字幕列表 影片播放 列印英文字幕 [ Silence ] >> I want to welcome you to this closing keynote for our first Radical Compassion Symposium at Naropa University and especially welcome people who are watching online. Thanks to our partnership with Yoga Journal, a new relationship for Naropa. I want to thank the Editor-in-Chief, Carin Gorrell and the publisher, Jeff Tkach, who came together with us just a few weeks ago and actually allowed us to livestream some of our symposium. Tonight's closing keynote, Dr. Dan Siegel would be up in a moment and be fully and completely introduced by one of our faculty members who I will introduce in a moment. This is the end, last night, the end is actually tomorrow afternoon for all of you here in a very Naropa style, will actually end with a Naropa like process, little less, blah, blah, blah and a little more interpersonal relating which I think is very good the way we began is kind of the way will end. And I think that's an important part of how we bookend this conference and so I'd encourage all of you that have the opportunity to come and join us tomorrow at noon for the closing ceremony. So, I'd like to introduce to you our Dean of Graduate Education, faculty member, Christine Caldwell who teaches in our Somatic Psychology Department and will introduce Dr. Siegel to you all and I hope you enjoy the evening. [ Applause ] [ Silence ] >> Good evening. I'm going to read because otherwise I just won't get it all in. So, it's really an honor and a trill to be introducing Dr. Dan Siegel to Naropa's extended community. Many different cultures and traditions are currently contributing to our understanding of present moment focus and the power of leading a self-reflective and contemplative life, but perhaps more than any other, Dan Siegel is creating multiple networks for us that link theory to practice, east to west, empiricism to the experience, brain to behavior, and mind to heart. By calling, he is a psychiatrist, teacher, therapist, writer, and researcher and he is helping us to gracefully dance between research labs meditation cushions, playgrounds, and family dinners. His accomplishments are many but I would like to briefly highlight two areas of his work that have been game changers, particularly in the field of psychotherapy and well-being and that he will talk with us about that tonight. As we know modern western psychotherapy was founded on the assumption that insight leads to healing Freud called it the talking cure. The idea was that if we deeply examine what we thought and understood the way that early experience shaped us, we would be free to change. While this view has always had some merit, contemplative teachers and practitioners have always known that there was something more. Wisdom traditions, many of which lie in the east have known for centuries that how we think, how we relate to and engage with our direct present moment experience using disciplined, high quality attention can be much more central to well-being than understanding who did what to whom and why. Dan Siegel has created the language system that helps us to understand that both scientifically and experientially. One of the central terms in his new language system is called Mindsight, defined us more than understanding and more than mindfulness. It involves how we focus our awareness on ourselves and on the internal world of someone else. And then use this focus in the service of therapeutic change that can heal communities and families, as well as individuals. The second concept is Neural Integration. Here we see the bridge that he and others have built between neuroscience of the developing brain relationships and present moment awareness. In this concept, we understand that the brain develops first in distinct sections but then the important work begins when these sections wire together, interconnect, and integrate their information and actions. With this wiring together of various brain areas complex, healthy and relational behavior becomes possible. And possibly if we remember the story that Joanna Macy told us yesterday about the activist protecting trees in the Australian rain forest, this neural interconnection may enable us to realize that we are also connected to others apart of all life. The really interesting issue is that attention is a primary director of the neural growth needed for creating this integrated neural circuits. First the attention and care given to us by others and then the patterns of attention we subsequently develop that direct our adult behavior. Dan has been at the forefront of articulating and extending this concept so that we can understand the neurological processes of attention that underlies states of radical compassion. These ideas and others he has pioneered, articulated in his speeches and writings in a really clear and warm and accessible way shifted the emphasis of psychotherapy so that it now includes an examination not so much of what one thinks, but of how what one is feeling and doing right now and how that present-centered experience when guided with consciousness and compassion, can deeply heal us. The application of these ideas into parenting and family life would allow us to take neuroscience and contemplative practices not only into our hearts and minds but also into our homes and into our interactions with our partners, our children, and our communities. Dr. Siegel is currently clinical professor of psychiatry at the UCLA School of Medicine and co-director of the Mindful Awareness Research Center. He has written such best-selling books as "The Developing Mind," "The Mindful Brain," "The Mindful Therapist," "The Pocket Guide to Interpersonal Neurobiology", "Mindsight", "Parenting From the Inside Out", "The Whole Brain Child", and "Brainstorm". Dr. Siegel has lectured for the King of Thailand, Pope John Paul II, His Holiness the Dalai Lama, Google University, London's Royal Society of Arts, and TEDx and now he can add Naropa to that August list. [ Cheers & Applause ] Please join me in welcoming Dr. Dan Siegel. [ Cheers & Applause ] [ Silence ] [ Applause ] >> Thank you so much. It's a real honor to be here with you. I'd like to thank Naropa University for hosting this incredible birthday party in general and the honor I have of participating with you. And Yoga Journal Life for streaming this out to the world and making that happen and all the people who've supported the work that you're doing here. We get the joy of spending almost two hours together. Really diving deeply into issues related to internal practice and our interpersonal relationships and our relationship with the planet. And so what we're going to do in this time is begin with the inner world and so in thinking about how we would spend our time together, I felt it would be really important to actually start with a practice. So you've heard the world I live in which comes from both academics and from clinical practice. It's a field called the interpersonal neurobiology, which combines all the different disciplines of science together into one framework and we're going to talk a lot about that as we go. But let's begin first with an exploration that comes from this field of interpersonal neurobiology and the central idea of integration. So, instead of giving you kind of the-- all the science behind it and the clinical implications of it before we do it, let's just dive in and do it. So when I ask you to do since probably most of you are very familiar with contemplative practice because it's the center of Naropa University's early origins and certainly it gives us time to say, well what is this inner world of our mental life really like? Let's dive in and explore it. So what I ask you to do is just put your stuff down. Let's make sure all our phones are off and even turn them off from vibrate if you can and as, you know, get yourself ready, so sitting up straight like any reflective practice. This one is called the wheel of awareness practice and what it entails is an exploration of different aspects of our inner and interpersonal lives. And to begin with, just to give a little framework to the focus of attention which we'll be really playing with and exploring in just a moment, before we close our eyes, get ready for an inner practice, we do bless you. In fact, let's have a bless you, for everyone who's going to sneeze for this evening. There you go so feel free to sneeze. So, let's just have with your eyes open, let your visual attention come to the middle of the room around here and if you're out in the online world, just let your focus come within the screen to where you imagine in the middle of the world -- room would be. And then send your visual attention back to the far wall here. And now, let your attention come back to the middle of the room and then bring your visual attention to about book reading distance as if you had a book or magazine in your hands and just notice how you can determine where attention goes. And just like the common practice of focusing on the breath, let's just now let our attention find the breath and just do a short bit of breath awareness practice, the basic mindfulness practice of strengthening our attention, sometimes called the Shamatha but it's really a universal practice not just in Buddhist practice to focus on the breath. And let's sense the breath wherever you feel it most naturally, whether it's the air coming in and out of your nostrils or your chest rising and falling or the abdomen moving out and in. Just let your attention ride the wave of the breath, even the whole body just breathing. Let's spend the moment now just ride in the wave of the breath in and out. [ Pause ] And just sensing the breath can bring us to a deep place beneath the surface of all the chatter of our thoughts, and memories, and images, and feelings and for people who feel safe in the water, this can be a useful analogy to going beneath the surface of the ocean. We're deep beneath the surface, it's calm and clear. And from this deep place of tranquility and clarity, it's possible to just look upward at the surface and notice whatever conditions are there. It might be flat. It might be rough waves. It could even be a full storm and no matter what those conditions are, deep beneath the surface, remains calm and clear. And so, we know from all sorts of studies that simply focusing on the breath can bring a deep sense of clarity and strength as it stabilizes our minds, and we'll talk a lot about that later on, but for this practice we'll let the breath go and I'd like to introduce to you to a practice if you've never done it before that we do at the Mindsight Institute called the wheel of awareness. And the idea that is simply this, if you can imagine in your mind's eye if your eyes are closed or if you want to open them and look at me I'll show you with my body, if you can imagine a large wheel with an outer rim and a smaller inner hub that's also a circle. We'll be talking about this visual image and if you're like me, it maybe hard for you to evoke, actually seeing the image and that's fine as long as you have the sense of the idea of a wheel with an outer rim and inner hub and imagine that there's a single spoke that can be moved around from the hub to various places on the rim. So what I'd like you to imagine is this, is that the hub represents the experience within consciousness of knowing. It's basically the most direct way. The simplest way of defining what consciousness or awareness is, it's a sense of knowing. And within consciousness, we not only have the knowing which is represented in the hub, we have the known which could include for example, what you see with your eyes or what you hear with your ears. And the known, which will go through as a review includes what's on the rim, so the rim represents anything that we can know about like what we see or hear. The hub represents the experience of knowing and the way we connect knowing to the known is with the spoke of attention. So the spoke is the way we direct attention and we'll systematically move the spoke around the rim, which if you can picture it like a pizza, we can divide that whole wheel of awareness into four segments. The first segment we'll review includes our first five senses of sight, hearing, smelling, tasting, and touching. We'll then move the spoke over to the next segment of the four and this is the segment of the rim representing our internal bodily sense which in science we actually call this sixth sense. It's called interoception. We'll explore that and then we're going to actually move the spoke around to the third segment of four in the rim. This third segment allows us to explore mental life or feelings, thoughts, memories, hopes, dreams, attitudes, intentions, longings. All of that mental life is represented here on this third segment of the rim. And then as we go around, we'll do some other things including exploring the fourth aspect of the rim, which is our sense of relationships to people and things including outside of these bodies that we inhabit. So that's basically an overview of the wheel with its knowing in the hub, its spoke of attention, and its rim of the known. So let's begin now again, letting your eyes stay open partially closed or closed, it doesn't matter whatever feels most comfortable for you. Let your back be straight, unfold your legs if they're crossed, keep-- if you're on the floor, that's fine, you can cross it but if you're in a seat, it's helpful that both feet flat on the floor. This is an active practice, so we want to have a sense of dignity, our chest could be like, :OK I'm getting ready to go here," and let's begin the practice. Let's find the breath and ride the wave of the breath in and out, letting that deep sense of clarity and calm place us in the hub of knowing of the wheel of awareness. And now let the breath go as your focus of attention, so we're letting the breath go but imagine that you are centering yourself in the hub of knowing, in this wheel, and imagine either visualizing it or just the idea of it, that you're now going to send this spoke out to the first segment of the rim. And let's begin with the sense of hearing and allow sounds to feel awareness. [ Pause ] And now moving the spoke over a little bit this time to the sense of sight and let light feel awareness coming through closed eyelids or you can gently open your eyelids and let us all focus bring light into awareness. [ Pause ] And now moving the spoke over a bit this time to the sense of smell, letting any odors feel awareness. [ Pause ] Now moving the spoke over a bit more, this time to the sense of taste, putting tastes feel awareness. [ Pause ] And now moving the spoke over one more time in this segment to the sense of touch, anywhere where the skin is touching clothing or the floor, skin touching skin, hand holding hand. Let the sense of touch feel awareness. [ Pause ] Now, I invite you to take a bit of a deeper breath as we let these first five senses that bring the outside world into awareness. Letting them go as we imagine moving the spoke of attention over to the next segment of the rim and this is the segment that includes the interior of the body. And let's begin with the facial region, allowing the sensations of the muscles and bones of the facial area feel awareness. [ Pause ] And then, focusing on the sensations from the skin and the muscles and bones at the top of the head, at the top of the skull, and then back to the back of the head and the side where the ears are. And then moving to the sensations of the bones and muscles and the shoulders, and then streaming attention down both arms from the shoulders, to the elbows down to the wrists and then down to the ends of the fingers. And then bringing attention to the upper back and the chest, and then to the muscles and bones in the lower back and the muscles in the abdomen. And now bringing attention to the hips, and then streaming attention down both legs from the hips, to the knees, to the ankles and then to the ends of the toes. [ Pause ] And now bringing attention to the pelvic region sensations, to the genitals. [ Pause ] And then to the sensations of the intestines beginning in the lower intestines and then moving inside the abdomen to the middle intestines in your stomach. And