Name: 【BBC】川普要求烏克蘭與俄羅斯舉行直接會談後，澤倫斯基提出與普丁會晤 (Zelensky offers to meet Putin after Trump demands Ukraine hold direct talks with Russia | BBC News)
Uploaded: 2025-05-12T03:13:15.000Z
Duration: 9 min 5 s

情態副詞

In the last hour, Ukrainian President Volodymyr Zelensky has said he's prepared to meet Russia's Vladimir Putin for talks in Istanbul on Thursday, after President Trump appeared to hit out at Ukraine and urged Mr Zelensky to agree to talk with Russia immediately.

在過去的一小時裡，烏克蘭總統沃洛德梅爾-澤連斯基（Volodymyr Zelensky）表示，他準備於週四在伊斯坦布爾與俄羅斯總統弗拉基米爾-普京舉行會談，此前美國總統特朗普似乎對烏克蘭進行了抨擊，並敦促澤連斯基先生同意立即與俄羅斯進行會談。

In a post on X, the Ukrainian president also said that he expected a full ceasefire to start on Monday, in order to provide the necessary basis for diplomacy to end the war.

烏克蘭總統還在 X 上發表文章說，他期待週一開始全面停火，以便為結束戰爭的外交努力提供必要的基礎。

未來進行式

And I will be waiting for Putin in Turkey on Thursday, personally, he added.

他補充說，我本人將於週四在土耳其等待普京。

Earlier in a post on his Truth Social platform, President Trump said President Putin of Russia doesn't want to have a ceasefire agreement with Ukraine, but rather wants to meet on Thursday in Turkey to negotiate a possible end to the bloodbath.

早些時候，特朗普總統在他的 "真相 "社交平臺上發表文章稱，俄羅斯總統普京並不想與烏克蘭達成停火協議，而是希望週四在土耳其舉行會議，談判結束流血衝突的可能性。

Ukraine should agree to this immediately.

He went on to say at least they will be able to determine whether or not a deal is possible.

他接著說，至少他們能夠確定是否有可能達成協議。

Vladimir Putin offered direct talks in Istanbul in a TV address in the early hours of Saturday morning.

弗拉基米爾-普京在週六凌晨的電視講話中提出在伊斯坦布爾舉行直接會談。

We'll be live in Washington shortly, but first with me is our World Affairs correspondent, Joe Inwood.

稍後我們將在華盛頓進行現場直播，首先和我在一起的是世界事務記者喬-因伍德。

Do we think Thursday will actually happen in some form?

我們認為週四會以某種形式發生嗎？

哦，這是一個非常非常好的問題。

We know from the Russians that they've offered these talks.

我們從俄羅斯人那裡得知，他們提出了這些會談。

President Trump then says, as you were just mentioning, the talk should happen.

特朗普總統接著說，正如你剛才提到的，會談應該進行。

And within, really within minutes, we were speaking an hour ago, and between now and then, President Zelensky has come out on social media and said, I'll be there personally.

就在幾分鐘之內，我們一小時前還在通話，從現在到那時，澤倫斯基總統在社交媒體上說，我會親自到場。

And this is the really interesting thing here.

President Putin never said he was going to be taking part in these talks.

普京總統從未說過他將參加這些會談。

And previously, talks have happened at a lower level.

而此前的會談都是在較低級別進行的。

I think it was Sergey Lavrov that took part in the last ones, which were in Istanbul in 2022, so more than three years ago.

我想是謝爾蓋-拉夫羅夫參加了上一次會議，那是 2022 年在伊斯坦布爾舉行的，距今已有三年多。

President Zelensky said, I'll be there personally.

澤倫斯基總統說，我會親自去的。

I'll see you there, Putin, which obviously that wasn't part of the agreement.

到時候見，普京，這顯然不是協議的一部分。

He then says, I hope the Russians don't look for excuses.

然後他說，我希望俄羅斯人不要找藉口。

So we've got this kind of game, but this kind of battle between the two men of what they're offering to do to try and paint themselves, it seems, in the eyes of Donald Trump, because that really is one of the key things in this, as the person who is happy to look for peace.

是以，我們有了這樣一場博弈，但在唐納德-特朗普眼中，這兩個人之間的爭鬥似乎是他們要做什麼來粉飾自己，因為這確實是其中的關鍵因素之一，因為他們是樂於尋求和平的人。

If we saw Zelensky opposite Putin across the table, it would be a big moment, wouldn't it?

如果我們看到澤倫斯基與普京隔桌相對，那將是一個重要時刻，不是嗎？

Because, you know, all the indications are they're still so far apart.

因為，你知道，所有的跡象都表明，他們之間的差距還是那麼大。

Yeah, I mean, if that were to happen, and I really, I would not expect, I won't be waiting to see the two men across each other from a table on Thursday.

是的，我的意思是，如果真的發生這種情況，我真的不希望，我不會等著在週四的餐桌上看到這兩個人的對決。

If it does, fair enough, but I would be astonished if it does.

如果真的是這樣，倒也無可厚非，但如果真的是這樣，我會感到非常驚訝。

In terms of the talks, as you say, they've both got these red lines that seem absolutely miles apart.

