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  • Hey, it's Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business

  • and life you love.

  • If you or anyone you know has ever struggled with sadness or loss or depression, my guest

  • today is here to share an enlightening perspective on its deeper meaning in our lives.

  • Marianne Williamson is an internationally acclaimed spiritual author and lecturer.

  • Marianne has been a popular guest on shows like Oprah, Larry King Live, Good Morning

  • America, Charlie Rose, and Bill Maher.

  • Six of her eleven published books have been New York Times Bestsellers.

  • The mega-bestseller, A Return to Love, is considered a must read.

  • Marianne's other books include The Law of Divine Compensation, The Age of Miracles,

  • Everyday Grace, A Woman's Worth, Illuminata, Healing the Soul of America, A Course in Weight

  • Loss, The Gift of Change, and A Year of Miracles.

  • Her newest book, Tears to Triumph: The Spiritual Journey from Suffering to Enlightenment, is

  • available now.

  • Marianne is a native of Houston, Texas and is the founder of Project Angel Food, a meals

  • on wheels program that serves homebound people with AIDS in the Los Angeles area.

  • To date, Project Angel Food has served over 10 million meals.

  • Marianne also co-founded The Peace Alliance and serves on the board of The Results Organization,

  • working to end the worst ravages of hunger and poverty throughout the world.

  • Marianne, thank you so much for making time to be here.

  • Thank you for having me.

  • I want to acknowledge, once again, I know you've been on the show before and we only

  • did audio because we had some challenges with the video.

  • But thank you for the work that you do in the world.

  • Right back at you.

  • I've told you this

  • Thank you.

  • ...it justit always makes such a difference to me and I'm always so excited when you

  • have a new book coming out, which today

  • It's an honor when you say that.

  • Thank you.

  • Tears to Triumph.

  • Read the full thing.

  • It is extraordinary.

  • Thank you.

  • You've been counseling people for over 30 years

  • Yes.

  • ...in some very serious situations.

  • Indeed.

  • You've also had dark nights of the soul yourself.

  • Tell us about what inspired you to write this book now.

  • Well, actually, why I decided to write the book, I ran for Congress a couple of years

  • ago.

  • And after the election, a few days afterwards, I was being interviewed by Maria Shriver and

  • she asked me if I was sad.

  • And I said, “No, I'm not sad.”

  • She said, “Really?

  • You're not sad at all?”

  • I said, “No, you know, somebodyyou don't go into a political election knowing you're

  • going to win.

  • Somebody's going to win, somebody's going to lose.

  • So I'm not sad, I'm… whatever.”

  • She said, “Really?

  • You're not just a little bit sad?”

  • She said, “I had a cousin who ran for Congress and lost and it was just devastating for him

  • for a long time.”

  • And I just

  • No, it's not sad.”

  • And then about 2 or 3 days later I think, I was actually sitting in my apartment and

  • it was like a black wave, huge wave, was coming at me like a tsunami.

  • And I knew it.

  • There was no mistaking it.

  • And I had been through it once, very, very terrible time in my life, a tragic time in

  • my life decades before.

  • But also, we all go through our dark nights of the soul.

  • And I think also, suffering gives you x-ray vision into other people's sufferings.

  • So, for instance, like when you were talking about my work.

  • My career began right smack dab in the middle of the AIDS crisis.

  • And so from the very beginning of my work, applying these principles in the lives of

  • people in often catastrophic situations has been core to my experience.

  • Now, what I have seen though in the last few years, what we've all seen, is that it's

  • almost like we've begun to make being deeply sad wrong.

  • Something has happened in our society where what I think of as a normal spectrum of human

  • suffering, if you take a risk and really put yourself into it and many people back you

  • and support you and then you fall flat on your face, of course you're going to be depressed

  • about this for a while.

  • If you are diagnosed with a serious disease, of course you're going to be depressed about

  • this for a while.

  • If you go through a painful divorce, of course you're going to be in pain for a while.

  • But those pains are not a mental illness.

  • And what I've seen in the last few years is so many people who are on antidepressants,

  • who are on pharmaceuticals when if you ask them why, describe situations that are depressing

  • but in a way that is part of life.

  • And this is particularly disturbing and I think all of us should be very aware of this.

  • The FDA itself has warned, and does warn, for people 25 and younger, antidepressants

  • can increase, not decrease, the suicide risk.