then even up through the center of your chest, through the esophagus up into the interior of the throat. [ Pause ] And now bringing attention to the interior of the lungs and now centering attention in the heart region. [ Pause ] And now expanding our attention to the interior of the body, letting the whole of the interior of the body muscles and bones, our internal organs, setting all those sensations feel awareness. [ Pause ] And knowing that our perception of the interior world, our interoception, is a window into the wisdom of the body invite you now to take in a deeper and more intentional breath as we let this window into the wisdom of the body go for now and we imagine moving the spoke over now to the third segment of the rim. And this is a segment of the rim, this segment that represents our mental life of feelings and thoughts, memories, images, intentions, hopes, dreams, anything that's part of our mental life. This known of mental life is represented here in the third segment of the rim. So with the spoke of attention coming from our hub of knowing, we then aim it at this third segment and we'll do this part of the rim review in two portions. The first portion simply goes like this, from the hub of knowing of the wheel with the spoke of attention going to mental life, simply invite anything at all into awareness, any feelings, thoughts, memories anything. And so in many ways, this is kind of the opposite of a standard breath practice instruction where you're told to focus on the breath and if a thought or feeling or memory intrudes you, let that go and you come back to the breath. This is an opportunity to say to your mental life, bring it on. Anything in there or nothing, whatever from the hub of knowing, you're spoke going out to this part of the rim, you just say, "Come on in," just like a room is on a guest house, anything there just let it come. And let's do that portion now and when you hear my voice next, you'll hear about the next portion of this part of the rim review. So we're just inviting anything in from mental life. [ Pause ] And now for the second portion of this review of our mental life. I invite you again to simply invite anything to come in or nothing whatever is coming from that aspect of the room into the hub of knowing of awareness. Only this time, I invite you to pay particular attention to the characteristics, the qualities by which in mental activity, let's say a thought or it could be a memory, but let's say a thought. How's a thought first present itself to awareness? Is it sudden? Is it gradual? Does it come from one place to the other? What it's like for something to present itself to awareness? Then once it's in awareness, how does that to stay there? Does it vibrate? Is it solid? Is it fluid? What does it feel like to actually have something stay in awareness? And then, how does this mental activity, this thought, how's it leave awareness? Is it just replaced by another mental activity that kind of overlaps it or is there a gap between two mental activities and if there's a gap, what is that gap feel like? So, here I'm inviting you to study the architecture of mental life. How things first present themselves, stay present and leave awareness. And let's begin that practice right now. [Pause] And now, I invite you to find the breath and just ride the wave of the breath in and out. And before we move from this third segment of the rim to the fourth and final segment, we're going to try a step of the wheel where from the hub of knowing the wheel of awareness, we're going to send the spoke of attention out. But instead of going to the rim, imagine that you can bend the spoke around. So it goes out from the hub, it then bends before it gets to the rim and aims its focus of attention, straight into the hub of knowing of awareness. So, for this part of the practice, from the hub of the wheel, you're sending this spoke out from the hub, bending the spoke around. So, it comes back to where it was launched from basically, and aiming attention right into awareness itself. And let's see what awareness of awareness feels like. Let's begin that practice right now. [Pause] And I invite you to find the breath. And ride the wave of the breath in and out. [Pause] Knowing that sensing whatever the hub of awareness feels like is something we can develop more and more as we practice. I invite you now to imagine straightening out to spoke of attention. And moving it now from its focus on the hub to going out to the fourth and final segment of the rim. And this is the segment of the rim that represents what we can call our relational sense, our sense of relatedness or connectedness to things beyond these skin-encased bodies that are part of who we are. So, to begin with, I invite you to just let the sense of connection, here and now with this spoke going to this fourth segment of the rim. Just invite the sense of connection to people for closes to right now. Physically closes to you, just let that sense of connection to those closes to you feel awareness. [Pause] And now, let that sense of connection expand, if you're in this room doing this practice to all of us sharing this room here tonight. And if you're out in another world listening to this, just the people who are outside of this space here and a little bit further away, but still physically somewhat close. Let your sense of connection to this wider set of people feel awareness. [Pause] And now, let that sense of connection to expand even further to people not physically close to you, but your friends and family. Let your sense of connection to friends and family feel awareness. [Pause] And then, widening that sense of connection even further to people you work with. People you work with clinically or you are teaching or get taught by. All the different people professionally you may interact with in your work life. And then, letting that sense of connection to expand even further to people who live in your neighborhood, to people who share your community. And then widening that sense of connection to people who live in your city, to people who live in your state and then widening it even further to open an awareness to the sense of connection to people who live in your country, to people who share your continent. [ Pause ] And then broadening that sense of connection to all human beings who share this common home, we call earth. And then see if you can permit that sense of connection to expand even further to all living beings, all animals, all plants, who share our common home on this planet, to all living things. [ Pause ] This sense of connection what we can call our eighth sense is probably one of the most underdeveloped senses that we have and helping nurture this sense of connection to other people throughout the world and to living beings on this planet. It's probably one of the most crucial missions we can all be on as we expand our sense of consciousness or sense of awareness from the inside out and recent studies have affirmed what contemplative practices have been teaching for a hundreds and even thousands of years that bringing a positive sense, not just of connection but of wishes of love, and kindness, of care and concern out in the world, actually not only bring positive changes out in the world. Recent studies have shown they bring powerful physiological improvements to our own bodily health in many, many ways that we'll talk about. So with that in mind, knowing that science has affirmed what contemplative practices have been teaching for a long time, we're going to do a very basic love and kindness, positive wishes, compassion reflective practice with a little bit of a twist at the end. So, it goes like this. We've been feeling a connection to all living beings, so we'll begin with the wishes to all living beings and especially for those who've never done this before, the way I'll do it is, as you probably heard it many, many times is I'll say part of a phrase and then I'm going to pause and quietly in your mind, you can explore that and repeat the phrase. And then I'll complete the phrase and you'll repeat it the completion and then we'll go on to the next phrase. So we'll begin with, may all living beings be happy and live with a playful and joyful heart. May all living beings be healthy and live with a body that gives strength, energy, and stability. May all living beings be safe and protected from all sorts of inner and outer harm. [ Pause ] And may all beings flourish and live with the ease of well-being. [ Pause ] Now, taking a bit of a deeper breath, we now direct those same wishes to an internal sense of who we are and this internal sense can be represented with the word I for internal. So may I be happy and live with a playful and joyful heart. [ Pause ] May I be healthy and have a body that gives strength, energy, and stability. May I be safe and protected from all sorts of inner and outer harm and may "I" flourish and live with the ease of well-being and now taking a bit of a deeper breath. We now come to the little twist that I was talking about which goes like this. You know, our world we've been taught often from our homes, to our schools, to the culture, from media and other messages we get that the self is a solo act, where the self lives in these bodies we inhabit. But that view, as we'll explore, is a limited view and a more integrative and perhaps accurate notion of a healthy self is where, yes, you have an internal experience the ''I", we were talking about. This way we have a "me" that's the body, giving the body sleep, and nourishment, and caring for the body is really important. That's the "me." But we also have a connected self, where we're linked not only to other people, but to this magnificent and fragile planet of all living beings. And we can encapsulate that sense of a self, as a ''we.'' And if we combine the "me" and the "we," we get a single integrated self that we're going to call MWe, MWe. So we're going to give a loving-kindness set of phrases to MWe and here is how it goes. May MWe be happy? And live with a playful and joyful heart. May MWe be healthy and have a body that gives strength, energy, and stability. May MWe be safe and protected from all sorts of inner and outer harm and may MWe flourish and live with the ease of well-being. [ Pause ] I invite you now to find the breath and ride the wave of the breath in and out. [ Pause ] Knowing that we can all return to this wheel of awareness practice, doing the whole thing or parts of it whenever we feel like it or as a daily practice, I invite you now to take a more intentional and perhaps deeper breath as we let this wheel practice come to a close for today. If your eyes are close, you can let them get ready to come open. If you want, you can stretch your body around, even get up and move around a little bit. [ Pause ] So, thank you for participating in the wheel of awareness practice. We're now going to continue with the presentation. My aim is to have about 20 minutes of discussion but given that we just did the practice, if anyone would like to share anything briefly about just reflecting on your first person experience, that would be welcome. Not so much questions or discussion about the concepts but more just if you want to share what that was like we can certainly do that knowing that you're being streamed and recorded just so that's clear. And no one says, "I didn't know it was going out to all those people." Now that didn't get anybody to get up. OK. So what I'll do then is share with you some of the first person reports from this experience. So I've done these in many workshops around the world. We've had about half a million people downloaded from our website, so you can get various versions of this from the drdansiegel.com website. We just give it away for free and when we do in-person workshops or when we get emails, I try to keep track of all those first person reports. So we have basically data of what the experience is like across many, many cultures, across educational backgrounds, ages, religious backgrounds, all sorts of things. And what has been absolutely fascinating about it, first of all, is if you want to understand mental life, having the systematic reporting is a wonderful way of actually collecting, as a scientist, data because part of when we're going to talk now about what the mind is, is it's about the subjective texture of what our inner life is that we often experience within consciousness. So on one level the wheel of awareness practice is a way to explore the inner world and then we can see what that's like for each of us. The second thing that we'll talk about after we just review that is we're going to talk about what is the foundation for using the wheel of awareness as an intervention? An intervention both on the individual level and we've been teaching the wheel of awareness now to kids in kindergarten and throughout the school years, and the results have been absolutely amazing. So what does it do when you actually give people this tool to what we say is integrate consciousness, and we'll get in that in great detail. Then we're going to move on to the whole topic of compassion, and especially radical compassion and what does this practice tells us about that. And throughout all three of those explorations, what am I going to try to do to you-- with you is-- do to you-- what I'm going to do to you is get you dizzy on the way home. What we're going to do together is explore how bringing all the sciences together, mathematics, physics, chemistry, biology, psychology, sociology, linguistics, anthropology, and all the various sciences that exist. What would happen if you actually took all sciences and created one framework? And that's what we've done in this field called interpersonal neurobiology and there's a long story behind it that we won't get into tonight. But the bottom line is now there's a series of books, my colleagues and I have created a series and then the founding editor of the Northern Series we have 40 textbooks that are now published for mental health professionals to use. We have a new series for educators and all the different books that you heard Christine mentioned in the introduction are written through the lens of interpersonal neurobiology. So I know everyone laughed when you heard the pocket guide because you probably know it's a very thick book. But if you wear cargo pants, it actually does fit into your pocket. So when the book first came out, I asked my daughter if it was OK. She said, "You'll wear cargo pants to a professional presentation." Anyway, it does fit in there. So, there is a pocket guide and we're going to explore then how you can use science to make sure that what you're saying is consistent with the framework but not constrained by the framework. And what I mean by that is if you think about the old Indian fable of "The Blind Men and the Elephant" if you believe there is an elephant, some divisions of science was study the ear. Some will study the trunk, some will study the toes, some will study the tail. They're all right. But, the whole elephant needs a combination of all those disciplines, step one. But step two, is if someone's studied the shoulder and someone studied the foot, you can kind of guess there's a probably knee in there. So, you got to be willing to have the courage to be wrong and say, "Gosh I don't know. But it's probably something that's bending in there, we don't know exactly what it's like, but let's take a guess." So, in interpersonal neurobiology we try to say that all the sciences are fantastic and they're looking at one division or one way of looking at the whole of reality. So, if we're working it right then what E.O. Wilson calls consilience is what we'd be looking for, the universal finding across all different disciplines. And that's what interpersonal neurobiology is. The main textbook of that is called, "The Developing Mind," so if you read especially the second edition, you will see all the science, all the references. If you want just the ideas, it's the pocket guide. I'm giving you all that background, because we're going to go on a whirlwind right now. Where you may hear things go, where does he come off saying that? I just want to assure you that if you dive into