就會談而言，正如你所說，雙方都有一些紅線，看起來相距甚遠。

President Putin has always talked about trying to end what he calls the root causes of this war.

普京總統一直在說要努力消除他所謂的戰爭根源。

Now, if you think about what he's talking about, really, it's political independence, the sovereignty of Ukraine.

現在，如果你想想他說的是什麼，其實就是政治獨立，烏克蘭的主權。

He wants to go back to a time when Ukraine was under the Russian umbrella, the USSR umbrella.

他想回到烏克蘭受俄羅斯（蘇聯）保護的時代。

He wants to have a compliant government in Kiev.

他想在基輔建立一個順從的政府。

He also, at the very least, wants to take over a large amount of Ukrainian territory, not just the bits they've already captured since 2014, since 22, but actually a bit more they've originally asked for.

至少，他還想佔領大量烏克蘭領土，不僅僅是他們自 2014 年、自 22 日以來已經佔領的部分領土，實際上他們最初要求的領土還要更多一些。

All of those are hugely unacceptable to Ukraine.

所有這些都是烏克蘭極難接受的。

From the Ukrainian perspective, they want their territory back.

從烏克蘭的角度來看，他們想要回自己的領土。

They want, I mean, they've talked before about war reparations.

他們希望，我是說，他們之前已經談到過戰爭賠償。

They've even talked about getting all of the Crimean peninsula back in the territory they lost in 2014.

他們甚至談到要把 2014 年失去的克里米亞半島全部收回來。

So, completely polar opposites in terms of what they want.

所以，在他們想要的東西方面，完全是兩極對立的。

And whether any negotiators can find a way to find middle ground, I mean, it will be the most difficult of international negotiations.

我的意思是，這將是最困難的國際談判。

我們將饒有興趣地等待週四的到來。

Well, we can cross live now to Washington to speak to our North America correspondent, Jake Kwan.

現在，我們可以連線華盛頓的北美記者傑克-關（Jake Kwan）。

Jake, you've been hearing the developments in the last hour with this and Zelensky's response.

傑克，你已經聽到了過去一小時的事態發展 以及澤倫斯基的迴應。

What do you think Donald Trump will make of this then?

您認為唐納德-特朗普會如何看待此事？

Because he was urging them to get to the table, wasn't he?

因為他在敦促他們坐到談判桌前，不是嗎？

He's prepared to call out both sides at different times.

他準備在不同的時候向雙方叫板。

You know, if you look at his post that you were just showing earlier, he is, you know, it's usually riddled with the all caps.

你知道，如果你看一下你剛才展示的他的帖子，你知道，他的帖子通常都是全大寫的。

And he wasn't only pressuring Zelensky to have the meeting.

他不只是向澤倫斯基施壓，讓他召開會議。

He was going after both Zelensky and Putin, saying that, you know, it seems that maybe Zelensky is not willing to do it.

他在追問澤連斯基和普京，說，你知道，澤連斯基似乎並不願意這麼做。

Putin also seems distracted by his V.E. parade, but that they must meet.

普京似乎也在為他的副總統閱兵而分心，但他們必須見面。

And both leaders, it really benefits them to look like they're not standing in the way of the peace deal that Mr. Trump desperately wants.

這兩位領導人都希望自己看起來沒有阻礙特朗普先生迫切希望達成的和平協議。

And, Mr. Trump, you can read from that that his patience seems to be running thin.

特朗普先生，你可以從中看出，他的耐心似乎已經耗盡。

And there's this one part in the post saying that if not, Europeans and U.S. will know where everything stands and can proceed accordingly.

帖子中有這樣一段話：如果不這樣做，歐洲人和美國人就會知道一切的進展情況，並可以據此行事。

He is bringing a little bit of that Godfather like energy, kind of a thinly veiled threat that he could turn the screws on.

他帶來了一點 "教父 "式的能量，一種隱隱約約的威脅，讓人覺得他可能會反咬一口。

He could bring extra pain if these people do not play the way he likes.

如果這些人不按他喜歡的方式演奏，他可能會帶來額外的痛苦。

You know, I think one theory from analysts is that Putin has thrown out the possibility of these peace talks on Thursday because he's playing for time, but actually intends to continue the war, to continue his military actions.

你知道，我認為分析人士的一種推測是，普京拋出了週四舉行和談的可能性，因為他在拖延時間，但實際上他打算繼續戰爭，繼續他的軍事行動。

And the suggestions are that Donald Trump gets played by Putin.

有人認為，唐納德-特朗普被普京耍了。

What do you think the White House will make of that?

Certainly, that is a fear that White House has and the doubt that White House does share with Kiev somewhat.

當然，這是白宮的擔憂，也是白宮對基輔的某種懷疑。

And he was saying earlier that perhaps Putin is simply tapping him along, playing him for a fool.

他早些時候還說，也許普京只是在敷衍他，把他當傻子耍。

But Mr. Putin, Mr. Trump is really going for the prize here.

但普京先生，特朗普先生在這裡真的是為了獎品。

He just won this great prize of victory in India and Pakistan issue.

