當時土耳其特別採購了俄羅斯的軍事技術，特別是 S400 俄羅斯飛彈防禦技術。

And it has continued to build on that by acquiring Russian nuclear energy technology for energy generation purposes.

而且他們還透過採購俄羅斯的核能技術來發展能源發電，持續在這方面發展。

Many European countries, as well as the European Union in general, is wondering, is Turkey continuing down the path of developing a much more strategic and military relationship with Turkey with Russia simply because it is requested membership status with anti Western coalitions such as the Shanghai Cooperation Organization as well as brics, which are the essential sort of antithesis of what the European Union, NATO and the United States stand for, which Turkey is also members of.

許多歐洲國家，以及整個歐盟，都在想，土耳其是否會繼續走上與俄羅斯發展更具戰略性和軍事關係的道路，僅僅因為他們尋求加入像上海合作組織和金磚國家這樣的反西方聯盟的成員國身份，而這些聯盟基本上與歐盟、北約和美國的立場截然相反，儘管土耳其也是這些組織的成員國。

And we should also not forget that because Turkey's imported military technology from the Russian Federation in the past few years, it has resulted in being sanctioned by the United States and kicked out of the the F45, F35 military program which Turkey was supposed to receive back in 2019?

而且我們也不應忘記，由於土耳其過去幾年從俄羅斯聯邦進口軍事技術，導致他們受到美國的制裁，並被踢出了 F35 軍事計畫，而土耳其本應在 2019 年收到這些飛機？

And so Turkey is not exactly in a rosy spot in terms of its relationship with the Western Hemisphere and its treaty allies.

所以，就土耳其與西方世界及其盟友的關係而言，他們並不是處於一個非常有利的地位。

Then domestically there is Turkey's democratic backsliding.

然後在國內，還有土耳其的民主倒退問題。

Is that getting in the way at all of closer security ties with the eu?

這會阻礙與歐盟建立更緊密的國防合作嗎？

你可能會這麼想，而且確實應該如此。

But unfortunately it's not because this is something that the European Union is choosing, I would say unfortunately, to ignore, because Turkey is making it abundantly clear that it can benefit the European Union in certain ways that European politicians care about, which is nominally.

但不幸的是，情況並非如此，因為我認為歐盟選擇了，不幸的是，忽略這一點，因為土耳其非常清楚地表明，它能在某些歐洲政客關心的方面讓歐盟受益，而這只是名義上的。

For example, Turkey's been very sort of crafty under Erdogan's leadership for saying, well, I can help you stem the tide of refugee flows, whether it's Syrians, whether it's Afghans or anyone else for that matter, matter, breaching the walls of the European borders.

例如，在 Erdoan 的領導下，土耳其一直很狡猾，他們說，好吧，我可以幫助你們阻止難民潮，無論是敘利亞人、阿富汗人還是其他任何人，他們正在衝破歐洲邊境。

But in return for that, I need you to essentially remain quiet on notions of Turkey's lack of democratic governance.

但作為交換，我需要你們對土耳其缺乏民主治理的說法保持沉默。

When we say sort of, you know, lack of democrat, when we talk about democratic backsliding in Turkey, we shouldn't just be sort of concerned about, you know, minor infractions here and there.

當我們說，你知道，缺乏民主，當我們談論土耳其的民主倒退時，我們不應該只關心，你知道，這裡那裡的一些小小的違規行為。

We've now come to the stage in Turkey whereby the main opposition party that seeks to challenge Erdogan is in the throes of essentially having its leadership replaced by the Turkish judicial system, whereby voters don't even get a choice anymore.

我們現在已經到了土耳其的階段，主要的反對黨，也就是挑戰 Erdoan 的黨，正處於土耳其司法系統更換其領導層的陣痛之中，選民甚至沒有選擇的機會了。

So we're getting to the end of basic rule of law in Turkey, and

所以，土耳其的基本法治即將走到盡頭，

I think Europe could play a significant part in holding Turkey and Erdoan accountable, but

我認為歐洲可以在讓土耳其和 Erdoan 承擔責任方面發揮重要作用，但

JD, thank you so much for your time tonight.

Germany's foreign Minister, Johann Vodafo is in Turkey for bilateral talks with his counterpart, Hakan Fidan.

德國外交部長 Johann Vodafo 正在土耳其與他的對口官員 Hakan Fidan 進行雙邊會談。

Regional security is very much on the agenda of that meeting.

區域安全是這次會議非常重要的議題。

And I have my DW colleagues joining me now.

Julia Hahn, who is our correspondent based in Istanbul, and

Julia Hahn，她是我們駐伊斯坦堡的特派記者，還有

Matthew Moore, who is traveling with the German foreign Minister.

Matthew Moore，他正隨同德國外交部長出訪。

Matthew, to you first, what is the German foreign minister trying to achieve with this visit to Turkey at this time?

Matthew，我先問你，德國外長這次訪問土耳其，在這個時間點，他想達成什麼目標？

Well, this is your hand, Vadafill's first visit to Turkey in his role as Germany's top diplomat.

嗯，這是您手，Vadafill 首次以德國最高外交官的身份訪問土耳其。

The first is with the director of the National Intelligence Service.

第一場是跟國家情報總監見面。

And later in the afternoon he will meet, as you mentioned, the foreign Minister, Hakan Fidan.

下午晚些時候，他會見您提到的外交部長 Hakan Fidan。

And there the aim really is just to lay out Germany's position is to try and find out what could be the next steps in Gaza peace plan.

在那裡，目標是闡述德國的立場，並試著找出加薩和平計畫下一步可能怎麼走。

And also one of the things that Yuan Vadifa wants to do is to pressure Turkey to use its leverage over Hamas to disarm as part of that peace plan.

另外，Yuan Vadifa 也想藉此機會施壓土耳其，讓他們利用對哈瑪斯的影響力，在和平計畫中要求解除武裝。

Naturally, there will also be talk about what the relationship is between Turkey and Israel going forward.

當然，也會談到土耳其和以色列未來關係的走向。

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土耳其能成為歐洲安全可靠的夥伴嗎？ | DW News (Can Turkey be a reliable partner for European Security? | DW News)

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