the science, like we've been doing for the last 25 years, you actually can explore things like what the first person account is in the wheel of awareness. Or why the research results from mindulness training are identical, basically to the parent-child relationship that produces secure attachment. And when I first said that in Washington D.C. at this big neuroscience meeting to someone from the Mind and Life organization, they said, "I don't think you know what you're talking about?" And I said, "Well I actually don't know what I'm talking about because I've never meditated before in my life." But why are you saying that about what I just said, because I said, I think there's an overlap in attachment and mindfulness, he said "In Buddhism, in Buddhist practice, we try to get rid of attachment." And I said, "What!" And then, I came to understand that its attachment is clinging not attachment as love. So we have to be very careful the words we use. So, part of diving into each of these disciplines like contemplative practices, the discipline for understanding reality is you got to learn from the inside out what each discipline is using as a vocabulary lesson. OK, so that's just the background. So let me just describe to you some of the first person accounts, because it's actually fascinating. Number one, when I first did this extensively it was in Australia and I have-- was on a sixth city tour. Sixth city tour and I had minder by me, and that means a person guarding me from something, I don't know why they do that, but she was by me all the time. And so people at the break would always come up. This would be a day-long conference and sometimes I do the wheel at the ends, sometimes the middle, sometimes the beginning just to mix it up. And in every single one of those cities, someone would come and say, "I've had hip pain for three years, it's completely gone." "I've got shoulder plan, you know, for five years, it's gone." "My elbow couldn't move for a year and half, and now I can move it and the pain is gone." Every city, and this happens all the time. And when I've had people email me, the pain continues to stay away. So, why would a 22-minute practice change things like that? What's going on? So, that's one of the scientific question we have to ask. That isn't the intention of it. The wheel of awareness got designed simply to say to my patients, if consciousness is required for change and in our view, in interpersonal neurobiology what we say health is, is a process called integration, you'll hear about that in a moment, integration is the differentiation of parts of a system and then their linkage. And I had this table I had designed for this new office back in the late '90s where the center was this clear glass and the outside was a rim I would walk them around the table and I would say, "Imagine this is the structure of mental life and imagine this center glass thing is like the knowing. And what if you could differentiate the knowing from this rim that was the known," and then there was like this thing that held up the table. And I said, "Imagine that's a spoke." OK, so maybe it's not a table of awareness, let's call it the wheel of awareness". And then, we will go around with the spoke. And they started getting over anxieties and traumas and depression. It was freaky almost like the thing about the pain. And the idea of it then is purely as an integration of consciousness practice. It literally differentiates the elements of the knowing from the known and then all the knowns from each other. And then, systematically links them through the movement of the spoke of attention. So, that's where the practice came from. Years later, my colleague, Marry Hartzell and I wrote a book called, "Parenting from the Inside Out" where we took the findings of developing mind and translate it for parents which basically said, "Self-awareness is the best predictor of a child attachment to a parent." And what kind of self-awareness, it was a deep insight into where you had been as a kid, but it was also about being intentional as a parent. So we said, well what's a good word for being conscientious and intentional and awake. So, we used the word "mindful", not aware that there was a 2600-year-old practice of meditation. So, we said, be mindful. So then with the book came out, people would come to us and say, when you will teach us to meditate. Now, this is the-- like 2003, 2004. So, I was already thought of as a pry on the university, because I was saying that relationships shape brain structure which people thought was nutty. So, I didn't want to do anything even nuttier than that like meditation. So, I would say, "What do you mean meditation?" And sorry about that, but that's how I felt at those years. I'm so embarrassed to say. And they would say, "Well, look you say meditation is one of your principles." I say, "What do you mean?" "You said in your book." I say, "Where is it?" They point it and say-- they said, "Be mindful." And they would-- they'd point to that and they say meditation. I'd say, "That means be conscientious." They said, "No it's a form of meditation." I say, "What's the form?" They go, "Mindfulness meditation. What are you talking about?" So, soon after that, I met this guy, I was put on a panel with this guy that I didn't know of. So, I read all his materials, his name is Jon Kabat-Zinn. And you can actually get the recording of this, this is in 2005. So, I was there with my buddy John O'Donohue who he and I we're doing all sorts of work on spiritually and all this stuff and, you know, when John was still alive. Bless his soul. He was an Irish Catholic priest and poet and if you never read this stuff, please get his stuff. Anyway, so John O'Donohue, he was there and I was working-- I met Diane Ackerman for the first time. But, anyway, I was on this panel with Diane Ackerman and Jon Kabat-Zinn, so I said to Jon, I said, "I don't know what does meditation thing is because I've never done it before, but I read all your work before coming up on the panel." And what's really weird is all the research you and that guy Richie Davidson have done is basic-- identical what my colleagues in attachment research have done that points to a third thing which is an area of the brain that takes differentiated areas, its right behind your forehead and it links the cortex, the higher part of the brain, the middle, the limbic area, the brain stem, the body, and even the social world that takes five sources of energy and information flow. And all links them together, so I said, all I can tell you is, you're results from mindfulness training and our results from loving attachments relationships that are secure are basically identical. And what was weird was I dropped out at medical school-- I'm getting through the side but you need this-- gives you the feeling of what was happening back then. I dropped out at medical school in 1980, because it was-- people are so not into what was going on inside of us it's all about the physicality of things, and decided to go back, and finish school, I went on my further training. But 25 years almost to the day that I dropped out at medical school I was asked to go back to that same medical school. And I was in the room where I decided to drop out of school, it's called the Ether Dome. And then, Etherized us and it was weird, this is about two weeks after being with Jon on the panel. And I say, you know something-- I don't know what I'm talking about, but its weird this thing called mindfulness meditation have you heard of it? But, there's bad and there's secure attachment and the third thing is, this integrative area of the brain they just seem to all go together and if we have to guess, you'd probably see these particular fibers, and I named the fibers that'll probably grow if you do research. And then after I'm done, this guy comes up to me and he says, "We've just finished that study and you're absolutely right." And it was Sara Lazar's first study of structural change in the brain mindfulness meditation. And that was one of our colleagues. So, it was-- one of these weird things is when you stick with the consilience, you start predicting things like integration as a basic health. So, you know, Australia, one way of understanding that is when people are not integrated, they move either to chaos or rigidity. And so, part of what we're going to explore as we look into this first person accounts. Through lens of interpersonal neurobiology is that chaos rigidity reveal a non-integrated system. And what is integration? Integration is the experience of harmony. It has the five features that spell the word of you rearrange the element's faces. So, F is flexible, so the system can adapt to things. A is adaptive and it not only can change but it can move over time. C is a mathematical term called coherent, which means how it holds together fluidly over time. So it's different from cohesive, it's coherent. F-A-C, E is energize, it has an energized quality to it. And S is stable. You can kind of rely on it. It's like the ease of well-being. You rely on your own mental life. And so, part of what this first person accounts for them, the pain thing was that these people have been stuck either in the chaos of constantly feeling this thing flooding them or you can interpret it as rigidity. They're rigidly feeling the pain in their bodies. And integration is a pathway for liberation. That's the key. People would describe all sorts of things about the emergence of mental life and in the topic I just see a big description of what that is like for many, many people. But the part I want to talk to you about now is when people try to articulate the hub. When you bend that spoke around in the hub and I think one useful way of starting as Jack Kornfield and I started teaching together, he is one person I met after meeting Jon where, you know, I'd never been a part of mindfulness community or meditation community, never studied religion or anything. This is like being-- like in this whole new thing. And so Jack and I, Jack and I started teaching together and we taught in Seattle where there is a lot of high tech people and, you know, we would-- we did the wheel and there was a break after the wheel and then after the break, we got back and people came up to the microphone. There is one engineer, he was 70 years old, never meditated before in his life, just came because he was retired and wandered, see what was going on here. And so he did the practice and he goes like this and he says, "I have no idea what just happened to me." And like everyone is like watching him. And we go, "Well, can you share with us what happened?" And he goes, "I did the wheel and then you had me bend the spoke and I was in this unbelievably open, spacious place and I've never felt so peaceful before in my life and then when the whole thing was over, we did the connection stuff, I went out on the break, I was walking through the garden, it was like in-- at Space Needle place, walk through the garden and I see a gardener with that rubber thing in his hand and he's like this water is like floating all over the grass. And these butterflies are flying around." And he goes, "And the roses were like shimmering," and he goes, "And I had this experience I've never had before in my life where I was one with everything." He goes, "What did you do to me?" He goes, "This is fantastic." And he is not alone. We get people doing that all over the place. And it's not that that happens every time but the issue is what is that? And we're going to talk about that. So from a first person account what's fascinating is whether you've meditated before or not, I've met people who were meditating for 40 years, who do the practice, who are really, really excited about it. And what's interesting about it is Jack and John both say it would meet criteria for mindfulness practice. But it didn't start like that. It started to be an integration of consciousness practice which is so fascinating. So, you'll see me talk a little bit about this, there's a book I will call "The Mindful Brain" which was-- Jon said, "You got to go get some experience because you never had any experience," I said, "Totally." And so then I wrote about book about being this naive dude, you know, spending my first time meditating on a week of silence which is I wouldn't recommend exactly. You know, it was the first time you do that. I thought it'd be cool to be, you know, near all these scientists I always want to meet like my next door neighbor was Paul Ekman and I really know what his feet look like. Because if you've done a silent retreat, you know, it's the royal silence, the noble silence, no non-verbal communication, nothing. You're just looking down, no communication. So I never got a chance to talk to Paul. OK. So we're going to take lessons from those first person accounts in just a moment. Now, from a second person reporting that is we're receiving the first person reports, we're going to start to compile this data about mental life and what is the mind. So, as we now go through this, what we're going to do is look at the science of mind, science of health and from the lens of interpersonal neurobiology and then link it to them-- the third and final segment of our talk is going to be about radical compassion. So, I'm going to say now a couple of take home messages that if we we're spending the year together, each one of these, you could spend two months on each statement. And they're so interesting at least to me. I mean, one time I was writing this book "Mindsight" and I started getting all over excited about things on the phone with my publisher because I want to put this in the "Mindsight" book and she's listening, there is silence on the other end. I said, wouldn't it be so great to really just address the issue of no one on the planet has defined what the mind is? Even the field of psychology, psychiatry, philosophy of mind, they don't have any-- she's silent. I said, "Wouldn't that be a great like part of this book?" She goes, "No. You're probably the only person in the world that's really interested in that," she said. And then she would say things to me like, "Here in this paragraph you need an examples." So I'd write up an example, she was, "No, I mean example that a normal human being would relate to." It was very humbling. So, I want to apologize for my excitement. But here is the bottom line about this part. The word M-I-N-D, the word M-I-N-D, they are descriptions of the mind of course. And in Buddhist practice, there are lots of descriptions of the mind. And I've had the wonderful, wonderful opportunity to meet with all sorts of teachers, His Holiness, the Dalai Lama, all sorts of Rinpoches that people wanted me to meet with and I have spend-- I don't remember their names because they're so-- it's like law firms, I just can't remember their names. Sorry about that. But anyway, but I'll sit down and meet with them and it's very-- it's beautiful. It's beautiful but ultimately my favorite was recently, I sat down with some people actually to help start Naropa, and there would-- the one of the Rinpoches so I was just-- it was supposed to be like a 20-minute meeting, it went for 90 minutes and I started it with, "Can you tell me how you would define what the mind is?" And of course his comment was, "Don't you know?" And it went on like that for 90 minutes. So there are descriptions of course, mental life, different functions, 92 this, 92 that, these all sorts of things but what's fascinating about it and this is to honor all that is that the only definition, let's talk about science at least, in science is to say the following statement. The mind is what the brain does. So the modern neuroscience view is they say that mind is brain activity. And it may be related to brain activity for sure. Well, I'm going to suggest you is that commonly held definition. Short changes thus in a deep way. So, one time I was giving a lecture to the retired professors of UCLA and an unretired professor starts screaming, yelling me for what I'm about to tell you. Saying that I was reversing science for what I'm about to say, so I want to apologize to him. He chased me to my car afterwards and then he's yelling and yelling and yelling and I