  • We have huge increase in suicides, we also have huge increase in antidepressant use.

  • So I don't see the causal relationship.

  • I'm not saying there's a causal relationship between taking them and committing suicide,

  • but neither am I saying that we've proven that there's a causal relationship between

  • taking them and not.

  • So I think there's been a pathologizing of normal human suffering that is very unhealthy

  • in my experience and in the experience of many people that I've worked with and spoken

  • to.

  • A dark night of the soul is some of the most transformative times that we go through in

  • our lives.

  • They are sacred initiations.

  • You learn things.

  • That's what's so painful.

  • What's so painful is you have to look at things that are so painful to look at.

  • You have to look at your failure, you have to look at your part in your own disasters.

  • You have to look at your own mortality, you have to grieve the loss of a loved one or

  • the loss of a marriage or a love affair.

  • But I think that the psyche has an immune system just like the body does.

  • If you're in a car accident, you go through something and it's understood it's gonna

  • take a while to heal.

  • Your body is bruised.

  • And we often feel, everybody knows this, you know, you go through a rough time and you

  • feel like you're bruised emotionally because you are.

  • But humanity would not have evolved over the last however many thousands, hundreds of thousands

  • of years were we not imbued with the capacity to take a hit.

  • And that's true not only physically, but also emotionally and psychologically.

  • Catastrophes didn't just start happening.

  • Heartbreak didn't just start happening.

  • Grief didn't just start happening.

  • And in our really arrogance, the modern mind has decided that it can do better than certain

  • natural systems.

  • And we know with our bodies to work with your immune system, and yet with a lot of the over

  • medication that's applied in America today, we're trying to sort of override the immune

  • system.

  • And the psychic immune system, much like the physical immune system, involves taking time.

  • You're gonna be sad for a while.

  • You're gonna be depressed for a while.

  • A lot of people say, “Oh, no, you know, Williamson, you know, don't tread there.

  • This is a physical disease.

  • We see there's a chemical imbalance in depression.”

  • But I ask you, do you know anyone who has been clinically diagnosed as depressed that

  • they gave a blood test to or some kind of brain test to see all this chemical change

  • in their brain?

  • No.

  • Clinicalthe diagnosis of clinical depression is a questionnaire.

  • And when you look at that questionnaire, I don't know anybody who can't look at some

  • of those and go, “Yes, I've been there.”

  • Yes.

  • So I think that it's extremely important that we not stay to a corner of thinking.

  • Look, I have as much respect for biomedical research as anyone does.

  • I'm not sayingand I'm not saying that there's no place for psychotherapeutic drugs,

  • bipolar situations, schizophrenia, and so forth, but not within the spectrum of normal

  • human suffering that we've begun to pathologize in this country.

  • And so I think that if I'm talking to a therapist or a doctor who does not factor

  • the soul into their calculation and I think that it's a soul disease, it's a spiritual

  • disease, whothey're saying what am I to tread on medical ground?

  • I'm challenging the assertion that this is medical ground and who are you to tread

  • on spiritual ground?

  • This is an ancient malady called the dark night of the soul.

  • And if you look, the three spiritual traditions that I looked at in the book: Buddha, the

  • story of Moses and the exodus, and Jesus.

  • They, like all great religious and spiritual systems, have the issue of human suffering

  • at their core.

  • Buddha said life is suffering.

  • That's the essence of suffering.

  • He says that is what I teach, that life is suffering, and I teach the cessation of suffering

  • through the realization, he said, that the things of this world can only bring temporary

  • happiness.

  • Well, you and I live in a culture that says if we're unhappy, we need to get this or

  • get that or get that or get that.

  • Buddha says the very fact you think you need this to make you happy is your setup for despair.

  • And then in the story of the exodus, the whole point is that God sent Moses to deliver the

  • Israelites from their suffering as slaves, and the suffering of the Israelites in their

  • journey to the promised land.

  • And then, of course, the suffering of Jesus on the cross.

  • So it's not like the spiritual traditions don't have anything to add.

  • And so I wanted to write a book where people might feel, hopefully will feel, some guidance

  • and some illumination as to how to navigate these times, not to run away from these times.

  • You know, somebody was telling me the other day that buffalos when they see a storm coming,

  • they don't turn around.

  • They run right into it.

