Oh, gosh, I never saw such a room

利亞蔡斯：喔，好漂亮。

and beauty and strength like I'm looking at.

喔，天，我從來沒有看過

That's gorgeous. It is.

像這樣的畫面，美麗又充滿能量。

It is a beautiful room.

非常動人，真的。

Pat Mitchell: I almost said your age, because you gave me permission,

這是個很漂亮的場地。

but I realized that I was about to make you a year older.

帕特米謝爾：我差點說出 你的年齡，因為你說可以，

You're only 94.

但我發現我會讓你老一歲。

(Laughter)

其實你只有 94 歲。

(Applause)

（笑聲）

LC: Yeah, I'm only 94.

（掌聲）

(Applause)

利亞：是啊，我只有 94 歲。

I mean, you get this old and parts start wearing out.

（掌聲）

Your legs start wearing out.

當你到這麼老的時候， 有些部份開始失靈。

The one thing that my children always say:

你的腳開始失靈。

"But nothing happened to your mouth."

但我的孩子們總會說：

(Laughter)

「但你的嘴巴都好好的。」

So you've got to have something going, so I've got my mouth going.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

總得讓什麼能繼續用下去， 所以我讓我的嘴巴繼續用下去。

PM: So Mrs. Chase, the first time we were there,

（笑聲）

I brought a group of young women, who work with us at TED,

帕特：蔡斯女士， 我們第一次去那裡時，

into the kitchen,

我帶了在 TED 工作的一群年輕女子

and we were all standing around and you had already cooked lunch

到廚房裡去，

for hundreds of people, as you do every day,

我們都站在周圍，你已經在做午餐，

and you looked up at them.

為數百人做，那是你的日常，

You have to share with this audience what you said to those young women.

而你看著她們。

LC: Well, you know, I talk to young women all the time,

你一定要告訴這裡的觀眾 你當時對那些年輕女子說了什麼。

and it's beginning to bother me,

利亞：你知道的， 我常和年輕女子說話，

because look how far I came.

那開始讓我不舒服，

I'd come with women that had to really hustle and work hard,

因為看看我走了多遠的路。

and they knew how to be women.

我曾經遇過真的需要 拼命努力工作的女人，

They didn't play that man down.

她們知道如何做女人。

And, well, we didn't have the education you have today,

她們不會貶低男人。

and God, I'm so proud

我們當時沒有像你們現在受的教育，

when I see those women with all that education under their belt.

天，我好驕傲，

That's why I worked hard,

我看到那些女人受到過那麼多教育。

tried to get everybody to use those resources.

那就是為什麼我很努力，

So they just don't know their power,

試著讓每個人都去用那些資源。

and I always tell them, just look at my mother,

她們只是不知道她們的力量，

had 12 girls before she had a boy.

我總是告訴她們，看看我母親，

(Laughter)

生了 12 個女生之後 才生出 1 個男生。

So you know how I came out.

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

所以你們知道我怎麼出來的。

Now, she had 14 children.

（笑聲）

She raised 11 of us out of that 14,

她有 14 個孩子。

and up until last year, we were all still living,

14 個當中她養育了 11 個，

a bunch of old biddies, but we're still here.

直到去年，我們都還活著，

(Laughter)

一群老婆娘，但我們都還在。

And sometimes we can be just cantankerous and blah blah blah blah blah,

（笑聲）

but we still go.

有時我們就愛唱反調，等等等等，

And I love to see women.

但我們仍然繼續。

You don't know what it does for me

我喜歡看女人。

to see women in the position that you're in today.

你們不知道看到女性

I never thought I'd see that.

有現在的地位對我有什麼影響。

I never thought I'd see women

我從來沒有想到我能看到這些。

be able to take places and positions that we have today.

我從來沒有想到我能看到女性

It is just a powerful thing.

能做到我們現今這樣的位置。

I had a young woman come to me.

那是非常強大的事。

She was an African-American woman.

曾有一位年輕女子來找我。

And I said, "Well, what do you do, honey?"

她是非裔美國女性。

She said, "I am a retired Navy pilot."