said, "Do you really think that the anger you're feeling right now in your mental life is the same as ions flowing in and out of membranes of neurons and chemicals being released? Even if they're totally dependent on them, why would you say they're the same?" And he just looked at me and he said, "You're going to probably use this discussion we're having in one of your lectures, aren't you?" I said, "Yeah, yeah I will, but I won't use your name." I don't even know his name. OK. So here is the fundamental problem. Here is the fundamental problem. By equating the mind with brain activity, you stick something very important like the mind and one of its outcomes which is the self inside the head. You stick it in the skull. So it's as if the body is just being used as a transport system, right? I'm going to transport this guy's mind around because mind is just brain activity. So, we got to at least get out of the skull and save the mind is at least embodied, right? But in 1992, I was on the faculty of UCLA running the Child Psychiatry Program and I brought all these colleagues of mine, they used to be my teachers, these scientists from all of these different disciplines together and it was the beginning of the decade of the brain, we said, "Let's talk about the connection of mind and brain". And there was an anthropologist in the room and sociologist in the room and all sorts of other folks including physicist and every mathematician is in the room, everybody was in the room. How could you get everybody get along? And the group is about to implode because everyone can agree what the brain is. What's the brain? It's an organ up in the head a hundred billion neurons, trillions of supportive cells called glial cells. If I'm an average neuron I've got 10,000 connections to other neurons, that makes for trillions of connections and we think the brain works by on-off firing patterns. Firing means ions falling in and out of the membrane called an action potential, the release of a neurotransmitter at the end, there's lots of neurotransmitters. Let's name a few. Adrenaline, what else? Cort-- Serotonin, dopamine, acetylcholine, exactly. So there's lots of them. That's cool, that's great. Some are inhibitory, some are excitatory. I mean, here is the thing. There are more firing patterns in your brain, on-off firing patterns with that various combination than atoms in the known universe. So you should never get bored. Just try it every firing pattern. That's the secret to life. End of story, any questions? So here is the story. What is happening in the brain is the flow of electrochemical energy. Its electrochemical energy transformations and the neuroscientists, you know, we're happy with that. That's what they do. What happens in a group is relationships are the sharing of what? Energy and information. An anthropologist studies how patterns of energy and information flow are institutionalized in various totems and cultural practices that not only happen in the present moment but how they are passed across the generations. That's what cultural evolution is all about. Changes in ideas that help mediate changes in energy and information flow. So here I had this group, and the only way to get them to get along was to figure out how do you connect culture to the cortex? Right? So, I'm-- rather than spending a lot of time with this, here is what I said to them, 100 percent of them agree with this. We went on to meet for almost five years. This definition has been very useful, this definition has allowed us to predict what future science and empirical studies will actually show and you read about that in "Developing Mind". So, from a scientific point of view, we wouldn't never say its proven but so far it's supported by the science and there hasn't been a single thing to disprove it. But that was offered up in 1992. You can see how many people were excited and embracing it like no one. So, here is the definition that said predictive value and that helps us understand the wheel of awareness practice and that gives us a foundation for moving in to the idea of radical compassion. The system that we're looking at, when we look at the mind as an anthropologist or sociologist, or attachment researcher studies in terms of parent-child relationships is about energy and information flow and how it's shared in a relationship. A neuroscientist who's very interested in also studying the mind equally devoted and dedicated and brilliant in all sorts of hard work and wonderful things, is studying energy and information flow often just up in the head, I don't mean just meaning that but that's all that fits in the scanner. So-- and that's great. The brain structures are really, really important. But what they share in common is what did I say? Energy and information flow. OK. So, it's not like rocket science, it may be brain science but what we're saying is that energy and information flow is what an anthropology, sociologist, and relational psychologist study and energy and information flow what the brain scientist study, and what a physicist will be interested and even a mathematician. So how do we talk about the system of energy and information flow? If relationships are the sharing and the word brain, this could be the embodied mechanism. So, we have a place for brain and its whole body so we can talk about the embodied brain, but my daughters says that's redundant. I said why is it redundant? She says, "Have you ever seen a brain not in a body?" But you get the reason we'd want to say that because we don't want to forget about the whole body. But if you just say body, there is so many studies in what's called neuroplasticity that look up in the head that people would forget you're really talking about really, really, really hard science. So, we'll just call it brain but we mean the embodied brain. OK. So, you have an embodied mechanism, that's the inside, you have the sharing, that's the-- between this. What would the mind be? What kind of thing would be both within you and between you? Between you and other people and between you and the planet. What would it be? Its energy and information flow, but what about energy and information flow? So the system we're talking about has three features. It is open to influences from outside of itself, so it's open. It's a system that is called nonlinear, which means that small inputs-- how many of you feel this in your mental life, small things that happened in the morning have a large and unpredictable results. Any of you feel that way? So it's nonlinear that's, just the definition of nonlinear, small inputs lead to large and unpredictable results. And the third characteristic is it's capable of being chaotic, pretty much unpredictable. Any of you feel that way about your mental life? You are what's called a nonlinear open chaos capable system. And in math, now we're going to math that has a very particular definition it's called a complex system. And a complex system doesn't mean you're complicated. It's actually quite simple. Complex systems are incredibly elegant in how they function. Like a cloud floating across the sky is a complex system. What I'm going to suggest to you is the mind is a particular aspect of that complex system. And what is it? Complex systems have something called emergent properties. And that's not just some California feel good term. It's actually a math term that the interaction of the elements of a complex system give rise to a property. And one of those properties has a very cool name. It's a math term. It's called self-organization. Self-organization is what we're going to say that among many other things in mind might be one of those things is this, the self-organizing emergent. So it's self-organizing process. Where is it? It's both embodied and relational. What does it do? It regulates energy and information flow. So it's the self-organizing emergent, embodied and relational process that regulates energy and information flow. Now when you're a regulator process, what are you doing? You're doing two things. You are monitoring something like when you're driving a bike. When you're steering a bike, you got to watch where you're going and feel your body. But the other thing you have to do besides monitoring is modify. So the way you strengthen the mind is you stabilize the monitoring capacity, which is what I think mindfulness Shamatha practice does. And then what you do and this is the proposal to make this mind not only stronger but make it move toward health as you say to yourself, how am I going to modify energy and information flow? I can do it by altering what I send out in terms of photons, right, because that's modifying energy flow. I can change what I say, that's the energy of air molecules moving. I can change the movement of my body, that's the kinetic energy of my body, right? So we're not talking about something mysterious when we talk about energy. And what's information? Information is a pattern of energy that has symbolic value. It has meaning. [ Foreign Language ] That was energy, right? Air molecules moving, but no information, let's just speak gibberish. So, we extract information from energy patterns. In fact, that's what a learning difference is some kids can't do it in the classroom. That's a whole another topic. But the issue here then is mindfulness practice does two things. It strengthens the monitoring capacity by stabilizing with what I call a tripod of this mindsight lens, mindsight is see energy and information flow within you for insight and within other people in between you for empathy. And then mindsight is the third thing. So it's inside its empathy and its integration. So through a long line of raising and exploration, the mathematics of self-organization says this incredible thing. It says this, it says that a system that differentiates its parts are complex system that allows different parts to be unique and specialize in what they do like the left and right side of the brain being different or the cortex and the lower part of the nervous system being different or two people in a relationship. Honoring differences and promoting compassionate linkages for a relationship or having differences in the brain and promoting linkages, in common language terms not in math, but in common language term we call that integration. So integration is defined as the linkage of differentiate parts. The mathematics of complexity says, when a complex system is self-organizing to do something called maximizing complexity, which is basically creating harmony, for it to optimize it's self-organization to be flexible, adaptive, coherent, energize and stable, it must-- not in math terms are we going to use this word in English, regular language, it integrates the system. Amazingly, and this is what was really disturbing me back in the early '90s, all of my patients came in with either chaos, rigidity or both. And when I looked at the DSM, I could reinterpret it as every symptom of every syndrome in the DSM could be seen as examples of chaos or rigidity like the many of manic-depressive illness would be chaos, the depression would be rigidity or in experientially caused problems because manic-depressive illness is not believed to be that, but an experientially cause-like posttraumatic stress disorder. What would be chaotic symptom of PTSD? Flashbacks, intrusive feelings from past traumas. What would be a rigid symptom of PTSD? Freezing, numbing, right? Shutting down, being disconnected from your body, avoiding situations that are related to the trauma. So a given person can have both chaos and rigidity. Here is the amazing thing. Integration when it's present is harmony. It's like a river going through. And when integration is impaired, if you block linkage or block differentiation, you get either chaos or rigidity, so there was a science that explain the patterns of understanding all mental disorders. So the hypothesis from this definition was when we looked in the brains of individuals with difficulties, you'd see impairments integration. And what was found at Harvard University? Martin Teicher found people who are severely neglected or abused, there's various forms of developmental trauma, impairments to the integrative fibers of the brain. The fibers that link widely separated areas to each other. What about in non-experientially related disorders? Hilary Blumberg at Yale University found the integrative fibers from the prefrontal cortex, the right ventral lateral prefrontal cortex to the right amygdala in the limbic area deficient, deficient integrative fibers. What did Marcus Rico [assumed spelling] find at the University of Washington in St. Louis? Impaired integration only in manic-depressive illness, also people with schizophrenia, people with autism. The implications of these are huge because we know from the study of neuroplasticity that you might be able to do interventions by doing something that promotes the growth of the integrative fibers. So this book I wrote called Mindsight is all about that. It says, "If mental disturbances in an individual or cause by impairments integration, could you use neuroplasticity to focus attention and drive energy and information flow through the nervous system based on the inspiration of a relationship that could inspire a person to rewire their brain toward integration," and that's what you'll see in that book. Case study after case study and now a similar controlled study is being done for example with people in manic-depressive illness with mindfulness meditation in individuals with bipolar disorder, manic-depressive illness. David Miklowitz [assumed spelling] is doing that at UCLA. What's being done by Kiki Chang at Stanford? Taking adolescence what risks of drawing manic-depressive illness, and giving them mindfulness practices. Why? Because if you have to say in a nutshell what is mindfulness training do? It integrates the brain. It increases what's called the connectome. Connectome is just a fancy word that scientists are using these days for how differentiated areas are linked. And there are three studies that have come out in the last four years that show mindfulness training increases the connectome. And we can get into the details but it doesn't really matter for our purposes here. But the bottom line is mindfulness is a training that integrates the brain. Now you say, "Well, who really cares about that?" If you care about health, here is what we need to know. Every form of regulation that we looked into, I had 15 interns worked with me to revise a developing mind. And we looked into this in great detail and I said, "Prove these ideas are wrong." It's easy to say they're right, prove they're wrong. Let's write a new book. They thought I was nuts. I said, "That's the only way you could precede." But here is what we found. Every form of regulation, regulating attention, regulating effect or emotion, regulating thought, regulating behavior, regulating relationships, all those come under a general term called self-regulation. All of those forms of regulation depend on integration in the brain. And here's something that took 20 years to figure out. And I told my interns this is too simple to be true, but we couldn't find a single thing to disprove it. Tons of things to support it so we can't say it's proven, but here's the hypothesis. Relationships where the sharing of energy and information flow is integrative stimulate the growth of integrative fibers in the brain that are the bases of all self-regulation. And that's just-- we can't find anything to disprove that, lots to support it. So then you go, "Whoa, that's kind of freaky." Integration is like outside of you and it's within you and that's the amazing thing about this concept. So let's come now to radical compassion and weave together the practice we did in the wheel of awareness. The statement we made that we now finally have in the field of contemplation or science or mental health or parenting or whatever, where this recent book I wrote for adolescents themselves, Brainstorm. It's all based on this idea that you can define what the mind is, not just described it but actually define it. And you can actually say where it is? It's within you and between you. So let's go through some of the take home