Name: 戴森創始人談何時放棄以及後悔放棄的產品 | 華爾街日報 (Dyson Founder on When to Give Up and Products He Regrets Scrapping | WSJ)
Uploaded: 2025-05-06T21:47:50.000Z
Duration: 9 min 16 s

If a product costs too much to make, it's not a...

如果一個產品的生產成本過高，那麼它就不是一個...

轉承詞

Well, it is an invention, but it's not a brilliant invention because it isn't going to make money.

嗯，這是一項發明，但它不是一項傑出的發明，因為它不會賺錢。

This is the mine that started Dyson, an international appliance powerhouse.

就是這座礦山造就了國際家電巨頭戴森公司。

But before the company's rise, James Dyson faced a lot of rejection.

但在公司崛起之前，詹姆斯-戴森曾面臨過很多拒絕。

You famously had 5,127 iterations on your vacuum cleaner before the final product.

在最終產品問世之前，你的吸塵器經歷了 5127 次迭代。

Is that still your approach, as many as it takes?

Yes, I mean, that's what you have to do, is try on an error.

是的，我的意思是，這就是你必須做的，在錯誤中嘗試。

When something works, it's less challenging, it's less interesting.

當一件事情成功了，它的挑戰性就降低了，它的趣味性也降低了。

If something's gone wrong, you want to know why it's gone wrong.

如果出了問題，你想知道為什麼會出問題。

The Wall Street Journal sat down with Dyson at the company's new headquarters in Singapore to discuss how James Dyson picks what to invent, when to give up, and what's in store for the company after 34 years.

華爾街日報》在戴森位於新加坡的新總部採訪了戴森，討論了詹姆斯-戴森如何選擇發明、何時放棄，以及公司 34 年後的發展前景。

Going all the way back to your childhood, do you remember the first thing you ever created or invented?

追溯到童年時代，你還記得自己創造或發明的第一件東西嗎？

Oh, I made model aeroplanes that I'd fly off the roof of the house.

哦，我還做過飛機模型，可以從房頂上飛起來。

We lived in quite a large Victorian house.

我們住在一座維多利亞式的大房子裡。

I can't say I invented them, but I think I started to add things to them and tried to make parachutes for them and things like that.

我不能說是我發明了它們，但我想我開始給它們添加東西，並嘗試為它們製作降落傘之類的東西。

But nothing particularly serious at that stage.

但在那個階段，並沒有什麼特別嚴重的問題。

And so now you have vacuum cleaners, you have hair dryers, you have hand dryers, you have air purifiers.

是以，現在有了吸塵器、吹風機、幹手機、空氣淨化器。

But one of the first things you created was an improved wheelbarrow.

但你最先創造的東西之一是改進型手推車。

I was using a wheelbarrow at home like everybody does.

我和其他人一樣，在家裡用手推車。

And the wheel was always sinking into soft ground.

So therefore I wanted to do a ball, fat, very fat wheel, if you like, rather than a narrow wheel.

是以，我想做一個球形的、胖胖的、非常胖的輪子，如果你喜歡的話，而不是窄窄的輪子。

And the advantage of a wheel is that, a spherical wheel, is that it doesn't sink into soft ground.

車輪的優勢在於，球形車輪不會陷入鬆軟的地面。

And so how do you go from making improvements to a wheelbarrow to airflow technology?

那麼，如何從改進手推車到氣流技術呢？

When I was making the wheelbarrow, we were spraying epoxy powder on some steel frames.

在製作手推車時，我們在一些鋼架上噴塗環氧粉末。

And the idea was that the powder stuck there by static to the frame.

這樣做的目的是讓粉末靜止地粘在框架上。

But of course, a lot of it missed the frame and had to be sucked away.

但當然，有很多都沒入了框架，不得不被吸走。

And we were using what was essentially a giant vacuum cleaner with a giant bag, as it were.

我們使用的基本上是一個巨大的真空吸塵器，裡面有一個巨大的袋子。

So I looked around at what sophisticated people did to collect dust.

於是，我環顧四周，看看那些老練的人是如何收集灰塵的。

And they use things called cyclones, which of course I'd seen on the outside of factories.

他們使用一種叫旋風的東西，我當然在工廠外面見過。

So I suddenly realized here was a technology which would be wonderful for vacuum cleaners because it can't clog.

於是，我突然意識到，有一種技術對吸塵器來說非常好，因為它不會堵塞。

Is there a way to estimate, you think, how many prototypes or iterations across products has Dyson has had over the years?

你認為是否有辦法估算出戴森多年來的產品原型或迭代次數？

Oh, you mean if I added up all the failed prototypes?

哦，你是說如果我把所有失敗的原型機加起來？

Yeah, I always say mine is a life of failure.

是啊，我總說我的人生是失敗的人生。

And it's true for writers and filmmakers and all sorts of people.

對於作家、電影製作人以及各種各樣的人來說都是如此。

It's a life of failure, because it takes a long time before you find the one that works, the one that hits the button on the head.

這是一種充滿失敗的生活，因為你要花很長時間才能找到一個有效的方法，一個一針見血的方法。

You know, at school, you're taught to get the answer right first time.