  • That they know that that's… and I heard that before I wrote the book or I would've

  • put it in.

  • That they know that the best way to get through it is to go right into it.

  • And I think there are certain times in life, and I felt that with this last one in my life.

  • This is coming.

  • This isthis isthis couldn't be avoided no matter what.

  • You're gonna have to look at this, you're gonna have to do some deep forgiveness of

  • yourself and others and taking responsibility in all those things or else you will come

  • out of this more, do they say, bitter rather than better.

  • Yeah.

  • You know, cramped rather than expanded.

  • And I think when you're younger, one of the things that's so disturbing to me about

  • this with young people is not only the physical aspect, which is that 25 and younger antidepressants

  • increase, can increase the risk of suicide, the FDA has said this.

  • It's written in a little black box, but nobody talks about it.

  • But I think the 20s are hard.

  • Yes.

  • I mean, it's justit's hard.

  • So in young people being depressed is like, yeah, honey, this is called becoming who you

  • are.

  • And then in older people you're depressed because of who you've become.

  • So, you know, on both sides it's like the dark days are part of the natural order and

  • transformative process I think.

  • So I can even hear someone in the audience saying, “Oh, Marianne, this sounds amazing

  • but I actually am on antidepressants right now.”

  • What would you say to them?

  • Oh, thank you for mentioning that because I think it's so important.

  • I am not a medical doctor and I would never suggest with any pharmaceutical that you just

  • go throw it in the wastebasket.

  • My whole point is we should be far more sober about how we get on them and we should certainly

  • be sober about how we get off.

  • So if anybody is feeling with this conversation that is articulated not just by me but by

  • others as well, and do feel that they would like to move away from pharmaceutical treatment

  • of their depression, obviously you should only do this under the supervision of a doctor

  • who tells you how best to do that.

  • So according to many experts, you know, clinical depression is being alarmingly overdiagnosed

  • and overtreated.

  • Why do you think that our suffering has become such a profit center?

  • Surely you don't reallyyou're not really without the answer.

  • Any of us who think about this are with the answer.

  • It's what I call the psychotherapeutic pharmacological industrial complex.

  • Yes.

  • We're talking about billions of dollars here.

  • Another one that you hear a lot is a lot of young women, girls even, who are not even

  • in theirnot even sexually active yet taking birth control pills to, quote on quote, regulate

  • their hormones.

  • What is this regulate your hormones?

  • Nature has been regulating our hormones for hundreds of thousands of years.

  • Yeah.

  • What is going on here?

  • Another thing I find interesting in terms of our community, Marie, is there's so many

  • people who don't want to touch gluten, don't wanna putooh, I wouldn't want those

  • chemicals in my gut, who don't seem to transfer that into chemicals in your brain so casually.

  • Yeah.

  • What is that about?

  • And you have something else in the book that is really interesting and I… you say the

  • place

  • That which is placed on the altar is altered.”

  • Yeah.

  • And a prayer for a miracle is not a request that the situation be different, but a request

  • that we see it differently.”

  • Right.

  • And then I love that you also juxtaposed that with, you know, for someone who is in deep

  • pain right now, because there will be people watching who are very hopeful and you say,

  • you know, when your spouse has left you after 25 years, where's the miracle in that?

  • When your child has died from a drug overdose, where's the miracle of that?

  • Right.

  • What is your response, this idea that what you place on the altar will be altered?

  • And when they're feeling that deep…?

  • First of all, I think we need to recognize that if someone you love has died or a painful

  • divorce or anything along that line, of course you're sad.

  • You're sad because you're human.

  • So the goal shouldn't be to just flatline our emotions.

  • That's the first thing.

  • To know

  • I know when I was young, grief was more permitted.

  • There was more emotional permission for grief.

  • People would wearimmediate family members would wear black for a year

  • now, you know, we all wear black all time, but this was before.

  • And even Jews still, you take a piece of black material, cloth, and you wear it.

  • And in [inaudible], the Jewish book of wisdom, it actually talks about how during the first

  • year after the death of an immediate family member, the widow or widower or parent or

  • child is allowed to leave the meal duringleave the dinner during the meal.

  • In other words, there were societal prescriptions, which is extremely important because if you

  • allow your grief, then when it ends it ends.

  • And if you don't allow it or you suppress it, it's gonna bite you.

  • So that's the first thing, to know that this is a painful time but it will pass.