principles based on everything we've just said across the wheel of awareness practice, giving a definition of the mind and mental health, the notion of integration and now we're going to move into radical compassion. So, here we go. And I'm just going to start with a disclaimer. I feel so optimistic that with the kind of work all of you were doing, all of us are doing by saying you got to start with an inside job and then bring it out. I feel so optimistic that we can make massive changes on this planet for the good. So, I'm going to-- [ Applause and Cheers ] So it's an incredible time for all of us from, we, to make this happen. I'm serious. So let's take this apart one by one. The next disclaimer I want to say is that when we look at modern society and see that in just our larger culture, the self is placed inside the body. And scientists these days, neuroscientists are putting the mind which creates itself up in the head so it's not even just the whole body. But even if you just limit it to the body, so let's see a loving parent treats an infant as if the infant self is only in the body and the made relationships there are important, but not a part of the self. In school, what happens to kids when they get to school? They say this is a really rough world. You got to really work hard, get your grades up, you know, take the standardize test. You got to get those test scores up, get your GPA up. And then you're going to apply to this kind of schools so you get into the middle school that's really hard to get into and then hurry up and work hard. Compete with that person, compete with this person, hurry up and get to the best high school you can because you want to get into the most competitive college you can because you want to get into the most competitive graveyard you can get into. [ Laughter ] And everyone is freaking out. And the implications of a self that is constrained by the boundaries of the skin are that I, me, mine as we know in contempt of practice is a source of not such a good things. But from a science point of view, what it means is I am going to assume that I can consume as much as I want and I have this belief that I've been told that the more stuff I have, the happier I'm going to be. So I'm going to try to get a lot of stuff [inaudible] competing to get into these competitive, competitive, competitive things and then I get things and I get this amount of stuff. And then what do we know from research about people who are focused on getting stuff? You want more this is what's called an insufficiency state of mind. So I get this much and I take a moment to say, "Am I happy?" And I say, "No." So, what's my conclusion? Get more stuff, I get more stuff, and then I get more stuff, and then I get more stuff. [Inaudible] obesity of stuff, right? And I'm miserable, which is all the studies are showing that. Now we know that acts of reaching out to other people feeling connected something larger than a self-defined by your body, feeling a sense of compassion, feeling empathy toward others and then feeling the suffering of others and then reaching out in wise and skillful ways to help others, that's the definition of compassion, one definition of compassion. Compassion brings happiness. Not focusing on stuff and not focusing on the idea that this self is in this body. That's actually the source of well-being. It's called Eudaemonia. That's what the Greeks called it. And what do we know from Barbara Fredrickson's study, understands controversial but that and other studies have come out. It actually improves the epigenetic molecules, these non-DNA molecules that sit on our genes that help prevent inflammatory diseases like some forms of cancer and some forms of diabetes. We know that developing this kind of presence to be in the world where you say it isn't just about me and accumulating stuff. It's about me entering this receptive state, and we're going to get to the wheel in just a moment, this open space where I realize you and I actually part of one whole like that guy said when he went out in the engineer when he went out in the garden. That state is a hugely integrative state. These little encapsulated self-states are impaired integration, so of course modern society is filled with chaos and rigidity and people feel horrible and they don't even know what to do about it. Compassion is, yes, feeling the suffering of others and reaching out. But when we did a conference call the Seeds of Compassion, you can watch this online, and I was asked to be on a panel with Richie Davidson and Andy Meltzoff and Alicia Lieberman and Dan Goleman and His Holiness the Dalai Lama, to present to His Holiness the science of compassion. And I said to His Holiness, this in 2008, I said this is really a troubling time because science shows us that when we're threatened we increase the biological thing we've inherited which is to live with in-group, out-group distinctions. That allowed us to survive in the past, so if you're in cave A and the other folks were in cave B, if cave B came to get your stuff you would kill them or you'd die. So those of us who had this in-group, out-group distinction we survived the cave B assault. That's just our history. We're not at fault for the brains we've inherited from millions of years of revolution but we are responsible for rising above their innate tendencies to make us act in certainly ways. So I said to His Holiness. I said the first thing to say is that science shows in over 200 studies, that the more threatened we are the more in-group, out-group distinctions pervade us where we treat people who are similar to us in our in-group, we treat them with kindness, and compassion, "Oh, sweetie come here." That's wonderful. But if someone is in the out-group, we treat them with more hostility, under threat especially. That's called terror management studies, if you want to look that up. Second state of studies, if you give a photograph of a person's face and just have a little paragraph where you can identify with the paragraph or not, same face. The circuitry of compassion that we know is somewhat involved with feeling empathy and compassion toward others, it turns off when the paragraph is not even related to. In this particular study, these are a bunch of Dark Myth undergraduates. They have the same picture but in one picture it said, "OK, this person graduate from Dark Myth. He went is now working at Startup. He loves playing video games, you know, and he likes this kind of music which is popular that time." The other paragraph with the same photograph said, "He dropped out of high school. He loves to move the grease around in garages and plays with Barbie dolls while he listens to classical music", something like that. No circuitry of compassion, right? So I said to His Holiness, I said, "What are we going to do? This is a problem." And he said this beautiful thing which he said there's two kinds of compassion. There's personal compassion for people, your friends and family and you learned that from being loved by your parents and that's a wonderful thing, that's a necessary thing but it's not enough. We need to have practices of universal compassion. What does he mean by universal compassion? It means that you can even embrace the suffering of your enemies and you can move beyond in-group, out-group distinctions, is really what he's saying. So then he said, "But, you know, in religion we haven't done a good job trying to make the world more compassionate place." Then I go "Oh my God, he's going to get everyone mad at him." He goes, "So, you guys figure it out." Come up with the secular approach that everyone can embrace by well-being. And then 14 months later, I was with him in Vancouver and so I gave him my homework assignment, which I'm going to give to you right now. Integration is the basis I believe of health. Every living being on this planet has a right to health. Therefore, the universal, that secular, is everybody has a right to integration. Now, well how does that relate to compassion, and especially radical compassion which I would define as universal compassion. This idea that we rise above just reaching to people we know and that's why we did the eighth sense of trying to move beyond that. Integration when it's made visible, rises above that and brings out kindness and compassion. Integration made visible is kindness and compassion. What's kindness? I would define kindness as honoring and supporting one another's vulnerability. So you drop beneath all the external adaptations of self-identity and self-protection and all this stuff we'll talk about in a moment with the wheel. And you drop to an open place, where you live an authentic life. Now, you have to have the courage to be vulnerable but that's would kindness permits. And what's compassion? Well as we define it, compassion is having empathy so you understand the internal experience of someone else. But then moving beyond just empathy to feeling their suffering and then moving beyond just feeling their suffering but actually imagining how you'd take an action to reduce that suffering and doing it with wisdom, and Paul Gilbert writes beautifully about it. And Paul and I were just teaching up in Seattle together last week. And it was fascinating to actually think about that. We're going to work together again in a couple of weeks in San Francisco on a whole conference on compassion, the science of compassion. And we're going to have one whole meeting with kids from middle school and high school. Because this can't just be for adults and it can't just be for scientist. So here's what want I to say as I bring this part to an end and then we'll have questions and discussions. The wheel-- and put on your seatbelt for this part. I was asked to spend a week with 150 mostly physicists at a conference called Science and Spiritually. And I just kept on asking these physicists, what is energy? What is energy? What is energy? And, you know, in various ways they would say things like "We don't really know," or, "There's various forms of it, like light energy, the energy of sound, the energy of touch, electrical energy, chemical energy, all the things we've talk about." OK, so there's different manifestations. I said, "But, what is it?" "What is it?" You could imagine what a nudnik I am, you know, because I would ask people about the mind and other set saying, but here was energy because these are physicist. And this is what they said. And you won't really see this written so clearly as what they described but this is what they say, "OK. If you had to lay it out, energy is a potential to do stuff." I said, "Energy is a potential to do stuff?" They go, "Yeah." I go, "That sounds pretty cool. Tell me more. How do you measure this potential to do stuff?" They go, "Oh, that's easy." I said, "OK, what is it?" "It's like a probability curve." I said "What do you mean?" "It's a probability curve the goes between certainty and uncertainty." I said, "Really?" I said, "Yeah." I said, "Cool, that's great." So the conference ended and I'm riding this train back to the airport. And I got three students with me who were there, and I said, "Dan, you know, no one ever talked about what a mind was or what-- how that relates to the brain or anything. We just missed that in all this whole week." I said, "Well I think I got some insights from these physicists." So I drew this picture that you'll see in the Pocket Guide or The Mindful Therapist book. Basically, here's what I want to propose to you. The wheel of awareness is a metaphor. There's no wheel anywhere. I mean, there's a table on my office but there's no wheel anywhere. I don't want to disappoint you. There's no wheel. But what is it a metaphor for? Here's what I think is going on. This is a total guess. It's building on the science. It's trying to be consistent with all these first person accounts have been from hundreds and hundreds if not thousands of people that have reported it. And then we have lots and lots of people who've done it. So, here's what I think is going on. I'd like you to picture the energy curve, its probability curve the physicist are talking about. On one end, its certainty, and that's like when you observe a photon, you say this is exactly where it is. But at other times it's uncertain and its furthest distance from certainty is complete uncertainty. And if we graft that out, which everybody did on the train for these students, and say it's got this dimensions where the zero point of this X axis, all on this X axis is like a plain and that's zero certainty. And what zero certainty is is infinite possibility. By being unconcern, it could be anything. So let's just call that a plane of possibility. What arises from the plain are various degrees of increased certainty basically. So let's go midway and say, that as you rise above the plane of possibility you get to something like an intention or a mood. And as you keep on rising above it you get to something called thinking or remembering or feeling. And as you move all the way up, so let's call it a peak of certainty, you've arrived at a specific thought or specific emotion or specific memory. And that mental life as we've defined it is the movement of energy. Now what is it really mean to regulate energy? If the physicists are right it means moving the energy probability curve. And what that means, is that all these reports when people can articulate with the hub of the wheel was is that the hub of the wheel of awareness knowing is the plane of possibility. And that the experience of accessing a mood or an intention is your capacity to become aware of this energy curve moving upward, not all the way to certainty, but moving above the plane. And then, let's just call that a plateau, when it rise even further and it gets closer to a peak level you get a feeling like you're thinking about something but it's harder to detect. Maybe you felt that way as what people describe. And then bam! When it's at thought, when a possibility has turned into an actuality that's what our mental activities are, and that in this continuum we have a proposal of how consciousness itself relates to mental activities. Now, that we can spend three days doing nothing but talking about that but I want to relate this to compassion. If this hypothesis is true that the mind is a self-organizing process that is both embodied and relational, so it's within us and between us. And then what is it doing? It's regulating energy and information flow, then the experience of mind is to move the probability curve continually back and forth and back and forth between the knowing of awareness, the hub, which is the equivalent of this open plane of possibility and all the things in between of your intentions, your moods, your thinking and your thoughts, your emoting and your emotion, your remembering and your memory. And then what we do in contemplative practice is we strengthen the mind's ability to stabilize all that, I'll have you consider by strengthening the capacity of a person to bring that energy curve to the open plane. Now here is the thing for compassion, because obviously that's an entire year we could talk about that has to relate to compassion. The place where we have personal identity is the metaphor, it's on the rim so that your peaks and your sub-peak values and your plateaus, your intentions, your moods, they're different from mine and different from the person next to you and different from the person next to you. That's fine. Personal identity emerges in these peak values and sub-peak values of the energy curve. But here is the key experience I want to offer to you. The plane of possibility would choose the equivalent of the hub in you is identical to the plane of possibility in me. Infinite possibility is the same. And the place that we all find our deep connectedness is when you teach people to drop beneath their peaks and plateaus and strengthen the mind's capacity to come back to the wheel metaphor to the hub of the wheel of awareness. And that when you do that, like that guy did in the park, suddenly you've dissolve the way all the rim activity, all these peaks and plateaus that keep us separate from each other. And sitting in that hub for a guy who never meditated before a day in his