我說：「你做什麼工作，親愛的？」

Oh God, that just melted me,

她說：「我是退休的海軍飛行員。」

because I knew how hard it was to integrate that Navy.

喔，天啊，我都融化了，

You know, the Navy was the last thing to really be integrated,

因為我知道要讓海軍 對黑人平等有多難。

and that was done by Franklin Roosevelt

海軍是最後才對黑人平權的，

as a favor to an African-American man,

那是富蘭克林羅斯福的貢獻，

Lester Granger, that I knew very well.

他是為了一位非裔美國男子做的，

He was the head of the National Urban League back there,

萊斯特格蘭傑，我非常清楚這事。

and when Roosevelt asked him,

他當時是那裡的 全國都市同盟的領導人，

he wanted to appoint Lester as maybe one of his cabinet members.

當羅斯福問他，

Lester said, "No, I don't want that.

他想要任命萊斯特 也許當他的內閣成員之一。

All I want you to do is integrate that Navy."

萊斯特說：「不，那不是我想要的。

And that was what Franklin did.

我想要你做的， 只有讓海軍對黑人平等。」

Well, Franklin didn't live to do it,

所以富蘭克林就那麼做了。

but Truman did it.

嗯，富蘭克林沒有活到見證這件事完成，

But when this woman told me,

但杜魯門完成了。

"I have flown everything there is to fly,"

當這位女子告訴我：

bombers, just all kinds of planes,

「能飛的東西我都飛過了。」

it just melted me, you know,

轟炸機、各種飛機，

just to see how far women have come.

那讓我融化了，你知道的，

And I told her, I said,

看到女人能走到今天這地步。

"Well, you could get into the space program."

我告訴她，我說：

She said, "But Ms. Chase, I'm too old."

「你可以去參加那些太空計畫。」

She was already 60-some years old,

她說：「但，蔡斯女士，我太老了。」

and, you know, you're over the hill then.

她已經 60 多歲，

(Laughter)

你知道，那時已經開始走下坡了。

They don't want you flying up in the sky at 60-something years old.

（笑聲）

Stay on the ground.

他們不希望你 60 多歲還在天上飛。

When I meet women,

待在地上。

and today everybody comes to my kitchen,

當我和女人見面，

and you know that,

今天每個人都來到我的廚房，

and it upsets Stella, my daughter.

你知道的，

She doesn't like people coming in the kitchen.

那讓我的女兒史黛拉很心煩。

But that's where I am,

她不喜歡別人到廚房來。

and that's where you're going to see me, in the kitchen.

但我就在廚房中，

So when they come there, I meet all kinds of people.

而你會和我見面在廚房裡見面。

And that is the thing that really uplifts me,

所以當她們到那裡時， 我見到各式各樣的人。

is when I meet women on the move.

有件會讓我很振奮的事，

When I meet women on the move, it is good for me.

那就是見到在進步的女性。

Now, I'm not one of these flag-waving women.

見到在進步的女性，對我是好事。

You're not going to see me out there waving.

我不是那種搖旗吶喊的女性。

No, I don't do that.

你不會在外面看到我在搖旗。

(Laughter)

不，我不做那種事。

No, I don't do that, and I don't want any of you to do that.

（笑聲）

Just be good women.

不，我不做那種事， 且我不希望你們任何人做。

And you know, my mother taught us ...

做個好女性就好。

she was tough on us,

我媽媽教我們…

and she said, "You know, Leah,"

她對我們很嚴，

she gave us all this plaque,

她說：「你知道的，利亞，」

"to be a good woman, you have to first look like a girl."

她對我們都這樣說：

Well, I thought I looked like a girl.

「若要成為一個好女性， 你首先得要看起來像個女孩。」

"Act like a lady."

嗯，我認為我看起來像個女孩。

That, I never learned to do.

「行為要像淑女。」

(Laughter)

我從來沒有學會這一點。

"Think like a man."

（笑聲）

Now don't act like that man; think like a man.

「思考則要像男人。」

And "work like a dog."

不要行為像男人，思考像男人。

(Laughter)

然後「工作得像狗一樣。」

So we learned that the hard way.

（笑聲）

And they taught you that.

所以，我們費了一番苦功才學會。

They taught you what women had to do.