  • That's but it will pass.

  • And that's where the religion comes in or when I say religion I'm not talking about

  • exoteric dogma, doctrine, institution, organized.

  • I'm talking about the genuine religious experience.

  • And that is where you're talking about putting something on the altar.

  • The altar is in the mind.

  • When you put something on the altar you're saying, “I am willing for this situation

  • to be reinterpreted,” by the Holy Spirit or whatever name you give to thosethat

  • internal guidance system, which is not of this world.

  • So, once again, spiritual disease, spiritual solution.

  • Spiritual solution means coming not from an external source but from an internal source.

  • And from an internal source that is beyond your own.

  • So someone has died.

  • It's the difference between I am grieving, life is over, I will never see them again,

  • physical death is the end, which is a torment that never ends, versus this being with them

  • in physical incarnation is over, that my grief is understandable.

  • This is not a sign of a lack of mental health, it's a sign of love.

  • That the book of life never ends.

  • A chapter has ended.

  • Physical death is not the ending but a continuation.

  • I will see them again.

  • I have more to do while I'm here.

  • They're still here.

  • Death does not exist.

  • What God created cannot be uncreated.

  • They're still broadcasting, my set just doesn't pick that up.

  • I still grieve during the season of my grief, but with a peace, not barbed wire, around

  • my heart.

  • Same with a divorce.

  • A Course in Miracles says relationships never end, they're of the mind.

  • The form of the relationship has ended.

  • Physical proximity is no longer the container, but the relationship ends.

  • Also, if I remain bitter, I will not be able to move on with my life.

  • If I have anger I will not be able to move on in my life.

  • If I do not forgive myself and that other person, I will not be able to move on in my

  • life.

  • So during my tears, during my grief, while I get rid of this heartache, I have work to

  • do, which is to look deeply at my own part in this, own it, apologize where I need to

  • apologize, make amends, and make changes within yourself.

  • Otherwise you will just re-enact the situation.

  • So these are things you put on the altar.

  • I put on the altar my anger.

  • I put on the altar my sense that I'm a victim here.

  • I put on my altar my belief that death is the end.

  • I put on the altar my attack thoughts.

  • I put on the altar my resentment.

  • I put on the altar my sense of failure.

  • I put on the altar my sense that nothing will never be good again, I will never be loved

  • again, I will never have a great job again, I will never have a chance.

  • I put on the altar the idea that I'm too old, that I'm done with, or whatever.

  • Yeah.

  • And so that's what I mean by these periods being sacred times where deep work is being

  • done.

  • And sometimes on one hand,  you know, those sleepless nights, some of the things you can

  • more easily shoo away during the day, those demons you can distract yourself from, they're

  • there at night.

  • They come out of their caves at night and, yes, it's painful and, yes, you don't sleep.

  • But that's part of the process because they must be stared down.

  • They must be transformed or else they'll just go underground and they will find subconscious

  • ways to punish you.

  • But if you recognize what they comeyou know, psychic pain brings a message just like

  • physical pain does.

  • And you have to heed that physical pain.

  • If you have a broken leg you don't just take morphine, you have to reset the leg.

  • And if you have psychic pain we have to reset our thinking in order to reset our emotions.

  • Then you can move forward from a better place, as a better person, a person ennobled by the

  • experience, with a heart more open.

  • And also another blessing that can come, I was talking before about how you have x-ray

  • vision into the suffering of others.

  • You have more mercy and more sensitivity towards the pain of others.

  • One of the negative consequences about not experiencing fully our pain, being sensitive

  • enough to our own pain, is that it makes us less sensitive to the pain of others and that

  • is never a good thing.

  • And also I think when you win your depression, your pain, is that you feel you messed up

  • in life, sometimes that's when you really do come to understand the word mercy.

  • Because the universe is gonna give you another chance.

  • The universe is like a GPS.

  • Took a wrong turn, it's just gonna recalibrate.

  • And I think that when you have felt God's mercy on you, you learn to be more merciful

  • towards others.

  • Sometimes I'll be about to judge somebody and then I'll remind myself I've done

  • so much worse, so just stop right there.

  • So I have a question that I think many folks in our audience can identify with.

  • I know I certainly have experienced this at times, where on the surface life actually

  • looks pretty good and no tragic loss has actually occurred.