life, he is now realizing energy and information flow with that kind of presence because this is the presence that arises from this plane of possibility. That he now is not as a metaphor, not being poetic, he actually is aware of the truth which is deeply are all deeply interconnected. So when I was doing the practice with you and we're all doing different parts but especially when we bend the spoke around, I did it myself and I just had this feeling of unbelievable connection. When I look out at all of you right now, we are all, in my suggestion, we are all nodes of a larger system where the interconnection, the energy and the information flow between us are the interconnection of these nodes we get born in to which is called the body. And what's happened in our modern society is we've confused the node for the self. But it's the system that's the self. And the only way to get aware of that is to do the internal work because the brain has a vulnerability, as Einstein said, to develop a delusional belief because of all the cultural practice we have, that actually the self lives in the body. But the system is the self. And when we do that, then you can enjoy the node of your body, that's cool. Your body is real. And you only get it for about a century, right? But here is the thing. Energy and information flow patterns that all of us are trying to create in a movement toward radical compassion. We need to support love and families, yes. But we're talking about moving beyond that and saying we've inherited these bodies with these brains, with these in-group, out-group distinction. We've got to train people to drop to this open plane of possibility, get to the hub of the wheel. So they can actually not just hear it, but feel it from the inside of how no matter what my rim points are saying that is all this thing, oh your different from me, I drop beneath that. And I have the strength to see beyond these evolved patterns of top down distortions that keeps us from really being present. So the work we all have to do whether we're scientist working with, seeing where all this is happening in the brain or whatever or working in relationships in homes or in schools or working with the larger culture. The time is right now, because the self is distributed. We are just nodes in the distributed self. And this concept of we, allows you to have the joy of your body and the joy of your interconnectedness. And together we can make this a more integrated, kinder and more compassionate world. So thank you so much for your kind attention. [ Applause ] Thank us, thank us, thank us. So, we do have time for a discussion which is wonderful. I invite you to reflect on these things and work together, you know, this is a together thing as the saying goes, "It's better together." And the wonderful thing for me trained as a scientist but working as a clinician and being just a person on the planet is there is no need anymore for science and spirituality and well-being and everyday living to be separate at all. They are all a part of one thing. [ Applause ] And the work is also love. This is hard work but it's also filled with joy because even when you reach out to connect with other people's suffering, you increase states of integration, you know? And we have to realize we are literally all in this together. It's not just some little saying it's something we can make happen. So there are two microphones here. I again want to thank you so much and let's have a discussion. >> Hi Dan. >> Hi. >> Welcome to Naropa. >> Thank you. >> I discovered your work in 2008 in an undergraduate class here. Studied stuff at Naropa University that you can't study anywhere in Australia. I know you've been there but anyway. >> Yes. >> So welcome. I'm so excited. >> Thank you. >> This whole weekend has been full of my heroes. But just a little request, you didn't teach this today and I think you should. >> No, no. And the hand model of the brain, I was kind of referring to it but you're aware of it. >> I saw the gestures, yeah. >> Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I could do it quickly but it's in all the different books. But the idea that's being asked is, you know, that when people have a model of the brain and if this were more focused on, you know, well-being and stuff like that. By knowing about the particular surface of the brain and how to differentiate it, you can stream energy and information flow within your inner life to promote integration. And the Mindsight book goes through that in great detail and it starts out with a hand model, but basically it's-- your body is down here, your wrist represents your spinal cord, you brain stem is here, your limbic area here, two thumbs be a good model and your cortex is here. So, you learn the different functions as you're suggesting. And by knowing the functions as one of my-- as a mother in on of the workshops I was teaching said, "I realized it's not my fault but it is my responsibility." She was flipping her little art, you know, saying not going to do so well. So she realized instead of beating up on herself, by understanding the brain you could be kind to yourself and have more self-compassion. So, that's just a quick model but thank you for being here. Yes. >> So a certain feeling that I've been getting throughout the weekend is for most of our presenters is that here at Noropa particularly and probably a lot of the people tuning in, we're basically preaching to the choir. And as you said, this works is not just for scientist and for-- I'm not sure who else you were saying, scientists and-- >> Clinicians, parents-- >> -- clinicians, meditators-- >> -- human beings. >> -- yes, human beings. >> Turtles and-- >> And it seems like a lot of the presentations are for people who are from highly educated communities and I'm wondering, you know, how-- and I'm not sure and I think this is a we, you know, question it's not just to you but how do we take these kinds of concepts and this kind of learning into communities that don't have the language, don't have this highly educated experience to support the understanding of some of what we're talking about here. >> Well, a lot of, you know, a lot of the books for example that I write with my colleagues Mary Hartford [assumed spelling] or Tina Bryson are to do exactly that, so we don't talk about all the science. This is a university. Here, it's a very deep learning so I covered a lot of the very deep science. But for example we're teaching the wheel of awareness practice in the book called The Whole Brain Child just so you had to teach to kids. We're teaching it to kindergartens all over the place. And by kids learning to distinguish the knowing from known, they're able to achieve all sorts of shifts in the way they comport themselves at five years of age, they never hear about the plane of possibility and all that kind of stuff. So you can do the practices without all the scientific background. I mean, I'm a scientist and I thought you guys might be interested, so we covered it-- >> I love it. >> -- but you don't need to. And in terms of the practice I think there's a simple message that basically is this. We've come into these bodies with brains we didn't invite but that we live in that have certain proclivities. It has a proclivity to eat a lot of sugar. So you got to rise above that as we're going to need to smoke cigarettes or whenever you're going to do to get addicted to it, you got to rise above that. And like in the Brainstorm book, I invite the adolescents saying, "Hey, this is your life, not the adults, but you got to know about your brain." So I wrote a book for adolescents and it's the same thing for the whole planet. We got to realized we've come in these bodies but we're going to kill each other in the planet if we don't rise above that. So, it's not our fault but it is our responsibility. So the practice can be something in terms of universal practicing of radical compassion, has got to be something like we have a brain vulnerability to be in-group, out-group distinction and be towards materialism that we need to rise above or we're cooked literally, with climate change issues. So, when the climate change folks at the Garrison Institute asked me to do the keynote presentation there, you know, I said I don't-- it's not field, they said, "No, come, come, come." And I said, "What's the problem?" They said, "Well we try to inform people, it doesn't help. We try to scare people it didn't help. We don't know what else to do." I said, "Well if you-- informing them didn't work and scaring didn't work, you got to transform them." And, so this is basically a form of personal transmission to dissolve the delusion of our separateness and realized were own this together. And that does not have to be a supper sophisticated thing. The good thing about it is everyone is going to benefit from that. It's just the matter of doing it. >> Thank you-- >> Thank you. >> -- and thanks for your presentation. >>Thank you. Yes. >> Yes. >> We'll go back in forth. >> Sure. So, I work with a group called Social Movements Research group that deals primarily with individuals who suffer from dissociative identity disorder. >> Yes. >> And this has been, I mean, the main founder of it has been working with people with DID for about 20, 25 years. And has discovered that when one personality is in what you're calling the hub I think that the other personalities are able to exist autonomously and consciously outside of that space and I'm wondering how from your position you would reconcile that. >> Yeah. So, you know, I've been working with people with DID for over 30 years and it's, you know, the area I've used to write a lot about and still work with. So, I'm very familiar with that. Dissociation as you know is a fragmentation of the mind that the research suggest, at least in over 90% of people happens when there's some form of early severe and chronic abuse before the age of 7. In my field in attachment research, what we've been able to demonstrate is that disorganized attachment is at least one cause, maybe there are others, of dissociation, of pathological dissociation. So, there are lots of ways in which trauma literally impairs the integration of the brain and so you can have all sorts to things going on. I actually have a patient with DID who wrote me an e-mail about using the wheel of awareness and you'll see it-- I can't remember which book it's in ,it might be in either Mindsight or The Mindful Therapist or The Mindful Brain, one of those three. I just don't remember which one, too many minds in there. So, anyway, you'll see here the e-mail she wrote and she found it extremely helpful. So you can absolutely have fragmentation of consciousness. And it's an interesting question about, you know, the knowing. You know, it isn't so much that I think there are different hubs. It's that the fragmented personality states in my experiences are more like rim states. And then you have a bunch of rim states that are separable and at least in the way-- they way I work with people, the hub becomes this universal across all the different states that are more like on the rim. And then the work becomes really workable. There are certain challenges of course when-- anyway, it's a complicated thing to like the treatment. But anyway, one thing I just want to say is that it's very clear at least in my look at in all of the research, the clinical work. The sad thing is that many clinicians don't think DID exist. They think it's a distortion of the clinician who's making up the term, but I think there's plenty of research that show it exist. At least my clinical experience, and the research would support this, you don't get a general therapy effect. You got to specifically work with a different associative states in order to see improvement. So, one thing you might find interesting to do is Richard Schwartz [assumed spelling] and I are going to do for the first time, a conference together. And Richard Schwartz is one of those internal family systems work. And, so we're going to talk about interpersonal neurobiology and the frame on dissociation and the work on internal family systems and that might be of interest to you. Yeah. But thank you. Yes. >> Thanks a lot for this. It's been amazing to listen to you talk about this and using the language that you have for it. I'm a wilderness therapist here in town and I work with-- we do a lot of community-based work with folks with addictions and different issues that their working on. And we're focusing a lot around technology and video game addiction and being a wilderness therapist of course we do a lot of essential stuff and just really realizing how it's a different kind of connection, you know, social media, being video game, this kind of personalities that their working on online and I was just wondering, if you could talk a little bit about that. >> Yeah. Yeah. >> You know, you talk about integration and connection and it's so great that I can call somebody or face time somebody in Japan, you know, with this thing I carry on my pocket but it's also-- so, you know, especially video games, it's just visual and audio. >> Yeah absolutely. No. >> Yeah. >> It's a really important question you're raising. There's a conference that I participate in every year called Wisdom 2.0 and you might think about coming to that in San Francisco because this is-- your question is what we talk about like for four days just this one question. So, I'll just briefly share with you some of the thoughts about it and certainly Sherry Turkle's work both in her recent one, Alone Together but also her prior one which I think it's called Screen Life, would be an interesting thing for you to look at that work. Here's the problem with-- I find with social media. It isn't that there's something inherently wrong with it, just to start with the social media piece. It's that we want to really encourage what's called contingent communication. That is not where you're posting something and then that's it, you just send it out. You want to be in the moment having a nonverbal connection with another person, eye contact, facial expression, tone of voice, your posture, your gestures, your timing, your intensity of response, like let's all do those so we all know what they are. Let's do it together. Eye contact, say it please. >> Eye contact. >> Facial expression. >> Facial expression. >> Tone of voice. >> Tone of voice. >> Posture. >> Posture. >> Gestures. >> Gestures. >> Timing. >> Timing. >> Intensity. >> Intensity. >> So, thank you, thank you. So, you know, when we don't have the nonverbal part we-- in chatting and texting all that stuff. You know, you're missing out on that. And my deep concern about the next generation is this incredibly deep loneliness that people feel. >> Oh that's exactly what I work with. >> Yeah. So being in the wilderness and being, you know, this idea that Mark Birkhoff [assumed spelling] is talking about, you know, rewilding [phonetic] the idea of being in nature. Even the idea just to play in spontaneity where you're connecting with people wherever if they our interpersonal neurobiology conference this year is on play and this importance of just being presents. You know, being present so you can actually be there. You're not really presents when you just upload stuff. That's the thing. Now, I once really got down on this in Australia actually and if someone said, "How you doing?" I would have say, "It wasn't doing well," because one of the Australian researchers just blasted me in this knight-- whatever the equivalent of a female knight from England we were both saying, "Yeah, yeah, be careful, be careful." She said she had done a study of 100,000 adolescents on social media and for 80% of them they actually increase face to face time through social media. And I know for my kids, they do that. My son was just traveling around the world and, you know, if he went to Ukraine, he would type on his Facebook thing headed to Ukraine, anyone there? And someone from college to say, "Oh yeah Beth is there." And they would write a Beth and then bam! He was staying with her for a month. You know, now she's my daughter-in-law. No. [ Laughter ] So, you know, all sorts of cool things can happen. So, there