你知道，在學校裡，老師教你第一次就要答對。

The clever person gets it right first time.

But the clever person hasn't viscerally experienced failure and overcoming failure.

但是，聰明人並沒有直觀地經歷過失敗和戰勝失敗。

And when you leave school or just leave university, life is about making things work.

而當你離開學校或剛剛離開大學時，生活就是要讓一切運轉起來。

Since its founding in 1991, Dyson has created more than 70 vacuum cleaner models and expanded into new product categories.

自 1991 年成立以來，戴森已生產出 70 多種型號的真空吸塵器，並不斷拓展新的產品類別。

Today, Dyson holds nearly 9,000 granted or pending patents.

如今，戴森擁有近 9000 項已獲授權或正在申請中的專利。

How would you decide what product categories you want to enter?

您如何決定要進入哪些產品類別？

Always the impetus is, have I got an idea that people are gonna want and that will be useful and be better performing than what's on the market at the moment, by a margin, not sort of minute amount.

我的動力始終是，我是否有一個人們想要的想法，這個想法是否有用，是否比目前市場上的產品性能更好？

Oh, this would be a good category to go into.

And there's lots of money in this category.

Perhaps we should, but we should think we've got a good idea, let's make a product with it.

也許我們應該這樣做，但我們應該想，我們已經有了一個好主意，讓我們用它來製作一個產品吧。

With a product, when you're going through that process, how do you decide we need to keep pushing through or we need to scrap this?

對於一個產品，當你經歷這個過程時，你如何決定我們需要繼續推進，還是需要放棄？

So if it's not technically working, you just go on and on and on, often for many years, until you decide it's not working.

是以，如果在技術上行不通，你就會不斷地繼續下去，往往會持續很多年，直到你認為行不通為止。

And that's easy because it's not working.

So you don't even have to make a decision.

You just have to say enough is enough, let's try something else.

你必須說夠了，讓我們試試別的。

With a commercial product, we happened to be sitting next to something where we had to make a decision not to do it.

對於商業產品，我們碰巧坐在旁邊，不得不做出不做的決定。

And that was entirely for commercial reasons.

The commercial product in question, Dyson's electric car, which went into development in 2014.

戴森的電動汽車是一款商業產品，於 2014 年投入研發。

But as more big name automakers entered the category, Dyson was faced with increased competition.

但隨著越來越多的大牌汽車製造商進入這一領域，戴森面臨的競爭也越來越激烈。

Suddenly everybody was going to make electric cars and nobody was making any money out of them.

突然間，所有人都開始生產電動汽車，但卻沒有人從中賺到錢。

They're making huge losses out of them because it's an expensive thing to develop.

由於開發成本高昂，他們損失慘重。

And I could see that it was just too risky.

我看得出來，這樣做太冒險了。

And we're a private company, a relatively small private company, and I haven't got 30 billion to keep pumping into that until it makes a profit, which is a shame because I love doing it.

我們是一傢俬營公司，一家規模相對較小的私營公司，我沒有 300 億資金繼續投入，直到它盈利為止。

Is there a tension between innovation and profitability?

創新與盈利之間是否存在矛盾？

You've got to be able to make it economically, and sometimes it's quite hard to sell things for various reasons.

你必須有經濟實力，有時由於各種原因，東西很難賣出去。

The distribution system and the sheer resource you have to put behind getting it in front of people.

分銷系統，以及將產品送到人們面前所需的大量資源。

You've got to make it in large numbers and you've got to be able to sell it.

你必須大量生產，還必須能夠銷售。

Have you ever scrapped a product and regretted it?

您是否曾經放棄過一個產品併為此後悔過？

We used to make a washing machine with two drums, counter-rotating washing machine, which had a very large capacity and washed well and quickly and gently, but we were losing money on it.

我們曾經制造過一種帶兩個滾筒的洗衣機，即反轉式洗衣機，它的容量非常大，洗得又快又好又輕柔，但我們卻在賠錢。

This was quite a long time ago and the board just didn't want to go on losing money on it.

這是很久以前的事了，董事會只是不想繼續賠錢。

You move on and you're doing other things.

It's sort of difficult to go backwards and revive something.

要逆流而上，重振旗鼓，有點困難。

How do you think of making changes to the business versus changes to a product?

您如何看待業務變革與產品變革？

Is it a similar type of iterative approach?

It's a very interesting question, which no one's ever answered me, but yes, I suppose I'm a bit like an engineer.

這是一個非常有趣的問題，從來沒有人回答過我，不過是的，我想我有點像工程師。

I see what's not working or wonder if we could do something better and then look at the opportunities, try to work out opportunities.

我看到哪些地方行不通，或者想知道我們是否可以做得更好，然後尋找機會，努力尋找機會。

I mean, I'm sure lots of other people do that, but my approach to it is as an engineer and then to try something out or try several things out to see what might work and then do it in a very organised manner.

我的意思是，我相信很多其他人也是這麼做的，但我的方法是作為一個工程師，然後去嘗試一些東西或嘗試幾種東西，看看哪些東西可能有用，然後以一種非常有組織的方式去做。

What's the one invention that you've looked at and said, I wish I had made that?

你看到過哪項發明，然後說 "真希望是我發明的"？