  • No divorce, no disease, yet we can feel like a cloud has come over us and we feel depressed

  • and I know for conversations I've had personally it's like wait, I shouldn't be depressed.

  • I should be so grateful.

  • We're aware of the suffering in other parts of this country and the world, people that

  • have it so much worse off than us.

  • How can I feel so dark and depressed right now?

  • I'm curious what you would say.

  • Well, look at what you just said.

  • I have everything.

  • I mean, I know other people are suffering, but I should be happy.

  • No, you shouldn't be happy if other people are suffering.

  • That's kind of the point.

  • You know, the whole notion in Buddhism is praying for happiness for all sentient beings.

  • That's kind of the point today that, you know, if somebody has their head chopped off

  • in Iraq but it's on your computer, you could be in Idaho.

  • You're gonna be depressed that day.

  • While you and I are talking, a plane crashed yesterday, they think it was terrorism.

  • To really own what has happened, what that invasion of Iraq set off.

  • If you're looking at the world today and you're not grieving, I don't think you're

  • looking.

  • And the fact that so many people seem to be looking at the world today and not grieving

  • is not a sign of mental health.

  • The fact that you have yours, you know, it's like Buddha said.

  • Material things can bring only temporary happiness at best.

  • So the fact sometimes that we're sad is a sign that we're sensitive human beings.

  • Paul Hawken has that expression blessed unrest.

  • Look at the state of the planet that if we don't turn this thing around the whole ecosystem

  • could implode within 20 years.

  • All theall the nuclear bombs that we not only have but keep building.

  • The terrible problem we have with terrorism and ISIL and anybody who looks at it from

  • a rational perspective knows there's no easy answer here.

  • The terrible inequities in the world?

  • And that contrasted with the fact that it could all be so beautiful.

  • That's tragic, that's poignant.

  • The fact that you feel that doesn't mean something's wrong with you.

  • You know, I tell a story in the book about a troop of chimpanzees in Africa and how some

  • anthropologists found that there was a small core part of the population of chimpanzees

  • in this chimp village called a troop that seemed to display depressed behavior.

  • They didn't eat with the rest of the chimps, they didn't play with the rest of the chimps,

  • they didn't sleep with the rest of the chimps.

  • So these anthropologists thought that was very interesting because it seemed to mirror

  • the human population.

  • So what they did was they took the so called depressed chimps away for 6 months and then

  • they came back to the chimpanzee village, the troop, to see what the effect was of taking

  • all those chimps away, the depressed chimps.

  • You know, and I've asked audiences all over, what do you think they found?

  • Now, you've read the book so you know what they found.

  • But most people say, the answer I usually hear, is, “Well, more of the chimp troop,

  • more had become depressed.”

  • What they found was that the whole chimpanzee troop was dead.

  • And what they concluded from that was that the quote on quote depressed chimps were their

  • early warning system.

  • They were the chimps who could discern that snakes were coming or elephants were coming

  • or stormclouds were coming or earthquakes were coming or tornadoes were coming.

  • And so the rest of the chimps saw, oh, they're depressed.

  • We'd better take cover or whatever.

  • So what we have in the society today, the fact that people are depressed means something

  • is wrong, something is off.

  • And so it's like we're the canaries in the gold minein the coal mine, but what

  • the system is saying is that there's something wrong with the canaries.

  • There's nothing wrong with the canaries.

  • And our suffering should be more than just, you know, a profit center for gold manufacturers.

  • Sofor drug manufacturers.

  • So I think that it's very important that we look at our modern civilization and realize

  • how the very organizing principles that dominate life in the modern world repudiate our spiritual

  • nature.

  • Those principles posit us as separate rather than one.

  • They posit short term economic gain as more important than the building of community,

  • than the fostering of real care for each other, for our children.

  • They make everything external seem more important than that which is internal.

  • They have us like hamsters on a wheel always going after those things saying that those

  • things will bring us happiness, and the fact that they don't bring us happiness just means

  • that they can't fundamentally and permanently.

  • So for us to recognize what is deeply wrong both in our own individual lives and in the

  • whole world then awakens us to what we need to do to change it

  • Let's talk about the wisest question we can ask when we are deeply sad.

  • You said how can I…?

  • It's not how can I end or numb this pain immediately?

  • What is the meaning of this pain?

  • What does this pain reveal to me?

  • What is it calling to me to understand?