is nothing wrong with this. It's how we use it from what is keeping us from doing. Same thing is true with video games. >> Yes. >> You know, video games could be very exciting. Surgeons that do video games have actually better eye-hand coordination. So, we can't just knock it, we just have to see-- we have to make sure that the fundamentals of life are not being missed. And I think David Rock and I put together called the wheel-- the Healthy Mind Plater of seven things we should do everyday. And, so for a kid or adolescent, they should be doing these things everyday. I mean, sleeping well, interacting with each other face to face, having physical activity, focusing well, and not getting distracted. And all sort of things in there. So there's a whole lessen. But please come to the wisdom conference and-- - >> It's called wisdom 2.0. >> Wisdom 2.0 just put that in and you'll see the line up. >> Awesome, thank you. >> Yeah, great. Thanks. And also it stream. So if they can't make it to California, they just stream that whole thing, yeah. Thank you. Yes. >> Hi-- >> And let me just tell you. I have attention excess disorder, so I could just keep on going. So, I may-- OK, we're in no hurry, cool. Please. >> First all, just so much gratitude for the contributions that you've been making to our field. It's just been so amazing to be able to connect with children and young adults through what you're teaching and have ways to explain it to people as to what happened. >> Thank you. [ Applause ] >> So I heard you mentioned the eighth instinct. >> Yes, the eighth sense. >> The eighth sense. And I was curious if you could say a little more about that and where we might be able to find more information on that. >> Yeah. I mean, when I was-- you know, doing the wheel with my patients it was like just sort of like simple math, it was like OK you got your first five senses and I knew as a scientist that for over 100 years we've called interoception which means perception of the anterior, the sixth sense. So before it was co-opted, I mean, you're talking to the death. So the sixth sense actually, you know, interoception. So then when it got to mental life I said, all right well let's call that the seventh sense, I don't know whatever. And then I realized there was something more than that. There was also an eighth sense which is the feeling you have of being connected, so the people, the planet, stuff like that. The sense of awe, gratitude, all these things develop this-- the eighth sense. I really do believe that the eighth sense is one of the most under developed senses. So like right now for example I just want to just pause for a moment and let's think our interpreters for making this available for our understanding. [ Applause ] You know, so we have all, I mean, this is a beautiful way I've seen with translation with American Sign Language. Energy and information flow is how we connect with each other. And so rather than just thinking of it as many social neuroscience do, and I want to make this clear. Social neuroscience is one branch of neuroscience which is a branch of biology. Interpersonal neurobiology sounds the same. I made up that term a long time ago just to mean everything from the personal, meaning the internal and the interpersonal and I put in some science thing in there too like neurobiology. So, it's different from social neuroscience. So a social neuroscientist that I talked to saying that this is just social stimuli and that the mind is just brain activity related to the input of stimuli that leads to feeling, thoughts and behavior, that's a quote. So, if I say the mind is between us, they're going to know it isn't. The brain is just social and mind is just brain activity. So, I want to be-- make sure you're not going to get into trouble if you go to a party tonight or tomorrow and you hang out with a bunch of card-carrying neuroscientist and talk like we're talking tonight. They're going to roll their eyes and they'll say, "That's not the way we think in science." And so, I just want to be just forewarned and I don't want to protect you because what we've been talking about I feel very deeply as a scientist, thinking in this interdisciplinary way of interpersonal neurobiology, that this has a solid foundation in subjective experience and also in predicting scientific outcomes. So, for all the criteria of science, I feel very strong about it. But it's not what scientists are saying. So just be aware of that. So in terms of the eighth sense, for a society I feel like it's the sense that we so deeply need to re-awaken. Because for example, when kids are not out in nature, we had a wilderness person here and you heard earlier in workshops about wilding and stuff. To not be in nature just disconnects us from our connection to the planet, right? And that's a serious problem. So we treat the planet like a trash can. >> Yeah. >> You don't want to treat your living room like a trash can. Why should we treat the planet that way? So, we need to really open up this eighth sense seriously. And there's no time like the present. This is, you know, when my kids were younger, they would say, "Why are you traveling so much?" I used to feel guilty but I said, "There's a lot that needs to be done in this planet." And I felt it was for them and their generation. We've got to take care as much as we can in expanding awareness, in expanding these senses that you're talking about so that together, you know, this is a work that it's not going to come from some president and it's not going to come from chair people of departments of academic institution, it's not. It's got to be a grassroots effort. And if you read the book by Christakis and Fowler called Connected, it was all about the science of how deeply connected we are. That basically affirms what Gandhi said, "We must be the change we wish to see in the world." So that's the good news. Start with yourself. Work with other people around you, your friends, your family, you know, your clients, your patients, your students, whatever nd let's get this out there. It's a grassroots effort. But I deeply believe that we can make this happen. >> Thank you. >> Thank you. Yes? >> Hi there. >> Hi. >> Thank you for being here again. >> My pleasure. >> And I'm just really curious about this concept of separateness that, you know, we hold in our brains and that pervades, you know, culture and time for so, so long. And the example that you gave about anthropology and science relating to, you know, back in the days when we were cavemen and it was about survival, right? And I get that as being some evidence. But then I have to think about like the wisdom traditions that had been around for hundreds of years and got a space societies where they knew deeply about this concept of we and this idea of interconnectedness. And how that also exist in evolution and just any other evidence or explanations that you have about why separateness continues to be such a concept that we relate to. >> Yeah. You know, in anthropology, there's two terms and I want to make sure I get them right. One is called an individualistic culture and the other is called the collectivistic culture. And so, what we see in fact in some cultures, there is no word for I and everything is seen as we. And then in our culture, modern western culture, you have to be very careful of that, I was once a teacher of the Dalai Lama in German and my son was there sitting next to me and we had this sort of small little intimate thing and so we were asking questions so I said to His Holiness, "You know, what can you help us with, you know, western culture where, you know, we're so individualistic and stuff like that?" And so His Holiness goes, "You're really mistaken when you think it's just the west. It's the whole world, the east, the west like that," and my son said "Oh the Dalai Lama got you," you know. [ Laughter ] So I wanted you have to be really careful, making generalization is the point of that. So, I guess what this is an argument for is something in between that we haven't created yet in our humanity, which would be not individualistic and not collectivistic. Collectivistic, meaning, you lose individual stuff. Individualistic is where there is no real sense of connection. Some-- The we is the idea like I use to teach about these talks called Me to We, and one of my online students who was in the workshop, she got really upset. And I said, "What are you upset about?" She goes, "You've taught us to be really in touch with our bodies. That in attachment terms you want to have self-awareness, that you want to have this presence of mind, you wanted, you know, really take care of your self, that's me." I said, "Yeah that's great." She goes, "Why should we dump that and just go to we?" I said, "I'm not really saying that." She goes, "Look at the title of your talk, Me to We." So I said, "Well, it's more like not only me but also we." And she goes "Well that doesn't rhyme." And so-- [ Laughter ] And so I said, "OK." And that's when I made up the word mwe [phonetic], and I said, "OK, they're both." So that's the idea of it. And in terms of the practice, those are contemplative practices that are being in touch with the interconnectedness of everything. That takes effort, you know. And so there is a tendency I think to have this delusion that Einstein talked about and, you know, His Holiness, my God, since what, he's six or seven years of age he's been meditating from five in the morning till like 11 in the morning, you know, six hours of meditation everyday. And, you know, I'm sure he's still has all sorts of things that he struggles with. So, you know, this is the idea of, can we weave into the culture, modern culture, from a scientific grounding-- a statement that like this next booking I'm writing is kind of look at-- it's an academic book, but it's trying to look at it head on. Let's not put the mind inside the skull that that's a serious assault on what you're talking about this interconnectedness of everything that there is a fundamental mental process that is much interconnected as internal. So, you know if there's any little way where science can contribute to that, it's to stop saying those things. The mind is just brain activity, because I think it really gets us into serious, serious trouble. And then, you know, how we help parents expand that, you know, by stopping this feeling of competition. Because there are all sorts of ways that culture mediates this, you know, and there are so many studies that show acts of compassion or generate health. You know, acts of compassion, you know, the simplest study, you give someone 20 bucks and you say, "OK, I want you to spend this 20 bucks on your self and I want you to spend this 20 bucks on someone else." And then you measure at the end of the day how happy they are. One person is really happy, the other person not so happy. Which one do you think is which? The one who spends it on the other person, but that's not the way our culture is saying things. So we got to get this message out there. I think contemplative practice know this for a long, long time, absolutely. It's a wonderful thing. >> Thanks. >> Yeah. And this is why when His Holiness gave the homework assignment, you know, religion hasn't made it permeate society come up with a secular view. This is where we all need to participate in this homework assignment. Yes >> Committee, let's have this be the last one. >> Really? >> OK. [Inaudible Remarks] >> How about let's do this? How about if we do all five questions and then we'll end but I'll answer them as a whole. OK, so-- [ Laughter ] Yes, so let's have these five questions and-- but you all going to-- we have to have a collective mind here, so we're going track each five, we'll see they're going to be all interrelated in some profound way. Let's see. Here we go. >> That's really good. I'll be happy to see how you do this. >> Me too. [ Laughter ] >> Greetings. I'm Jamie Amery [assumed spelling] and I worked with an organization called Windhorse Community Services and we provide services, home-based services for people suffering from acute mental illness. And basically create villages for folks to get healthy, to get in line with their schedule, with their rhythms of sleep, with their medications and so fort. And one of the things that we've seen is the power of the tendency towards health. >> Yes. >> So, I know we've been talking a lot about that, but specifically in this-- in working with people with mental challenges, if you could talk a bit about the tendency towards health. >> Beautiful, thank you. Yes? I'll remember that one, tendency toward health. Integration is a natural push of a self-organizing system. Yes? >> I was hoping you would say a little something about what it is to understand versus knowing, because you talked more about known and unknowing. >> Absolutely. >> And when you asked us to go back and take the knowing back on the known, I saw there's understanding. But I know you said a lot about vocabulary and how, you have to be very careful. And I don't know if you see those two the same or if that process-- >> Yes. >> -- which you can sense that probability is in fact different. >> Great question, very different and I'm glad you bought that up. Thank you very much. Yes, knowing versus understanding absolutely. Yes. >> Hi. >> Hi. >> And, can you talk a little more about if this process towards integration and self-organization. Is that decentralized process on how it gets articulated. Who are the structure that happening the mind to support that process of integration. >> Absolutely. Yes, we'll cover that. This is the next semester in Neropa. >> Right. >> The concern behind my question is, is really has do to with the health of our planet and the issue that you're raising for me was around self-regulating systems and whether-- or rather complex systems of that have a self-regulating activity and does that mean necessarily that they have mindfulness, so. In other words, does a blady grass which is-- I think is a complex system have mindfulness that couldn't be depressed. And the question that comes up-- >> Yes. Yes, yes. OK great. So we've-- The blady grass question is the last one about this distributive self-organizing element, yes, and the element to this one question. >> So on the same line is nonverbal communication that was talked about earlier. What is you're view on nonsexual touch. Any imports of that for interconnection with us and the world. >> Yes, OK great, great OK thank you. [ Laughter ] This is to Gandhi, OK. All right. So, let's begin with the fundamental issue about the push of organizing systems we have three question related to that, right? We have one question about the natural push towards healing. What's that about? We have another element of that question of integration which is how does a self-organizing system find this processes? Are they distributed? Are they localized? How is that going on? A related question was, where do we put this process? Like is it in a plate of gras and what's going on? We've got those three. Then another one was about knowing versus understanding. And then the fifth one was about touch, right, a nonsexual touch and the value of that in human life. So let's start with the first three and then we'll move on. But to dive into them, let's all just put your arm around you're neighbor and just realize we're going to now dive in this together. So this is doing the last one first and just feel how good that feels and I'm sorry if you're out and if we're still-- are we still streaming? You know, if you're getting this then you hug yourself, actually. Seriously, actually put one hand on your chest then one hand on your abdomen if you're out in the streaming world, and this is actually a pretty good way to hug yourself. So, yeah, it's nonsexual touch. Sadly in our society of legal issues and actual abuse, we have to be super, super, super, super careful about that for sure. I mean, it's just a wild side we live in. But with our friends, we can do what we're doing right now. And with yourself actually this is a great move and I'm trying to get some I'm going to get a PhD on this. Because if you put one hand on your chest and one hand on your abdomen you'll get some