他們會教你那樣。

We were taught that women controlled the behavior of men.

他們教你女性必須要做什麼。

How you act, they will act.

我們被教導的是， 女性控制男性的行為。

So you've got to do that, and I tell you all the time.

你做什麼，他們就會做什麼。

You know, don't play this man down.

所以你得那樣做， 我總是這樣告訴你。

It upsets me when you may have a husband

不要貶低這個男人。

that maybe he doesn't have as much education under his belt as you have,

讓我很苦惱的是，你的丈夫

but still you can't play him down.

可能教育程度沒有你好，

You've got to keep lifting him up,

但你仍然不能貶低他。

because you don't want to live with a mouse.

你得要繼續把他捧起來，

So you want that man to be a man, and do what he has to do.

因為你不想和老鼠同住。

And anyway, always remember,

所以你會希望那個男人 能成為男人，做他該做的。

he runs on cheap gas.

總之，不要忘記，

(Laughter)

他是靠廉價汽油來運作的。

So fill him up with cheap gas --

（笑聲）

(Laughter)

所以，把他加滿廉價汽油－

and then, you got him.

（笑聲）

It's just so --

然後，你就搞定他了。

(Laughter)

這實在是…

It's just --

（笑聲）

PM: You have to give us a minute to take that in.

就是…

(Laughter)

帕特：你得給我們一分鐘消化一下。

LC: When I heard this young lady speak before I came out --

（笑聲）

she was so beautiful,

利亞：在我出來之前 我聽到這個年輕女子在演說－

and I wished I could be like that,

她好漂亮，

and my husband, poor darling --

我希望我能像她一樣，

I lost him after we were married 70 years --

我的丈夫，可憐的寶貝－

didn't agree on one thing,

我們結婚 70 年之後我失去了他－

never did, nothing,

我們從來沒有共識，

but we got along together

從來沒有，一件共識都沒有，

because he learned to understand me,

但我們能相處得來，

and that was just hard,

因為他學會了解我，

because he was so different.

那是很困難的，

And that lady reminded me.

因為他很與眾不同。

I said, "If I would have just been like her,

那位女子勾起我的記憶。

Dooky would have really loved it."

我說：「如果我能夠像她一樣，

(Laughter)

杜克一定會很喜歡的。」

But I wasn't.

（笑聲）

I was always pushy, always moving,

但我不像她。

always doing this,

我總堅持己見、總停不下來、

and he used to come to me all the time, and he said,

總是這樣做，

"Honey, God's going to punish you."

他以前常常會來找我，說：

(Laughter)

「親愛的，神一定會懲罰你。」

"You -- you're just not grateful."

（笑聲）

But it isn't that I'm not grateful,

「你…你實在不知感恩。」

but I think, as long as you're living, you've got to keep moving,

但並不是我不知感恩，

you've got to keep trying to get up

但我認為，只要你還活著， 你就該繼續走下去，

and do what you've got to do.

你得要不斷試著爬起來，

(Applause)

然後做你該做的事。

You cannot sit down.

（掌聲）

You have to keep going,

你不能坐下來。

keep trying to do a little bit every day.

你得繼續前進，

Every day, you do a little bit,

試著每天做一點點。

try to make it better.

每天，你都做一點點，

And that's been my whole life.

試著做更好一點。

Well, I came up in the country, small town,

我一生都是如此。

had to do everything, had to haul the water,

我在郊區長大，小鎮上，

had to wash the clothes, do this, do that,

什麼都得做，得要去運水、

pick the dumb strawberries, all that kind of stuff.

得要洗衣服、得要做這個做那個、

(Laughter)

摘愚蠢的草莓之類的。

But still, my daddy insisted that we act nice,

（笑聲）

we be kind.

但，我爸爸仍然堅持 我們要有好的行為，

And that's all.

我們要寬厚。

When I heard this young woman --

就這樣。

oh, she sounds so beautiful --

當我聽到這位年輕女子－

I said, "I wish I could be like that."

喔，她聽起來好美－

PM: Mrs. Chase, we don't want you to be any different than you are.

我說：「我希望我也能像那樣。」

There is no question about that.