  • I loved this because it gives us a tool to start to, I think, reset our thinking.

  • Someone

  • I've lost a sister, I've lost both parents, I've lost my best friend.

  • I learned that life is short.

  • I learned don't waste time on unimportant things.

  • I remember at my sister's deathbed I was sitting there, she had a couple of days to

  • live, she was sitting up.

  • My brother was at the end of the bed, I was sitting there, and I was overcome with this

  • realization that we sort of forgot to do the sibling thing.

  • We didn't…

  • like, we had intimated a brother and brother and 2 sisters.

  • Now, if I called my sister a year before, 2 years before, 3 years before and said, “Why

  • don't you and Peter and I have dinner?” she would've said, “Why?

  • I have children, Marianne, I don't have time to just go out to dinner with you guys,”

  • because we were all busy.

  • And I just got it.

  • I got thisthere was something that we forgot to experience fully.

  • I said when my sister died that my grief wasn't that I didn't know her longer, it was that

  • I didn't know her better.

  • Yes, she died young, but that mentality I don't think I would've known her any better.

  • And itin my life it took the loss of a best friend, it took the loss of a sister

  • to feel more deeply.

  • This thing isdon't waste time.

  • Don't waste time in loving people.

  • And also my parents, and this happens for most of us as we get older, it's very transformative

  • that, you know, you'rethere's a way you're not on center stage as long as even

  • one parent is alive.

  • At the end of relationships, heartache at the end of relationship.

  • I've never been in one and I've never seen one where it was all one person's issue.

  • Where do you become wiser?

  • What was my part?

  • Where did I not give?

  • You know, we live in a society today where people are always saying to you about relationships,

  • Are you getting what you need?”

  • Rather than, rather than, “Are you giving all you have?”

  • So we are sometimes in the guise of people with the best of intentions and even your

  • support and your counselor, could you be a little more narcissistic here?

  • Or could you be a little more self centered here?

  • Could you make it any more about you here?

  • But really, really focus on how other people are doing it wrong and, you know, their issues

  • and why did you attract someone like that as opposed to their therapist is probably

  • asking them why they attracted you.

  • So those things are wisdom and theythey come from experience and sometimes from very

  • painful experiences.

  • And then you're better and then you're different.

  • And then you're ready to move forward in life not reenacting the same old same old,

  • having a more expanded life because your heart and mind have been expanded.

  • What are the spiritual principles that deliver us from our pain and how can we apply them?

  • First of all, the realization that love is real and nothing else exists.

  • That love is all that matters.

  • That ifthat forgiveness is the key to happiness and if you don't forgivelove

  • works miracles.

  • Love is who you are.

  • You can't be comfortable in your skin when you're not standing in the space of who

  • you are.

  • Who you are is love.

  • If I'm withholding love, if I'm not rising to the occasion, if I'm not practicing mercy,

  • compassion, and forgiveness, I can't be happy.

  • And so when you said some people say I should be happy, you know, you could live in a palace

  • but if you're attacking other people, holding onto resentments and grievances, if you're

  • living in the past or the future rather than being present, you can't be happy.

  • That's the joke of our society is telling you that you should be and then you feel something's

  • wrong with you if you're not and you're told you have a disorder.

  • That's the big thing now, everybody has a disorder, a depressive disorder, an anxiety

  • disorder.

  • And I'm not being glib here, but our entire civilization is an anxiety disorder.

  • Who's not?

  • Kind of like empath.

  • And I say this, you know, some people feel I'm insensitive.

  • You know, I read the book and that's lovely, but who's not?

  • Who's not deeply sensitive at their core?

  • Who's not deeply empathic at their core?

  • So this is something that we get questions on a lot too and I'm sure it'll come up

  • from this interview.

  • When you have someone that you know and that you love and they're grieving and they're

  • experiencing a really hard time.

  • From a spiritual perspective, how can we genuinely support those that we love when we know this

  • is something they're going through?

  • You know, I used to joke that I knew the inventory at every gift shop at every hospital in Los

  • Angeles because I was so loathed to go upstairs.

  • I was scared.

  • Like, what am I gonna say?

  • What am I gonna do?

  • Until I realized just be present.

  • It's not what you're gonna say or whatit's that you're going.

  • And then also I learned being around people who were dying, they're gonna minister to

  • you every bit as much as you're going to minister to them.