comfort, and interestingly if you flip it the other way you'll see it may not be so comfortable and I've done this now on 14,000 people. And what you get with these numbers is you get 75% are right hand of top people are comforted, a quarter of left hand on top, it doesn't seem to relate a left hand or it's right hand on this, so much to get a PhD on this. So any-- No one has figured out why. And the second thing is I did one research study of myself and I'll just have you know that I'm a left hand on to a person. When I do it, my automatic nervous system becomes integrated when I do it this way and when I do it the other way I become unintegrated. And then you do that with the heart rate variability coherence and I had the research director of HeartMath didn't know what I was doing I had him close his eyes and put the gadget on him. I put my right hand on his chest, he was completing unintegrated. Took my right hand off with his formation, he didn't know what I was doing, I put my left hand on his chest, he behaved completely integrated, a second PhD. I'm serious. Go figure it out. Someone will do it because you have a built-in control, right? You know what UI mean? It's a controlled grid. You say, OK do that and now do this. All right, and study the person. OK. So, yes, so the answer to the last question first. Nonsexual touch is great. We don't do enough if we touch each other. That's great. But watch legal issues. And if someone's been abused it's not-- it's a serious thing. So, in psychotherapy for example, super careful, misinterpreting what touch means, I mean, it could be a disaster. So you have to really honor people's boundary. So, so important clinically and in the world too. OK, so now let's do the second to the last question and then we'll get to the first three, which was the knowing versus understanding. So the quality of first person experience is what we're talking about, and one way of describing consciousness is just it's a feeling, if you had this to put a word to it, that I know that you're here and I'm here. I just know it I'm conscious of it. So the simplest way of describing what consciousnesses is, it's knowing not understanding. Understanding would be a point on the rim of intellectual analysis and complex intricate interrelationships among things. Understanding is fabulous, but it's not the same as knowing. Now I totally get where you can put those two words together and I am going to try to think about how to introduce the wheel practice maybe and try to avoid that, although you have your experience then you can see what it's like. So maybe I shouldn't make a big deal out of it. But it's a really good question and thank you for addressing that. In any of these practices, we have to realize when we convey them to some of the words. Words can be interpreted in all sorts of ways and so you really want to explore with people what was that like and then say, "Well I really understood, I understood that." So I give you one little hint from me when I was first learning Mindful awareness, you know, some of the people that taught it to me used the word observe your breath. Just observe your breath. And in the end it turned out to be not such a helpful thing for them to say. They should have said, sense your breath because now we know there are a two circuits in the brain. One is the sensing circuit and one is an observing circuit and they're are very different. The observing circuit is mid line, the sensing circuit is lateralized, this is the work of Farb et al in Toronto. And even in the "Mindful Brain", I suggest there are even two other circuits that haven't been discovered yet. And they all spelled the word sock, I'm an acronym addict, but S-O-C-K. I think there's a sensing circuit, an observing circuit, a conceptualized circuit that conceives, that's the understanding part. And then there's a knowing in terms of this deep sense of knowing something. And that might be the same as sensing or not, we don't know, but that's-- I think there's actually four and then I think what mindfulness does is it differentiate those four and then links them. So thank you for the question about knowing versus understanding. Now, that being said, the presence that arises from getting in touch with this pure knowing and I say pure meaning, if you think about our model, when you can drop to the open plain of possibility and there's a model by Rodolfo Llinas of the 40 cycle per second loop, if you're talking about the brain between the thalamus and the cortex. Now what I think when that happens in mindfulness practice is that you have this-- let's just use Llinas' model, you have this constant 40 cycles per second going. So someone who's mindfully aware of something has a higher ratio of however the nervous system is mediating this open plane of possibility. Let's say just to make numbers easy, you've got 40 units of something. So if I'm mindfully aware of something, I might have, you know, 28 units of this open plane and I've got 12 of what I'm seeing. So, I'm knowing and seeing with the sense of spaciousness. Or I could get lost in the seeing and have one unit of consciousness knowing and 39 of the seeing and Mike Csikszentmihalyi, would call that flow. That I know I'm seeing something but I am not thinking I know it. I just am in it. So I'm playing tennis, I'm just playing tennis. So, mindfulness I don't think is the same things as flow, there's a big debate about that. I don't think it's the same. I think you need to have both sensing and observing and probably these other things too. But from a ratio point of view, there's way of scientifically to tap into it. Because clearly you can have 40 units of knowing and that's this kind of thing where you can sort of bliss out, where you aren't connected to your body and you just feel this kind of expansiveness. It's fantastic, but you got to live in the world. When you see a red light, you got to press on the breaks. So you can't just live in the hub all the time. So I think a strong mind literally differentiates knowing from known and knows how to balance the ratio of the peaks, the plateaus and, the plane. And the other way to say it is, it knows how to balance what's on the rim and what's on the hub, does that make sense? And you do it in different ways. If you're making love with someone, you want to be mostly up on a rim and really floating in that. And that's beautiful and that's great, you know, you don't want to be lost in other the parts of the rim, you know what I am talking about. So, I hope. So you want to sense the experience of lovemaking not just observe it. That's one of the risks. That's one of the risks of mindfulness practice is that people only develop the observing capacity. You know, and they're just kind of not really in life and you talk to them and you go, doesn't that person feel anything and they're just going to say, I'm just really mindful. So, you know, you got to be able to be in it. Now, we're segueing to the first three. So the questions were, why does-- why is there a push for health? How is this thing integrated and does it take place in a blade of grass. So let's start with the grass thing first. You know, I had an amazing conversation with one of the people who is a disciple of or-- I don't even know if he's a disciple. He was a follower of-- in terms of taking his place in Paris, Francisco Varela who I know was part of the founding of Naropa Institute. And Francisco suddenly died a little bit about 10 years ago now, a little about 10 years ago. And so Francisco had this view which this fellow and I were talking about which is that the mind existed in an amoeba. And that as long as there were these fundamental processes happening inside of a cell that you had to attribute mental processes to them. So, you know, I had a three-hour dinner over a lot of pasta and wine when used to be glutton to talk about this because I said, that doesn't really make sense, why would an amoeba have a mind. But at the end after all that wine and past, he convinced me that Francisco was really on to something. So, in that case you would put a mind I think in a blade of grass too. And you would talk about this self-organizing capacity of the blade of grass constrained of course by the DNA that makes it a blade of grass and not a chimpanzee, or a monkey, or a frog, or something. So we live within this constraints, there are internal constraints that govern certain variables of the system. We're not all the same. And the complexity that's achievable by a human is much greater, and I'm not trying to play favorites towards species, but because we have so many variations and epigenetic controls and the way neuroplasticity unfolds even more than chimps. Even though we share 98% of our DNA, we've got just a lot more capacity for this going on. Now, that doesn't make us better than a blade of grass. It just makes different. It means we probably can't ask a blade of grass to transform its identity. I don't think and I'm not trying to put down the blade of grass, it's just different. We have to really own that there is these different constraints over different bodies. Now, that being said, coming to the other two questions, it's a really interesting issue and just to highlight the important things about self organization. Self organization does not require a conductor. So I don't know if you want to take time to do it, but if you can imagine there are choir up here, you know, singing. But do we have time to do a choir, example? Does anyone sing in a choir would be willing to sing in front of the camera. OK, no. All right, so imagine if a choir up here, right? And we did this thing where they-- we're going to make them not connect with each other. So they plug their ears really tight and just belted out a song. That would reveal the chaos or cacophony of unlinked parts of the system. Well, let's say 10 choir singers or you have them sing the same note the same way for three hours. Boring is anything completely rigid. But then, what I do in the example is, these are choir singers let's say, sing a song together and I leave. So I'm not going to conduct them. This 10 person self-organizing system gets together and so far now, I've done this many, many times, 75% of the time, they pick Amazing Grace. And Amazing Grace is actually thought to be the most harmonic song in the western canon of songs. And then they sing Amazing Grace and imagine a choir singing this Amazing Grace. And every one gets chills and feels the harmony of the integration. Why is it integrated? Because they're differentiating they're voices in harmonic intervals but they're linking by singing the same song. So the bottom line is there was no conductor. I just say to them sing a song together and I take off. And the point of that is to allow a system to have its natural self organization movement. So in terms of-- we did the blade of grass question, turn to the question about the distribution of this, there are all these systems and subsystems. So we want to start with the first system which is the inner sense of me, the node that you live in. If people are not integrated that way, it's going to be harder for them, there's a natural push, here is the secret to that last part of the question. There's a natural push towards this integration, because a self organizing system wants to move to link differentiated parts, that's what it wants to do, but junk gets in the way, whether that's genetically something you've inherited, an affection you went through, head trauma you experienced or, you know, trauma you experienced it does not-- it's not a-- it can be what parents did, it can also be not what parents did and just something you happen to have to happen. So you have to make sure this is not about parent bashing, but it is about integration. So that's a natural push and part of what therapy does and maybe the organization that you're talking about does this is to create the conditions to permit the blockages to differentiation and/or linkage to be removed and then to allow the natural outcome to unfold. You know, Mark was telling me earlier on about the study that just came out of an African grey, the parrots, when they live by themselves they live 20, with a person, they live 20 years. When they have another parrot with them, they live 80 years and the enzyme that improves the maintenance and repair of their-- ends of their chromosome telomeres is higher when they're living with other parrots. And this is interesting because Elizabeth Blackburn who won Nobel Prize for discovering telomeres and telomerase, she did a study with Elissa Epel showing that one of the best predictors of your telomerase levels is presence. Presence is how you're aware of what's happening when it's happening without letting judgments distort your perceptual experience. You're just there, presence. So with Elissa Epel and I did with two of my interns, Ben Nelson and Suzanne Parker, we wrote up this chapter to say, why does presence they do improve relationships and improve telomerase, and the only way the four of us can answer that was to talk about the wheel of awareness, to talk about the plane of possibility and to use that as a model to show how the integrative states that arise from that plane, where presence comes from because here is the way I think about it, presence is the portal for integration to emerge. And then when you realize that then you say OK, that's why integration within the body raises telomerase levels, it improves the immune system, it shifts your brains to an approach state rather than withdraw state, these are all the findings from mindfulness training and it also, this is controversial but it's not just about Fredgerson's [assumed spelling] study, but other studies that show even after a day doing mindfulness practice those epigenetic controls on your immune system that is part that's fighting inflammation, that area is optimized with presence. So this is where you see energy information flow is happening within you and your body improving telomerase levels, epigenetic controls, again some inflammation, immune system functioning, as well cardiovascular and all that stuff, but also it's improving relation of things. So getting back to the parrots, the natural state for a social being is to elevate states of what's called complexity, this-- elevate your state of integration by being with other beings. So if you're a parrot just hanging around with this goofy human being, you're not doing what your DNA has urged you to do, which is to be a part of a system. You know, in our neighborhood we have this parrot that fly around it must have escaped somewhere, but now they're in a whole group of parrots and they have a lot of fun, they're very inspiring, because they do things together as a flock. I'm sure they have a differentiates set of interests and I hope they're differentiating that way so they can link and as a truly integrated flock, I don't know I didn't talk to them, but this is the issue of the telomerase for those parrots, we would be able to predict that. The same things through with our society and this combines all those three questions together, whether it's the blade of grass and self-organization or distribute to nature. We want to see self organization happen within us and between us. We want to see integration within and between, it isn't just one place to the other. It's happening in the node that is your body and the linkages between you that makes the whole system interconnected, a system is nodes and their interconnectedness. The self is the system, but each component of the system like what's called fractals, you know, each reflects these larger things, so we want to work at both levels. We want to work internally with contemplative practice and we want to work relationally, and together releasing those self-organization but restores integration is going to give you self compassion inside and interpersonal and planetary compassion in the betweenness. And that's the promise for all of us in doing the work together. So thank you very, very much for your attention. [ Applause ] [ Music ]
B1 中級 美國腔 醫學博士丹-西格爾的 "心智和神經整合" ("Mindsight and Neural Integration" with Dan Siegel, MD) 18 0 Susan Chang 發佈於 2021 年 01 月 14 日 更多分享 分享 收藏 回報 影片單字