帕特：蔡斯女士， 我們不希望你變成其他的樣子。

Let me ask you.

這點毫無疑問。

This is why it's so wonderful to have a conversation

讓我請教你。

with someone who has such a long view --

這就是為什麼和有這麼長遠觀察的人

LC: A long time.

對談是如此美好的事－

PM: to remembering Roosevelt

利亞：很長的時間。

and the person he did that favor for.

帕特：記得羅斯福、

What is in your head and your mind

以及他為了誰做那件事。

and what you have seen and witnessed ...

你的腦袋裡在想什麼，

One of the things that it's good to remember, always,

你所見到的、目擊的…

is that when you opened that restaurant,

有件事，每次想起來都很棒，

whites and blacks could not eat together in this city.

就是當你開那間餐廳時，

It was against the law.

在這個城市裡， 白人和黑人不能一同用餐。

And yet they did, at Dooky Chase. Tell me about that.

當時是違法的。

LC: They did, there.

但他們在杜克蔡斯餐廳還是 一起吃。和我談談這件事。

Well, my mother-in-law first started this,

利亞：在那裡，他們一起吃。

and the reason she started is,

我的岳母是先發難的，

because her husband was sickly, and he would go out --

她發難的原因是，

and people from Chicago and all the places,

因為她的丈夫很多病，而他會出門－

you would call his job a numbers runner.

來自芝加哥和各地的人，

But in New Orleans, we are very sophisticated --

你會說他的工作是兜攬彩票賭博。

(Laughter)

但在紐奧良，我們非常世故－

so it wasn't a numbers runner,

（笑聲）

it was a lottery vendor.

所以不是兜攬彩票賭博，

(Laughter)

是彩券小販。

So you see, we put class to that.

（笑聲）

But that's how he did it.

我們把它弄得更有格調．

And he couldn't go from house to house to get his clients and all that,

但他就是那樣做的。

because he was sick,

他無法一家一家去找客戶，

so she opened up this little sandwich shop,

因為他病了，

so she was going to take down the numbers,

所以她開了一間小的三明治餐廳，

because he was sick a lot.

她會去記下數字，

He had ulcers. He was really bad for a long a time.

因為他常常生病。

So she did that --

他有潰瘍。他狀況長期都不好。

and not knowing anything,

所以她那樣做了，

but she knew she could make a sandwich.

她什麼都不知道，

She knew she could cook,

但她知道她可以做三明治。

and she borrowed 600 dollars from a brewery.

她知道她能煮菜，

Can you imagine starting a business today with 600 dollars

她向一間啤酒廠借了六百元。

and no knowledge of what you're doing?

你能想像現今用六百元創業，

And it always just amazed me what she could do.

且還不知道自己在幹嘛嗎？

She was a good money manager.

她所做的，一直讓我覺得很了不起。

That, I am not.

她是個很好的金錢管理者。

My husband used to call me a bankrupt sister.

我完全不是。

(Laughter)

我丈夫以前會叫我破產姐。

"She'll spend everything you got."

（笑聲）

And I would, you know.

「她花掉了你所有的錢。」

PM: But you kept the restaurant open, though,

我會的，你知道。

even in those times of controversy, when people were protesting

帕特：但你仍然讓餐廳繼續營業，

and almost boycotting.

甚至在那個很爭議的時代， 人們都在抗議，

I mean, it was a controversial move that you and your husband made.

幾乎是聯合抵制。

LC: It was, and I don't know how we did it,

我是指，你和你的丈夫 所下的那步棋是很爭議的。

but as I said, my mother-in-law was a kind, kind person,

利亞：的確，我不知道 我們如何辦到的，

and you didn't have any African-Americans on the police force at that time.

但如我剛說的， 我的岳母是個很仁慈的人，

They were all white.

且在那個時候，警方中 沒有任何非裔美國人。

But they would come around,

他們都是白人。

and she would say,

但他們會來，

"Bebe, I'm gonna fix you a little sandwich."

她會說：

So she would fix them a sandwich.

「寶貝，我要為你做個三明治。」

Today they would call that bribery.

所以，她會為他們做個三明治。