  • So it's a gift to you as much as to them.

  • Jews and Catholics have ancient traditions.

  • They're told what to do.

  • Catholicism and Judaism really has it down.

  • Jews: women start cooking, the men sit shiva.

  • Catholicism also has a lot of ritual ceremony.

  • A lot of Protestants kind of stand around and don't know what to do.

  • And so this is one of the ways where if you were part of an ancient religion or tradition

  • you're really served by being told what to do.

  • The ceremony to participate in and so forth.

  • Sometimes you'll say to somebody, “Did you go to the funeral?”

  • And you'll hear somebody say, “No, you know, I'm grieving in my own way.”

  • And I wanna slap them and say, “It's not about you.”

  • It's his wife or her husband and the children and they're gonna see that people are there

  • and people care.

  • Just be there.

  • You know, we're women, we know about that.

  • You know, you're going through something, you call a friend.

  • Will you come over?”

  • Yes.

  • Just come over.

  • Just be with me.

  • Be there.

  • You know, just be with me.

  • Sometimes I… well, sometimes people will just say

  • I've been with people, let's say somebody just lost her husband and I'm with another

  • friend and afterwards I'll say, “I'm surprised you didn't mention it.”

  • And they'll say, “Well, I didn't wanna bring it up.”

  • As though she's not thinking about it!

  • It can be so meaningful when people say, “I'm really sorry.

  • I heard about your loss.”

  • Just be there.

  • There's nothing fancy to do but to say that you care.

  • You know, in my life when I've been through things, even like we were talking about the

  • congressional campaign, which I'm not in any way comparing to the loss of a loved one.

  • But it was so nice, I'd just be walking down the street and someone saying, “I voted

  • for you and I'm really sorry.

  • I'm really sorry that you lost.”

  • And it would justthere's nothing like people just saying that they care.

  • But we'rewe need to be proactive around sad things.

  • Don't try to help people distract themselves from their sadness.

  • Join with them in a moment of empathy.

  • Would you be open if we closed with a beautiful prayer from the book?

  • Thank you.

  • I'm honored that you call it beautiful.

  • And you picked one out here.

  • I did.

  • It was one that actually brought me to tears...

  • Thank you, Marie.

  • ...when I first read it.

  • There's a lot in the book that I think everyone should read, but this one in particular.

  • Thank you.

  • Yeah.

  • Dear God, I surrender to you the pain that is in my heart.

  • I give to you my failure, my shame, my loss, my devastation.

  • I know that in you, dear God, all darkness is turned to light.

  • Pour forth your spirit upon my mind and help me to forgive my past.

  • Make my life begin again.

  • Restore my soul and bring me peace.

  • Comfort me in this painful hour that I might see again my innocence and good.

  • I have fallen, dear God, and I feel I cannot rise.

  • Please lift me up and give me strength.

  • Set my feet upon the path to peace and help me not to stray again.

  • I pray for forgiveness.

  • I'm crushed by my failure.

  • Please show me who I am to you that self hate shall not defeat me.

  • Help me remember and reclaim my good.

  • Help me become who you would have me be and live the life you would have me live that

  • my tears shall be no more.

  • Amen.

  • You are a legend.

  • Right back at you.

  • You're not quite a legend yet because you're not old enough, but you are already such a

  • bright light on the planet.

  • You're one of those first name people, Marie.

  • I adore you.

  • Thank you so much

  • I adore you too.

  • ...for your work, for coming on the show, and for continuing to do everything that you

  • do.

  • Thank you, Marie.

  • I love you.

  • I love you too.

  • God bless you, honey.

  • Now Marianne and I would love to hear from you.

  • What's the biggest insight that you're taking away from this conversation and how

  • can you turn that insight into action in your own life?

  • Now, as always, the best conversations happen at MarieForleo.com, so go there and leave

  • a comment now.

  • Now, when you're there be sure to sign up and become an MF insider.

  • Not only will you get a powerful audio called How to Get Anything You Want, but you'll

  • also get access to exclusive content and giveaways and insider updates that I just don't share

  • anywhere else.

  • Stay on your game and keep going for your dreams because the world needs that special

  • gift that only you have.

  • Thank you so much for watching and I'll catch you next time on MarieTV.

Hey, it's Marie Forleo and you are watching MarieTV, the place to be to create a business

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