他剛剛贏得了印巴問題的勝利。

He could point that as his first kind of win.

他可以把這作為他的第一場勝利。

And if Mr. Putin does not play by Mr. Trump's rules, he could really bring in these other threats that he has mentioned earlier, like more sanction on the banking system and the really painful secondary sanctions that he mentioned earlier, where the U.S. could put sanctions on any countries, any companies that does deal with Putin, which Moscow surely would love to avoid.

如果普京先生不按特朗普先生的規則行事，他就會真正帶來他之前提到的其他威脅，比如對銀行系統的更多制裁，以及他之前提到的非常痛苦的二級制裁，美國可能會對任何與普京有交易的國家和公司實施制裁，莫斯科肯定希望避免這些制裁。

Let's speak now to Sergei Goryachko from the BBC's Russian service, who is in Riga.

現在讓我們連線正在里加的英國廣播公司俄羅斯分部的謝爾蓋-戈里亞奇科（Sergei Goryachko）。

謝爾蓋，感謝你參加我們的節目。

We heard President Putin's announcement made in a 2 a.m. press conference in Russia, didn't we, in the early hours of this morning.

今天凌晨，普京總統在俄羅斯凌晨兩點的新聞發佈會上宣佈了這一消息。

What do you think we can understand about his intentions?

你認為我們能理解他的意圖嗎？

Well, he had to respond somehow to the proposition of a 30-day ceasefire.

他必須對 30 天停火的提議做出某種迴應。

而他最終確實拒絕了這一想法。

And he had to come up with some sort of a counter proposition, some sort of another measure, which is why he asked about those negotiations in Istanbul and said that Russia is ready to negotiate with Ukraine without any conditions, and just to take it from there.

他必須提出某種反建議，某種新措施，這就是為什麼他詢問伊斯坦布爾談判的情況，並表示俄羅斯願意無條件地與烏克蘭談判，並從那裡開始。

It was not the first time when Vladimir Putin has told that he is ready to direct negotiation with Kyiv.

這已經不是弗拉基米爾-普京第一次表示願意與基輔直接談判了。

But actually, before, he always added something like Vladimir Zelensky has already banned himself from the negotiations, which is why these negotiations are not possible.

但實際上，在此之前，他總是補充說弗拉基米爾-澤連斯基已經禁止自己參加談判，所以這些談判是不可能的。

This time, he didn't mention these facts.

這一次，他沒有提及這些事實。

And this time, he said that Russia is ready to negotiate in good faith.

這一次，他說俄羅斯願意真誠地進行談判。

But, of course, ultimately, the positions of Moscow and Kyiv are somehow very different now.

當然，歸根結底，莫斯科和基輔的立場現在已大相徑庭。

And another interesting fact, that just minutes after Putin has concluded his speech, the first drones since that ceasefire announced by Russia during the Victory Day, the first drones hit Ukrainian soil.

另一個有趣的事實是，就在普京結束演講幾分鐘後，自俄羅斯在勝利日宣佈停火以來，第一架無人機襲擊了烏克蘭領土。

There were swarms of hundreds of them sent from Russia to Ukraine.

成群結隊的幾百只從俄羅斯運往烏克蘭。

Do you get any sense of people's reactions within Russia to Putin's latest offer of peace talks?

您是否瞭解俄羅斯國內民眾對普京最新和談提議的反應？

What kind of response does it get from the public there?

But, of course, everyone is nail-biting weak.

Well, everyone will be watching who will go to Istanbul, who will represent Russia at the time, and which conditions Russia would have at those negotiations.

大家都在關注誰將前往伊斯坦布爾，誰將代表俄羅斯，以及俄羅斯在談判中會提出哪些條件。

Vladimir Putin mentioned the earlier Istanbul talks back in 2022.

弗拉基米爾-普京提到了早在 2022 年的伊斯坦布爾會談。

But since then, the situation has changed dramatically.

但自那以後，情況發生了巨大變化。

For once, Russia has annexed the parts of four Ukrainian regions.

這一次，俄羅斯吞併了烏克蘭四個州的部分地區。

And during Istanbul talks in 2022, that was not the case at the time.

而在 2022 年伊斯坦布爾會談期間，當時的情況並非如此。

And there was the idea that the fate of Donbass and Crimea would be discussed by presidents directly, and the status of the Crimea peninsula would be somehow not discussed during the next two decades.

還有一種觀點認為，頓巴斯和克里米亞的命運將由各國總統直接討論，而克里米亞半島的地位將在未來二十年內以某種方式不予討論。

Now, the situation and Russian position has changed.

現在，局勢和俄羅斯的立場都發生了變化。

And, well, they will definitely add something up about that in their starting positions.

而且，他們肯定會在自己的起始位置上加上一些有關的內容。

Okay, Sergey, thank you for your thoughts on that.

好的，謝爾蓋，謝謝你的看法。

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【BBC】川普要求烏克蘭與俄羅斯舉行直接會談後，澤倫斯基提出與普丁會晤 (Zelensky offers to meet Putin after Trump demands Ukraine hold direct talks with Russia | BBC News)

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